Constant verbal castration
Question:
water constantly dripping on stone cuts the stone…emotional abuse is insiduous like the dripping water. Over time, it erodes your selfesteem, selfconfidence, even your heart and soul are ripped apart. It may be subtle (little putdowns) or overt (calling you names, cursing, screaming at you constantly) but its very effective for the controller to put you under their power. Dont’ expect miracles. It took time to get to this stage of powerlessness, it will take time for your heart to believe in yourself again. Start therapy immediately! Good luck
Response:
Sunny, I don’t know the specifics of your case, so I won’t comment on it;
(Goes on to comment on my case at great length) John, I understand and appreciate your comments. However, I’ve gotten past this point already. I am not a victim; if I was in a verbally abusive relationship, it was my doing, and I have fixed it. If what you say is true, then that would include my relationship with my parents. As a young child I was berated, humiliated and criticized, but if what you say applies to me, then it was all my fault. They were just being parents, and I was just being sensitive to "negative reinforcement" and a lack of positive encouragement. They didn’t know what effect their verbal abuse had on me, but I did. For a while it influenced my subsequent relationships. I followed a lot of bad patterns of choices. When you learn that you are a bad person, you tend to chose partners who reflect that self-assessment. (I say "when you learn" rather than "when you are taught" in keeping with your theory that things are not done to you, you take them upon yourself by choice… even as a toddler, I suppose?) But everything is all different now. I am not in an verbally abusive relationship with anybody. I removed myself from all sources of verbal abuse, I am in a very loving and supportive relationship, my ego is much stronger, and I feel much, MUCH better about life. See, I do have the power and control. All I had to do was get the hell away from all those bastards. Sunny
Response:
John posts: There are very, very few real victims in life; but it sometimes really amazes me the *choices* people make because of their upbringing or their past relationships with their parents, friends and siblings.
True, but your original post was accusatory and abusive on its own level. Re-victimizing the victim doesn’t do either one any good. It would be wise to read what you write before you post it. In certain instances, and I have read many of your postings, you have a habit of stating your point as if you have no sympathy or a minutiae of understanding for the person you are responding to. Amazon P.S. THis is a support group.
Response:
Amazon, as someone who was married to a controller, emotional and verbal abuser I agree with you that know one deserves to be treated that way. I think what John might have been trying to say though is that those of us that put up with those type of relationships allow (enable) such treatment. I allowed my husbands control. I allowed him to verbally and emotionally abuse me. I am an adult, I had the choice of whether to take that type of treatment or not. Of course at the time I was so beaten down that I didnt realize that. Looking back I now realize that I allowed my husband to control me. I am an a adult, I should have control over my own life and the option to either take bad treatment or to walk away from it. Your letter is definitely correct but if you turn to books on codependency you will probably understand Johns letter a bit more. Diamond – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -So she deserves this treatment? A person who has a low self-esteem to start may look to others for reassurance. IF that other person happens to belittle them, tell them they are ugly, worthless, no good – that emphasises the low self esteem that is already there. Usually control freaks are the perpetrators of this and it can be either a man or woman. A person with a controlling personality often seeks and finds someone he or she can take advantage of (sometimes this is done consciously). The person they abuse is very often NOT responsible for the initial abuse – if the abuse persists for a long period of time the triggering behaviour of the recipient is compounded by the abuse and creates a vicious cycle. This type of abuse can be referred to as verbal or emotional or psychological abuse. You are perpetuating the myth that the abused has to have done something wrong to have deserved the abuse – and that is bullshit. You had best do some research before you spew this crap, John. Amazon
Response:
I am no longer in an abusive relationship with anyone. But when I was, even the most casual derogatory comments directed my way would chip away at my self-esteem. It didn’t take much to make me feel bad. The remarks would add up after a while, and eventually the abuser didn’t even have to be around in order for the poison to continue to make me ill. The poison stayed in my system. Every single action I took, every move I made, there was always a little voice in my head that would nag at me: "You are bad. You are stupid. You are ugly. You are wrong. You are worthless." I couldn’t even brush my teeth or tie my shoes without thinking I was doing it wrong.
Sunny, I don’t know the specifics of your case, so I won’t comment on it; but I will give you the warning that NO ONE is a complete victim. You were just as much a part of this relationship as he was — you’re only fooling yourself if you think purely "He Abused Me Verbally And That’s Why I’m Screwed Up". That’s just passing the buck. There’s part of you that agreed with what this guy was sayying — or perhaps part of you that’s overly sensitive to any negative comment whatsoever (thus making you very vulnerable in this world to the point where you’re incapable of having any male – female relationships). What I’m trying to say here is that it’s REAL IMPORTANT that you look at yourself, your upbringing, etc. and WHY you are the way you are. If "it’s all HIS fault" — think again. You make your life; and it’s real important that you look into why you made your life this way, Sunny. – John Cooley
Response:
John Cooley’s attempt at sage advice: Sunny, I don’t know the specifics of your case, so I won’t comment on it; but I will give you the warning that NO ONE is a complete victim. You were just as much a part of this relationship as he was — you’re only fooling yourself if you think purely "He Abused Me Verbally And That’s Why I’m Screwed Up". That’s just passing the buck. There’s part of you that agreed with what this guy was sayying — or perhaps part of you that’s overly sensitive to any negative comment whatsoever (thus making you very vulnerable in this world to the point where you’re incapable of having any male – female relationships). What I’m trying to say here is that it’s REAL IMPORTANT that you look at yourself, your upbringing, etc. and WHY you are the way you are. If "it’s all HIS fault" — think again. You make your life; and it’s real important that you look into why you made your life this way, Sunny. – John Cooley
So she deserves this treatment? A person who has a low self-esteem to start may look to others for reassurance. IF that other person happens to belittle them, tell them they are ugly, worthless, no good – that emphasises the low self esteem that is already there. Usually control freaks are the perpetrators of this and it can be either a man or woman. A person with a controlling personality often seeks and finds someone he or she can take advantage of (sometimes this is done consciously). The person they abuse is very often NOT responsible for the initial abuse – if the abuse persists for a long period of time the triggering behaviour of the recipient is compounded by the abuse and creates a vicious cycle. This type of abuse can be referred to as verbal or emotional or psychological abuse. You are perpetuating the myth that the abused has to have done something wrong to have deserved the abuse – and that is bullshit. You had best do some research before you spew this crap, John. Amazon
Response:
: It is sad for me to see how I let my S2BX’s toungue affect my self esteem.
Les, your story touched my heart. Taking verbal abuse is like drinking poison. Even the smallest amounts can leave a bad taste in your mouth. A big dose can make your stomach go sour and your head start to pound. And a steady supply of it is bound to take a heavy toll, whether you are aware of your response or not. Even if you think you are letting the caustic criticism and snide remarks simply "roll off your back", the poison is still getting into you. I am no longer in an abusive relationship with anyone. But when I was, even the most casual derogatory comments directed my way would chip away at my self-esteem. It didn’t take much to make me feel bad. The remarks would add up after a while, and eventually the abuser didn’t even have to be around in order for the poison to continue to make me ill. The poison stayed in my system. Every single action I took, every move I made, there was always a little voice in my head that would nag at me: "You are bad. You are stupid. You are ugly. You are wrong. You are worthless." I couldn’t even brush my teeth or tie my shoes without thinking I was doing it wrong. Eventually, I believed the abuser. I thought I was stupid, I was ugly, I was bad. I was wrong! I am none of those things. The only way you can fully heal from the toxic effects of a verbally abusive relationship is to remove yourself from the abuser’s company — permanently. Don’t try to tough it out any longer. You don’t have to take that sort of treatment from anyone. Even a strong ego can’t withstand the effects of verbal abuse. No one is impervious to it. And not until you get that echo out of your head will you begin to realize that you are not stupid, you are not ugly, you are not sloppy, you are not bad. Please stay away from this person who injects you with so much poison. Re-think your feelings for her. Give yourself a chance to recover. Listen to your friends, Les. They know you are a good person. And listen to your heart. You know yourself best of all. You must know deep inside that you are not the bad person your S2BX tells you that you are. Try to realize that the person who abuses you verbally is damaged themselves. Forgive her, but stay away from her. You can’t help her. You can only help yourself. In time, you will heal, and you will get rid of the last traces of venom left in your system. I wish you the best, Les. I have a good feeling about you, and I think that you will be just fine. Sunny
Response:
: It is sad for me to see how I let my S2BX’s toungue affect my self esteem. : I believe her own distortions more than I believe my own eyes. For : example: I just got the house cleaned and her comment it that I’ll have : it a mess it 2 days. She does " not make it dirty". She has complained : about everything and never even agreed to work with me on solutions, like : shopping for curtains or looking for a new place. I accepted the blame. : But now I’m beginning to see that she has always preferred to curse the : darkness rather than to light a candle. I don’t have to internalize this : Any more. It is hard to see myself as the good human my friends see me as. : Therapy and friends are helping. It is hard and it feels sad to be : letting go. But she is doing me a favor by leaving. (I finally filed) : Let’s all hang in. Thanks for the support of your being here. — Les Eldridge, NYC, NY, USA
Response:
(some very perceptive things, coming up in a minute) Who left the home? Sigh…. That’s the rationale that steams me. Lainey, one morning he was reading the newspaper and she came up and smacked him so hard it broke his glasses. Then she dumped a large mug of scalding hot coffee onto him.
What rationale? It was a simple question. Sure he had a choice, take the kids and file for custody. Document the abuse. File charges. Follow through with the court case. Embarasssment at being a male struck by a female be damned. You make it sound sooooo easy. It wasn’t embarassment that stopped him in his tracks. Money money money money. How, pray tell, does he pay the lawyers.
I never said it was easy, living thru it first hand I can tell you it sucks in a big way. If he filed assault charges against her she would be the one in need of a lawyer, not him. Uh-uh. Anyone heard of any courts believing documentation of abused males (except in the most obvious cases!). And just taking the kids? When a guy does it, it is called KIDNAPPING and is a pretty serious crime.
From what sunny described there had to be obvious signs, I think she also said the ex punched him in front of the cops, did he follow thru on that instance of assault? Hear hear. Lisa is on the right track. He’d be in prison right now if he had followed the instinct to remove his kids from her demonic clutches . Believe me, he wanted to, but he knew that he would surely be punished. What a stupid thing to suggest, Lainey.
Absent a custody order giving her the kids, it is not kidnapping so long a he doesnt hide them or remove them from the state. I was logged on to America Online the other day, and I guess she figured out I was online, and suddenly she started sending me these Instant Messages, saying she needs to talk to me about "my intentions toward her children" and "when will you be meeting them so they can lose all respect for their father".
I hope you logged this. A case for custody usually is not hinged on one big incident, but rather a pattern of abusive behavior. Then she started with the phone harrassment, leaving messages, saying "Pick up the phone, stop running away from me. How dare you live ten miles from me and my children. Why don’t you move out of the state? Do you want us to have to move away? Do you want me to yank the kids out of school and move far away from their family and friends, is THAT what you want? You want me to upset these kids and uproot them? Cuz that will happen, and it will be all your fault." I could hear a child crying in the background. It makes my blood boil! If you ask me, it is child abuse, what she does.
Of course it is, its a bullshit way to treat a child. Did you keep the original tapes? It makes me sick! Sunny
You jumped to the wrong concusion regarding the post, I was not attacking you or him. I was asking questions because some things in your original post were not very clear. — Lainey Nothing that is worth doing can be achieved in our lifetime; therefore we must be saved by hope. Nothing which is true or beautiful or good makes complete sense in any immediate context of history; therefore we must be saved by faith. Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we must be saved by love. —-Reinhold Niebuhr
Response:
Aquarius posts: What is the difference here and why would anyone be willing to put up with one and not the other? On the outside now, I wish I hadn’t given him all those chances but I still don’t understand why I didn’t see the emotional abuse as "being that bad" when I know if it had been physical I wouldn’t have tolerated it. I don’t have any children so I wasn’t "staying for the kids’ sake". Anybody have some insight or answers?
THe difference here, IMHO is the physical evidence. The stigma is that to see is to believe. With emotional abuse it is more difficult to "see" the damage that has taken place. My fiancee was with his wife for close to I believe, 8 years, (part of that is dating prior to marriage). After they got married she was employed maybe a total of 2 years and was a student.He worked up to 3 jobs at a time to keep her in Pepsi and cigarettes and she belittled him. He was an aspiring writer and she was minimally supportive. She got pissed because while she was napping at 3 in the afternoon he was using the word prodessor and since he was typing too loud she smashed it. She continuously told him he was worthless, withheld sex from him, told him he was nothing and then slept with someone else in their apartment. Even when she gave him sex she would then either cry rape or pregnancy. He stayed with the marriage because he believed in it. Now I know he was not a saint but after hearing these stories from other people before he even admitted to me that he had a bad marriage pretty much proved the abuse. Having had contact with her later, I have discovered that she has no sense of reality and is often delusional and truly believes that she should not work and that the man should support her. A condition of our engagement was therapy and now he is more than just the wonderful man I first met he is a whole human again. There was NO signs of physical abuse but the emotional abuse ran deep. In his own mind he felt that it was his fault and she reinforced that by telling him that it WAS his fault. The emotional abuse is harder to see but is as deeply felt as physical abuse. Neither is worse than the other, just different Amazon
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some tips for men in this situation: (this is a medley of my own experience and the good advice I received) I’ll add the one item I’ve learned from my own experience – When my wife assaulted me in the late stages of our marriage, I called 911. That was a waste of time. The officers who came to the door refused to even take a report, or make any note of the incident. They did say I could see a magistrate the next day. In the morning, I went to the courthouse to see the magistrate, and the attitude was COMPLETELY different. The people at the courthouse were courteous and helpful, even supportive. They took my information, and gave me the option of having her arrested. They did politely suggest that having her subpoenaed was probably better, and I went along with that. So I learned that there are many pathways into the police/legal system, and if you’re not getting what you want from one of them, you might do much better through another! Ken Presting Durham, NC You are absolutely right. RonThe other approach is the one I used: I sued her in civil court for
simple assault, asking for damages for medical care and lost work. I won three times during my separation. The key: get medical care, tell the doctors what happened and force them to file a report, and call at least one "hot-line" as soon as possible after the assault. Get yourself on record wherever possible.
Response:
Some tips for men in this situation: (this is a medley of my own experience and the good advice I received)
David, this is excellent advice. It does go to show you one thing, though — men who hope to defend their rights against an abusive wife had better be prepared to be on trial themselves first. Thanks for your input, it gives me hope. Sunny
Response:
Some tips for men in this situation: (this is a medley of my own experience and the good advice I received)
I’ll add the one item I’ve learned from my own experience – When my wife assaulted me in the late stages of our marriage, I called 911. That was a waste of time. The officers who came to the door refused to even take a report, or make any note of the incident. They did say I could see a magistrate the next day. In the morning, I went to the courthouse to see the magistrate, and the attitude was COMPLETELY different. The people at the courthouse were courteous and helpful, even supportive. They took my information, and gave me the option of having her arrested. They did politely suggest that having her subpoenaed was probably better, and I went along with that. So I learned that there are many pathways into the police/legal system, and if you’re not getting what you want from one of them, you might do much better through another! Ken Presting Durham, NC
Response:
Uh-uh. Anyone heard of any courts believing documentation of abused males (except in the most obvious cases!).
Yes. The courts believed me. I was warned by my lawyer to expect anti-male prejudice, and to plan for it. But I was encouraged to fight for custody. The court believed me – despite her expert witness psychologist who testified that she was harmless. And just taking the kids? When a guy does it, it is called KIDNAPPING and is a pretty serious crime.
No, actually, when I took my son from the home, the police told my wife that I had every legal right to do so. (This was before anything had been filed.) I’ve carefully followed two cases involving situations like this- in both cases the man wound up with a restraining order AGAINST him, even though he had done nothing except restrain the woman to keep her from beating on him in one case (I’m talking holding flailing arms here, not smacking or kicking or whatever).
Yes. If you have to use physical force to restrain your wife from assaulting you, then YOU should be the first to contact the authorities. The spouse that first seeks a restraining order is in a much better position. The reason for the Order of Protection? To quote one Judge… "There is no abuse present, but just to be on the safe side…." Both of the women involved claimed to be terrified *he* might get abusive. I guess if I verbally and physically abused a guy for years, I would be terrified of a backlash…but let’s get real here…
Some tips for men in this situation: (this is a medley of my own experience and the good advice I received) 1) The kids – don’t leave home without them. DO NOT LEAVE HOME WITHOUT THEM. Don’t be pressured into moving out of the house unless you can take the children with you. 2) Do your homework – document her abusive behavior. Seek medical treatment for ANY battering injuries, even trivial ones. Tell your doctor how you sustained them, get it in your record, and take photos. (Get a poloroid camera.) If she is involved in any incidents in which the police are called, get case numbers, officer’s names, exact locations. Get the incident reports. 3) Get support. Talk to clergy about her behavior. Find trusted friends. Cultivate people who will testify on your behalf. 4) Start talking to lawyers early in the process (i.e., when you are worried but still hoping and kind of optimistic that it can be settled without a divorce.) Any lawyer you interview should have at least half their practice in family law. The first hour consultation is usually free. 5) If she seeks a restraining or protective order on you, fight it. File a counter one on her, and bring your evidence to court. If she falsely calls the cops on you after she’s started a fight, INSIST (politely but firmly to the police) on filing charges against her as well. 6) If you have concerns about her behavior towards the kids, get professionals involved. Talk to pediatricians, social workers, clergy. If you can document abuse, get a report in to CPS. Talk to your lawyer about the best way to do this – whether you should report or whether you should get someone else to do it. 7) Get names and contact info for any counselors, psychiatists, etc that she is seeing or has seen or that you have jointly seen. 
Talk to your lawyer (even during the free 1-hr consultations) about the laws in your state w.r.t. taping conversations and phonecalls. 9) Develop a plan for what you would do if you had to flee the home with your children suddenly. Who would you stay with? What would you do about school? 10) Keep a diary – write down at least a paragraph on any bizarre or abusive incidents. Include info about potential witnesses, documentation. If she does something like smashing up furniture or overturning bookcases, photograph it. Obviously, don’t keep this where she could find it. 11) Quit drinking. If she calls the cops on you when you have liquor on your breath, you have a big problem. 12) Get guns out of the house. If she says that you held a gun to her head, you face an uphill battle. Unless you can show that there was no gun present. 13) Clean up your act. Think about the most damaging things that your wife could prove about you. Correct them and document the steps you took to correct them. 14) Clean the house. If you have embarassing documentation around the house (old diaries, letters you wrote in anger, old love letters, homework or journals that you kept as part of counseling) get them out of the house. I know that there is a huge amount of anti-male prejudice in the court system. But you can overcome it if you do your homework, avoid the major pitfalls, and get a good lawyer. I myself have done a lot to alert men to the anti-male bias of the courts. But I hope that none of those warnings have encouraged a defeatist attitude. Men CAN win custody. We have to fight smarter. But it’s doable. David Throop Visit the Mens Issues Page http://www.vix.com/men
Response:
(some very perceptive things, coming up in a minute) Who left the home?
Sigh…. That’s the rationale that steams me. Lainey, one morning he was reading the newspaper and she came up and smacked him so hard it broke his glasses. Then she dumped a large mug of scalding hot coffee onto him. She was mad because she read his e-mail and he had gotten a message from an online acquaintance (just happened to be female.) He wasn’t allowed to have female acquaintances, so she clobbered him. She then told him she was leaving for the day with the kids, and when she came home, she wanted him gone. She said, get your shirts, get your books, get your CDs, get your tools, get OUT. Told him if he was still there when she got back, she would kill him in his sleep. So he decided to take her up on the offered exit. As soon as she left, he packed as much of his stuff as he could into the back of a friend’s pickup truck, and slept on the friend’s couch for a week while he looked for a cheap apartment. So "he left the home," I guess you could technically say. She threw him out, under threat of continued violence, but to you and the courts, he left. He is the abandoner. "How could you just walk out on your wife and two little girls," she wails. It is such bullshit it makes me choke. Sure he had a choice, take the kids and file for custody. Document the abuse. File charges. Follow through with the court case. Embarasssment at being a male struck by a female be damned.
You make it sound sooooo easy. It wasn’t embarassment that stopped him in his tracks. Money money money money. How, pray tell, does he pay the lawyers. She got her lawyer to freeze all of his accounts, so he had no access to money. She also got all his retirement fund, his stocks, and the house, while he got some old used parts cars. So he is supposed to go whining to the judge, oh she beat me up in front of the kids so I should have custody, no sir, I don’t have a lawyer, but can I please have my kids now? It doesn’t work that way. You think he should have just grabbed the kids and run? Boy, are you dreaming. Uh-uh. Anyone heard of any courts believing documentation of abused males (except in the most obvious cases!). And just taking the kids? When a guy does it, it is called KIDNAPPING and is a pretty serious crime.
Hear hear. Lisa is on the right track. He’d be in prison right now if he had followed the instinct to remove his kids from her demonic clutches . Believe me, he wanted to, but he knew that he would surely be punished. What a stupid thing to suggest, Lainey. I’ve carefully followed two cases involving situations like this- in both cases the man wound up with a restraining order AGAINST him, even though he had done nothing except restrain the woman to keep her from beating on him in one case (I’m talking holding flailing arms here, not smacking or kicking or whatever). The reason for the Order of Protection? To quote one Judge… "There is no abuse present, but just to be on the safe side…." Both of the women involved claimed to be terrified *he* might get abusive. I guess if I verbally and physically abused a guy for years, I would be terrified of a backlash…but let’s get real here…
Yup… at one point, she came charging at him to attack him, and he stepped out of the way at the last second, and she crashed into the wall. She called the police, and tried to have him arrested for assault! Claimed he attacked her and that she was terrified of him. Kept pointing to the bruise on her head that she had given herself. Such evil lies. She said she didn’t want to press charges, that even though she was "frightened of him", she would give him "another chance." Oh brother! Like, "next time, maybe he’ll stand still so I can hurt him." And on yet another occasion, he was minding his own business, and she poured another mug of hot coffee on him (McDonald’s notoriously hot coffee, no less… she loved to burn him with it), and after she dumped a full cup right into his lap, his reaction was to jump up swearing in pain. Wouldn’t you?? Later, she claimed she poured the coffee on him in self-defense, "because he was swearing at me." Any devious woman can re-write the sequence of events to suit her needs to look like a victim. Who will believe whom? Here’s this cold-eyed bitch calmly claiming he provoked her, and here HE is, all wet with coffee, sputtering mad, and a definite look of anger on his face. All she has to do is say "Ooooh, he SCARES me." What people do need to do is educate men that they *can* try for custody. Too many attorneys say it cannot be done and don’t even try.
It costs a ton of money. It isn’t free. And there is always a very good chance the father will lose ALL. I cannot understand why some folks have so many problems…I seem to manage to get along with my ex and his new wife, and it only took me a coupla years to see the light 
It’s just not worth the venom, and all the crap, when the kids are involved- and all THEY want to do is see both parents.
Gosh Lisa I sure wish my SO’s ex was like you. She just won’t get over it…. she still blames him for everything, and the venom is running rampant. You truly see the light if you realize the kids should be spared all this toxic crap. I was logged on to America Online the other day, and I guess she figured out I was online, and suddenly she started sending me these Instant Messages, saying she needs to talk to me about "my intentions toward her children" and "when will you be meeting them so they can lose all respect for their father". I have not spoken to her ever before, so it was a shock. I have not yet met the kids, either, and I told her that was because her violent reactions whenever my name is mentioned does involve the kids, and I won’t stand for it. She then wanted to put the kids online to tell me what they think of me. "They’re right here, why don’t I just have them tell you themselves." The kids are only 7 and 9, and I hardly think they should be put on the spot like that. So I logged off before she could go get them. Then she started with the phone harrassment, leaving messages, saying "Pick up the phone, stop running away from me. How dare you live ten miles from me and my children. Why don’t you move out of the state? Do you want us to have to move away? Do you want me to yank the kids out of school and move far away from their family and friends, is THAT what you want? You want me to upset these kids and uproot them? Cuz that will happen, and it will be all your fault." I could hear a child crying in the background. It makes my blood boil! If you ask me, it is child abuse, what she does. I know there are some reasonable women out there, but there are still plenty left who use that same old "I’m just a girl, I’m not strong enough to hurt anyone… he just up and left me" argument to make them look like the fragile damsel in distress. And they drag the kids right into it, too. "How could you do this to your little girls," she says. She abuses the kids emotionally and blames it all on me and her ex-husband. And it’s all done under the guise of being a "good mother". The kids tell the school counsellor that they are supposed to be mad at daddy but they can’t… quite… say why. They are confused as hell. It makes me sick! Sunny
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But at least the kids no longer have to watch that monster of a woman he married pound him into the dirt all the time. No, but they are in the home alone with her, without their sane parent to protect them. Why did he leave the children with such a crazy violent woman? David (who just became the single custodial parent of a 4.5 month old, in a similar case) You must have missed the whole point of my post — he did not just "leave" his kids with her. They were taken from him and given to her because the system is so totally anti-male that even battered husbands are treated like criminals. Why did he "leave" them with her, you ask? Do you think he had any choice?? You make it sound as though it were a passive thing on his part. It turns out that in this country of ours, the family courts are biased towards fathers of small children, and nine out of ten times will assign custody to the mother — even if she is abusive. Even if she is crazy! She is not abusive to the kids at this point, only to the father. She is not hallucinating, talking-to-walls crazy — she is emotionally disturbed, and hides it well when anyone in authority is looking. He is a male, therefore is assumed to not know one thing about child-rearing. The system just assumes he is a jackass and gives the kids to the mom. The opposite is the truth here. He is a loving and capable dad who did most of the child-care while still married. It’s people like you that turn around and accuse him of just "leaving them" with her that make my blood boil. Do you think he WANTS her to have custody? Not exactly! But there is one consolation — when she has the kids to take care of, he knows where she is. She is home with the kids, and not out stalking him. But "leave them", he did not. He was given no choice in the matter, unless he wants to borrow tens of thousands of dollars from somewhere and fight for custody. And most likely lose, because he is male. Like I said, he was wiped out financially by her cunning pitbull attorney, and he is a male, so he is being punished for divorcing this violent witch. He won’t be given custody — this is a woman’s world when it comes to kids and who they live with. He is not about to risk losing his visitation rights by fighting for sole custody. He has already been punished enough. Sunny
I’d like to add my experience to this thread. I divorced against my will. I tried everything I could to avert the divorce, but my ex-wife was bent on divorcing me. I too was the primary caretaker for our two daughters, and I tried to obtain custody. In the end, it came to the point of financially wrecking me. I also was pitted against a cunning attorney that filed petitions and motions accusing me of abuse. In the end, I was the one that was forced to leave. It was devestating. My ex-wife is an emotionally disturbed woman. That is not an opinion. She was under the care of a psychiatrist for a long time and also on medications. In the end, I am now "living in a van down by the river" and responsible for some $23,000 in legal fees. My ex-wife has the four bedroom house with an inground pool. I do have a decent visitation schedule with our daughters though. She is the one that wanted out, but I was the one who was forced to walk. It doesn’t seem fair. Our marriage was final last October, and to top it all off she now wants to reconcile.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You must have missed the whole point of my post — he did not just "leave" his kids with her. They were taken from him and given to her because the system is so totally anti-male that even battered husbands are treated like criminals. Who left the home? Why did he "leave" them with her, you ask? Do you think he had any choice?? You make it sound as though it were a passive thing on his part. Sure he had a choice, take the kids and file for custody. Document the abuse. File charges. Follow through with the court case. Embarasssment at being a male struck by a female be damned.
Uh-uh. Anyone heard of any courts believing documentation of abused males (except in the most obvious cases!). And just taking the kids? When a guy does it, it is called KIDNAPPING and is a pretty serious crime. I’ve carefully followed two cases involving situations like this- in both cases the man wound up with a restraining order AGAINST him, even though he had done nothing except restrain the woman to keep her from beating on him in one case (I’m talking holding flailing arms here, not smacking or kicking or whatever). The reason for the Order of Protection? To quote one Judge… "There is no abuse present, but just to be on the safe side…." Both of the women involved claimed to be terrified *he* might get abusive. I guess if I verbally and physically abused a guy for years, I would be terrified of a backlash…but let’s get real here… What people do need to do is educate men that they *can* try for custody. Too many attorneys say it cannot be done and don’t even try. My husbands first attorney did this to him, despite knowing how the ex is. Course now we find ourselves in a custody trial since it just got to be too much. A lot of people hope (in vain) that the horrible spouse (be it male or female) will eventually get better, especially if they remarry. (And I suspect most do) I cannot understand why some folks have so many problems…I seem to manage to get along with my ex and his new wife, and it only took me a coupla years to see the light It’s just not worth the venom, and all the crap, when the kids are involved- and all THEY want to do is see both parents. peace, lisa —
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, but they are in the home alone with her, without their sane parent to protect them. Why did he leave the children with such a crazy violent woman? David (who just became the single custodial parent of a 4.5 month old, in a similar case) You must have missed the whole point of my post — he did not just "leave" his kids with her. They were taken from him and given to her because the system is so totally anti-male that even battered husbands are treated like criminals.
Who left the home? Why did he "leave" them with her, you ask? Do you think he had any choice?? You make it sound as though it were a passive thing on his part. It turns out that in this country of ours, the family courts are biased towards fathers of small children, and nine out of ten times will assign custody to the mother — even if she is abusive. Even if she is crazy!
Sure he had a choice, take the kids and file for custody. Document the abuse. File charges. Follow through with the court case. Embarasssment at being a male struck by a female be damned. — Lainey Nothing that is worth doing can be achieved in our lifetime; therefore we must be saved by hope. Nothing which is true or beautiful or good makes complete sense in any immediate context of history; therefore we must be saved by faith. Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we must be saved by love. —-Reinhold Niebuhr
Response:
But at least the kids no longer have to watch that monster of a woman he married pound him into the dirt all the time. No, but they are in the home alone with her, without their sane parent to protect them. Why did he leave the children with such a crazy violent woman? David (who just became the single custodial parent of a 4.5 month old, in a similar case)
You must have missed the whole point of my post — he did not just "leave" his kids with her. They were taken from him and given to her because the system is so totally anti-male that even battered husbands are treated like criminals. Why did he "leave" them with her, you ask? Do you think he had any choice?? You make it sound as though it were a passive thing on his part. It turns out that in this country of ours, the family courts are biased towards fathers of small children, and nine out of ten times will assign custody to the mother — even if she is abusive. Even if she is crazy! She is not abusive to the kids at this point, only to the father. She is not hallucinating, talking-to-walls crazy — she is emotionally disturbed, and hides it well when anyone in authority is looking. He is a male, therefore is assumed to not know one thing about child-rearing. The system just assumes he is a jackass and gives the kids to the mom. The opposite is the truth here. He is a loving and capable dad who did most of the child-care while still married. It’s people like you that turn around and accuse him of just "leaving them" with her that make my blood boil. Do you think he WANTS her to have custody? Not exactly! But there is one consolation — when she has the kids to take care of, he knows where she is. She is home with the kids, and not out stalking him. But "leave them", he did not. He was given no choice in the matter, unless he wants to borrow tens of thousands of dollars from somewhere and fight for custody. And most likely lose, because he is male. Like I said, he was wiped out financially by her cunning pitbull attorney, and he is a male, so he is being punished for divorcing this violent witch. He won’t be given custody — this is a woman’s world when it comes to kids and who they live with. He is not about to risk losing his visitation rights by fighting for sole custody. He has already been punished enough. Sunny
Response:
But at least the kids no longer have to watch that monster of a woman he married pound him into the dirt all the time.
No, but they are in the home alone with her, without their sane parent to protect them. Why did he leave the children with such a crazy violent woman? David (who just became the single custodial parent of a 4.5 month old, in a similar case)
Response:
When does it end? When can we get on with *our* life without his ex trying to cause problems? I am sick of her only dialogue with me being to ask if he’s started beating me yet, given me any VD…etc….
Hi Lisa, Yes, we are talking about the same ex-wife! I wasn’t aware that you are married to my boyfriend. :o) If I were you, I would set up some firm boundaries and do not let her cross them. You are not obligated to take her abuse for one second. Don’t talk to her on the phone, don’t get out of the car if you go pick up the kids. (Of course, I say this as though I am giving expert advice. What do I know? I am a total chicken-shit.) I just think it is a bad idea to have any sort of contact with her whatsoever, for your sake AND for the kids. *Zero contact.* The kids shouldn’t be exposed to the kind of verbal abuse that she gives you, either. What does it teach them? Lisa, you don’t have to take that crap from anybody, for any reason. (Warning: Rant Alert) Actually, the similaries are startling. And it never ends. The ex-wife assaulted him and then threw him out only to accuse him of leaving her and breaking her heart; she called ALL his friends and relatives and co-workers and told them terrible lies about him (this is called a "distortion campaign" and the damage still hasn’t been repaired); she constantly accused him of having affairs (he is terrified to even glance at other women); she tears him to shreds in front of their two little girls, and tries to force the kids into hating him or saying they are angry at him (they play along but as soon as she is gone, they smother him with kisses); she tries to convince everyone that she was the perfect wife but was abused and abandoned by a two-faced monster. Everyone who knows him at all knows this is out of the question. He is a decent, hard-working, kind, gentle, loving man. She has called him every rotten name in the book, in front of the kids. She refers to him as the sperm donor, the low-life scum sucking rat bastard worthless worm who deserves to die. I wonder if she realizes that by abusing him this way in front of the kids, she is abusing the KIDS, too. She is so selfish and wrapped up in her own bitter little vendetta that she could care less about the kids. And yes, he pays her $1100 a month in alimony and child support. This privledge is courtesy of the fact he was married to this nasty battering shrew for 12 years. So she refuses to work, saying he messed her up too much by divorcing her and she can’t emotionally handle going to work every day, and she complains bitterly about not getting enough money out of him, accuses him of having hidden assets, etc., always wants more, always feels short-changed, and tells everyone who will listen all about how she suffers so. The marriage has been over for two years yet she has not stopped badgering and harrassing him. Most of it is sheer verbal abuse, but she also begs him to come back to her. Seriously. AS IF!!! She hates his guts, yet she is frantic to keep him in her life. Go figure. She acts as though the divorce were only yesterday, and as though the whole thing came to a sudden painful shock to her. She is CRAZY. But the similarities are so strong, I was wondering, does she have any psychiatric illnesses? Specifically, borderline personality disorder. If you have a web browser, check out this page: http://members.aol.com:80/BPDCentral/basicbpd.html and tell me if it sounds like her. I am afraid to ever meet her. In fact, she is so violent and out-of-control of her emotions, we have been afraid to have me meet the kids because she goes positively ballistic at the mere mention of my name, and invariably drags the kids into it and upsets them horribly. She had a friend who saw me and him at a grocery store together and told her about it, and she threatened to kill herself in front of the kids and have them put in a foster home, and that’s exactly what she told the kids. She abuses the kids to get back at us. She has also told them horrible, horrible things about me, all untrue, things that no 7 or 9 year old should even hear about. They start to cry every time they think they might have to meet me. Last Xmas I put some children’s books under the Christmas tree for them, in my name, and when the Bitch found out, she had a total cow and cancelled their Christmas at home, saying Santa wasn’t coming because now they had ME to give them presents and that she was going to leave them there at Daddy’s so I could be their new mother from now on. The kids wailed, of course. So cruel. She uses the kids to punish us for her patholgical jealousy. To avoid that, we just keep me out of the picture as much as possible. I hate it. My boyfriend and I live together, but I have a separate apartment I go to whenever he has the kids over for visitation. Can you blame me? This lunatic controls our lives. We live in total fear of her. Eventually I will insist that we live our lives normally, and move in together and have me meet the kids so they can see that I am not a flesh-eating monster who stole their daddy, and let her react any way she wants… that should be her problem, not ours… but in the back of my mind I know her response will be violent and extreme, and it will harm the kids. And how will that ever change? I can’t imagine ever talking to her or taking any abuse from her. Not gonna happen. Nope. My boundaries are set firm. And when I do meet the kids, I will not be discussing their mother with them. She won’t even exist, as far as I am concerned. Sorry this is so long, every once in a while I just gotta vent. Thanks for listening. Sunny
Response:
— Forwarded message follows — Just wondering how the self-righteous among us act towards physical abuse against women… Wouldn’t everyone agree that the woman undergoing such trauma should leave that marriage? Why, then, is it different for the man who is undergoing the same trauma? Many men, trying to hold onto what’s left of their dignity, would NEVER disclose to any stranger, or even friend, that they were physically attacked, or at least, bent out of shape by it.
You know this kind of hit a nerve for me…. When I was in Undergrad I dated a man who had been out of the dating scene for quite some time after his relationship ended with a "woman he dated throughout high school and beyond and who had hurt him badly". He was a friend of a friend of mine. I found out from my friend that his ex-girlfriend used to hit him and was quite nasty to him. We saw her crossing the street one day and the subject came up about her abusive nature. I asked him why he had stayed in the relationship so long (if I’m remembering correctly, she ended the relationship, not him). He looked at me and replied don’t you believe in second chances? Wouldn’t you give someone a second chance? I replied not if he hit me….I’d be gone for good. The ironic thing is if my husband would have hit me….I wouldn’t have had a problem leaving and wouldn’t have looked back. But after all, he ONLY had an affair and so I gave him a second chance, and a third, and a fourth…..each time he went back to her behind my back until I figured it out and confronted him with it. I forget how many "second chances" I was willing to give him to keep my marriage intact…..lots. What is the difference here and why would anyone be willing to put up with one and not the other? On the outside now, I wish I hadn’t given him all those chances but I still don’t understand why I didn’t see the emotional abuse as "being that bad" when I know if it had been physical I wouldn’t have tolerated it. I don’t have any children so I wasn’t "staying for the kids’ sake". Anybody have some insight or answers? Aquarius — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:
Response:
Like most men who leave a divorce, he is presumed to be the villain. He lost custody of the kids to her, had to pay through the nose for the divorce, lost all of his life savings to her in the settlement, lost the house to her, lost a lot of his dignity in court, and now lives in a tiny apartment in a bad part of town, missing his kids. **He was punished for leaving an abusive bitch.**
You are describing my husband and his ex perfectly… We must be involved with the same guy, cuz we all know this kind of stuff is rare! I wish I could say things will get better, but 4 years later, it hasn’t for us. In fact her mom blamed my husband for all the fights last Easter, saying he left her and broke her heart, therefore it is his fault! Never mind he is labeled the defendant in court proceedings…. She is remarried to a guy she claims to love…so why is she still picking fights because of a ‘broken heart’? She’s even been telling everyone he admitted to being a pathological liar and having multiple affairs, and has had everyone snowed. I even believed her, until I realized he would do no such thing (and talking to one of the supposed girlfriends) – I suspect he did admit to it after constant badgering in a moment of frustration induced sarcasm. BTW, by her, I am called that woman, one of your whores, or something similar (in front of my step daughter, no less – try explaining to a small child what a whore is and why her mommy would call me that – I was sorely tempted to explain how her mommy screws us out of almost $1100 a month in that context, but resisted :) I am rarely called by my name or ‘your wife’. *sigh* we’re in the middle of a custody thing, Court was cancelled several weeks ago due to one expert not being done, and she had the nerve to ask him FOUR times over the phone how court was and how did he make out. He better not lash out though! When does it end? When can we get on with *our* life without his ex trying to cause problems? I am sick of her only dialogue with me being to ask if he’s started beating me yet, given me any VD…etc…. peace, lisa —
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just wondering how the self-righteous among us act towards physical abuse against women… Wouldn’t everyone agree that the woman undergoing such trauma should leave that marriage? Why, then, is it different for the man who is undergoing the same trauma? Many men, trying to hold onto what’s left of their dignity, would NEVER disclose to any stranger, or even friend, that they were physically attacked, or at least, bent out of shape by it. Do those individuals, who "believe in the ultimate sanctity of marriage," agree that men who undergo constant verbal castration should "live lives of quiet desperation?" Does "marriage" and "marriage" alone give one the "right" to act selfishly, with no regard for the other partner? To use the sanctity of marriage for one’s own selfish purposes and to further blaspheme that sanctity in the name of political correctness is the ultimate immorality. Steff
Right on, Steff. My SO was constantly attacked, horribly verbally and physically abused, by his wife during their marriage. He stuck with it for the sake of the kids… but eventually he realized that it was very bad for the kids to witness this constant ball-breaking, brow-beating, smacking, shoving and haranguing, so he left. Actually, the day he left, his wife smacked him in the head so hard it broke his glasses and knocked out his dental work, poured scalding hot coffee on him, kicked him out on the street, and SHE filed for divorce. (She was bluffing just to shake him up, she really didn’t intend to divorce him, but he took her up on the offer and called her bluff.) Even though she drove him out, she claims HE broke the marriage vows and abandoned her. He was accused of being a selfish worm for leaving. She is considered the poor victim left alone to care for two kids, while he is a selfish jerk and a worthless low-life for "walking out" and getting a girlfriend who loves him dearly (the girlfriend, me, is now called a "homewrecker", even though we met long after the separation was underway.) The ex-wife has mental problems (borderline personality disorder) that contribute to her abusive behavior, so she still berates him with the argument, "Marriage is in sickness and in health, including mental health." No matter what, she blames him for everything. He is a bad person for not staying in the marriage and subjecting himself to her assaults. "How could you stomp on the sanctity of marriage and just walk out on me and your family, you rat-bastard! Where are your morals! How can you show your face in church!" On one occasion after they separated, she came to his apartment, kicked down the door, trashed his furniture, and clawed his face. The neighbors heard the commotion and called the police. Even though he was calmly explaining to the police what had happened, and she was hysterical with rage, the cops were going to arrest HIM!! They didn’t want to listen to what he was trying to tell them. All they knew was "domestic disturbance" and lept to the conclusion that he was beating her. The cops were repeatedly told by the neighbors that it was HER, not him, that was doing the assaulting, and they seemed amused. Reluctantly, smirking, they finally arrested her instead, but only after she threw another punch at him, right in front of them. Like most men who leave a divorce, he is presumed to be the villain. He lost custody of the kids to her, had to pay through the nose for the divorce, lost all of his life savings to her in the settlement, lost the house to her, lost a lot of his dignity in court, and now lives in a tiny apartment in a bad part of town, missing his kids. **He was punished for leaving an abusive bitch.** The subject of abuse never came up in divorce court — and he would have been humiliated to mention it, too. Who would believe it anyway? A 130 pound woman overpowering a 190 pound man? Ridiculous. Besides, it is her word against his, and she denied everything, or tossed it off with "Oh, I didn’t really HURT you, you weinie. Stop whining. If I ever hit you, you must have deserved it. I have PMS, and you make me mad. It is all your fault." Now, if the situation were reversed, and he had behaved the monstrous way she had toward him, you can be SURE everyone would be applauding her for leaving. HE would be the monster, and SHE would be the pitiful victim who escaped. But SOLELY because he is a MAN, he is condemned as a family-abandoner and a weakling, and she was "just a little out of control because of her emotions." It’s that damn "penis factor" again. But at least the kids no longer have to watch that monster of a woman he married pound him into the dirt all the time. It was worth breaking the vows. Some "marriage" that was! Sunny
Response:
Just wondering how the self-righteous among us act towards physical abuse against women… Wouldn’t everyone agree that the woman undergoing such trauma should leave that marriage? Why, then, is it different for the man who is undergoing the same trauma? Many men, trying to hold onto what’s left of their dignity, would NEVER disclose to any stranger, or even friend, that they were physically attacked, or at least, bent out of shape by it. Do those individuals, who "believe in the ultimate sanctity of marriage," agree that men who undergo constant verbal castration should "live lives of quiet desperation?" Does "marriage" and "marriage" alone give one the "right" to act selfishly, with no regard for the other partner? To use the sanctity of marriage for one’s own selfish purposes and to further blaspheme that sanctity in the name of political correctness is the ultimate immorality. Steff
