Adultery After The Fact???

Question:

Thanks so much Lori.  The link you provided actually has the form I need. I looked online through so many other websites and couldn’t find what I wanted.  I’m going to keep looking and see if I can download that form for free rather than pay for it.  If I can get it for free I’m all about that. Lori,….did Bill swap brains with *you* this time??? ;^) ah ha.. had a feeling they were the same person all along.

She’s the Jekyll side.

Response:

I mean, ikinda knew I had several personalities, but now I think I’ve made a really big leap!!    :-)

LOL Thanks for looking that up for Karen, Bill.  I was gone for the weekend doing the family Turkey thing.  (you really have to stop impersonating me when I’m gone Bill) hehe Blahhh I’m  gonna have to mark a ton of posts read and be done with it. Being gone 2 days and now 5 finals to study for I can’t get caught up.  So if anyone else asked me something I didn’t reply too, I hope Bill took care of it.  ;) Hope you found what you needed Karen. Lori Mc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks so much Lori.  The link you provided actually has the form I need.  I looked online through so many other websites and couldn’t find what I wanted.  I’m going to keep looking and see if I can download that form for free rather than pay for it.  If I can get it for free I’m all about that. Thanks again! Karen I found divorce forms online for Colorado.   Are you sure you can’t find any for your state, Karen?    Maybe this url will help – at least for a start: Let us know. http://www.divorcenet.com/forms/divorce.htm

Response:

Thanks so much Lori.  The link you provided actually has the form I need.  I looked online through so many other websites and couldn’t find what I wanted.  I’m going to keep looking and see if I can download that form for free rather than pay for it.  If I can get it for free I’m all about that. Thanks again! Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I found divorce forms online for Colorado.   Are you sure you can’t find any for your state, Karen?    Maybe this url will help – at least for a start: Let us know. http://www.divorcenet.com/forms/divorce.htm

Response:

Thanks so much Lori.  The link you provided actually has the form I need. I looked online through so many other websites and couldn’t find what I wanted.  I’m going to keep looking and see if I can download that form for free rather than pay for it.  If I can get it for free I’m all about that.

Lori,….did Bill swap brains with *you* this time??? ;^) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks again! Karen I found divorce forms online for Colorado.   Are you sure you can’t find any for your state, Karen?    Maybe this url will help – at least for a start: Let us know. http://www.divorcenet.com/forms/divorce.htm

Response:

I mean, ikinda knew I had several personalities, but now I think I’ve made a really big leap!!    :-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks so much Lori.  The link you provided actually has the form I need.  I looked online through so many other websites and couldn’t find what I wanted.  I’m going to keep looking and see if I can download that form for free rather than pay for it.  If I can get it for free I’m all about that. Thanks again! Karen I found divorce forms online for Colorado.   Are you sure you can’t find any for your state, Karen?    Maybe this url will help – at least for a start: Let us know. http://www.divorcenet.com/forms/divorce.htm

Response:

Thanks so much Lori.  The link you provided actually has the form I need. I looked online through so many other websites and couldn’t find what I wanted.  I’m going to keep looking and see if I can download that form for free rather than pay for it.  If I can get it for free I’m all about that. Lori,….did Bill swap brains with *you* this time??? ;^)

ah ha.. had a feeling they were the same person all along.

Response:

I found divorce forms online for Colorado.   Are you sure you can’t find any for your state, Karen?    Maybe this url will help – at least for a start: Let us know. http://www.divorcenet.com/forms/divorce.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I could if I knew just what I needed.  :-)  Thats what I’m trying to find out.  I’m going to call the judge or courthouse on Monday to find out exactly what I need.  According to the letter that I was sent we didn’t fill out a ‘decree of divorce’.  I can’t find any paperwork online anywhere or any forms that are a decree of divorce.  I thought a decree of divorce was the divorce paperwork itself.  I understand that its actually the final decree of divorce that is the actual divorce itself. Couldn’t you just file the missing paperwork and proceed with the divorce already filed? Lori Mc

Response:

Thanks so much for your brutally honest advice people.  I was asking a simple question and you all tear me a new asshole.  Always nice to read responds to my posts that make me feel like crap.  Thanks!!!

The initial posting was confusing as to its intent and the advise desired. Obviously the intent was misinterpreted.

Response:

Wow.  I didn’t realize he could retract his petition.  I guess I assumed that since we both had to sign the original paperwork that I would have to sign the paperwork to retract the divorce.  The law makes my head hurt. Hmmmm…my only concern with him potentially retracting his petition for divorce is that now I’ll have to file the paperwork and therefore pay for it, which I can’t afford at the moment.  My husband is a prograstinator and for him to actually retract the petition would mean too much work for him so it likely wouldn’t happen once he realizes whats involved.  Oh well.  I’m not going to worry about it yet. Thanks for you help.  Sorry for the confusion.  This is why email some times sucks.  So easy for things to be misunderstood.  I’m exhausted this week. Too much stuff going on.  Clearly I wasn’t paying attention to what I was trying to say.  :-) Thanks Ryan.  I would like to think that he will get his one day.  Not that I’m wishing for that but what he did is unforgiveable.  Yet he claims to love me.  Errrr….thats love?  He needs to write me a defination of love because my idea of love is way different. Karen

Response:

Wow.  I didn’t realize he could retract his petition.  I guess I assumed that since we both had to sign the original paperwork that I would have to sign the paperwork to retract the divorce.

If you filed a joint petition, then he cannot simply withdraw or dismiss the petition, because then you would be a co-petitioner; however, if he filed and what you signed was a waiver of service and/or notice of the hearing (or some such); then, in Florida (YMMV) he could file a dismissal and the case would be over… unless that is, you did file a counterclaim for divorce which would make him the defendant of your petition.  Whether or not you can or should cannot be addressed here. As far as refusing to reconcile… in Florida (YMMV), if either party does not want a divorce and denies the grounds stated in the petition, i.e. that the marriage is irretrievable broken, then the judge could order counseling for a period of time, but ultimately would have to grant the divorce if, after that, the other party still wanted a divorce. [Rog']

Response:

K.  Clearly I am being misunderstood.  I don’t want to countersue.  I can’t be bothered.  I don’t want to be vengeful and bitchy. My husband is the plainiff and I’m the defendant.  At present we are missing paperwork that will allow us to get divorced.  According to the judge we are missing a decree of divorce or something.  Now my husband has had sex with someone since we seperated.  Now he wants to reconcile.  I don’t want to reconcile.  Hes already threatened that he will fight this if I say I don’t want to reconcile.  I don’t even know if he can since he is the plainiff. I suppose I just want this over with as quickly as possible.

I can’t see a judge, having heard your story, holding this up. He’ll wanna bang the gavel, and be done with it.  All I wanted to know was if my husband won’t file the necessary paperwork will it make any difference to speed up my case if I give my reasons for not wanting to reconcile which is the adultery issue. Believe me.  Not interested in all this legal bullshit.  I just know my husband is going to put up a fight, drag his heels and god knows how long this is going to take.  I just want it over and done with as quickly as possible so I can get on with my life.

I think a lot of peoples’ point was that his "infidelity" is likely not going to be an issue, one way or the other. If you want out,…you’re gonna get out. HE filed. Thanks so much for your brutally honest advice people.  I was asking a simple question and you all tear me a new asshole.  Always nice to read responds to my posts that make me feel like crap.  Thanks!!!

Welcome to ASD! :^) We’re honest, if nothing else. You have to remember that a lot of us have axes to grind,… if you *know* that,…it’s easier to winnow out the chaff. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Karen

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow.  I didn’t realize he could retract his petition.  I guess I assumed that since we both had to sign the original paperwork that I would have to sign the paperwork to retract the divorce.  The law makes my head hurt. Hmmmm…my only concern with him potentially retracting his petition for divorce is that now I’ll have to file the paperwork and therefore pay for it, which I can’t afford at the moment.  My husband is a prograstinator and for him to actually retract the petition would mean too much work for him so it likely wouldn’t happen once he realizes whats involved.  Oh well.  I’m not going to worry about it yet. Thanks for you help.  Sorry for the confusion.  This is why email some times sucks.  So easy for things to be misunderstood.  I’m exhausted this week. Too much stuff going on.  Clearly I wasn’t paying attention to what I was trying to say.  :-) Thanks Ryan.  I would like to think that he will get his one day.  Not that I’m wishing for that but what he did is unforgiveable.  Yet he claims to love me.  Errrr….thats love?  He needs to write me a defination of love because my idea of love is way different. Karen

Response:

   The law makes my head hurt.

(((Karen))) Yer not alone there.

Response:

Wow.  I didn’t realize he could retract his petition.  I guess I assumed that since we both had to sign the original paperwork that I would have to sign the paperwork to retract the divorce.  The law makes my head hurt. Hmmmm…my only concern with him potentially retracting his petition for divorce is that now I’ll have to file the paperwork and therefore pay for it, which I can’t afford at the moment.  My husband is a prograstinator and for him to actually retract the petition would mean too much work for him so it likely wouldn’t happen once he realizes whats involved.  Oh well.  I’m not going to worry about it yet.

Couldn’t you just file the missing paperwork and proceed with the divorce already filed? Lori Mc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for you help.  Sorry for the confusion.  This is why email some times sucks.  So easy for things to be misunderstood.  I’m exhausted this week. Too much stuff going on.  Clearly I wasn’t paying attention to what I was trying to say.  :-) Thanks Ryan.  I would like to think that he will get his one day. Not that I’m wishing for that but what he did is unforgiveable.  Yet he claims to love me.  Errrr….thats love?  He needs to write me a defination of love because my idea of love is way different. Karen

Response:

I could if I knew just what I needed.  :-)  Thats what I’m trying to find out.  I’m going to call the judge or courthouse on Monday to find out exactly what I need.  According to the letter that I was sent we didn’t fill out a ‘decree of divorce’.  I can’t find any paperwork online anywhere or any forms that are a decree of divorce.  I thought a decree of divorce was the divorce paperwork itself.  I understand that its actually the final decree of divorce that is the actual divorce itself. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Couldn’t you just file the missing paperwork and proceed with the divorce already filed? Lori Mc

Response:

Thanks so much for your brutally honest advice people.  I was asking a simple question and you all tear me a new asshole.  Always nice to read responds to my posts that make me feel like crap.  Thanks!!!

Sorry about that.  I just know that  I got stuck in a position where I wanted vengence, adn there was no benefit to it. Didn’t mean to rip you a new ahem. As to this post, all I can suggest is roll with the punches.  If he doesn’t file the paperwork, then make motions to have it go to a summery judgement. There are always ways . . . he can’t hang it up forever.  And if he fights it, what’s he going to tell the judge?  "Yer Honour, now, Eye slept wid sum other womenz, and now my dat here wife, well, yer honour, she dont wanna be my wife no more, even though I filed for deevorce!" Yeah, that will come across well. Rambler

Response:

Karen, don’t have an answer to your question. never been married or divorced, though I know how bad adultery is, and, all I have to say is, those who commit adultery are among the lowest scum on this earth.  I don’t really care what state conciders certain things adultery or not. all that counts is what a person knows is right or wrong. If someone feels what they are doing might be adultery, even if it might be concidered "acceptable" in certain circles, or in certain places, it probably *is* adultery, anyway. does that make sense? I’m deeply sorry if your husband commited adultery on you.  you didn’t deserve that, and, he is a real bastard for it. assuming he did in fact commit adultery, have an affair, a fling, or whatever, he has something coming to him. in other words, he’ll get his, one way or another – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was reading some frequently asked questions about divorce earlier (online ofcourse) and read the question ‘Can I date while I’m seperated?’  The answer was that while two people are still married it is still classified as adultery even though they are seperated.  I imagine this varies from State to State but does anybody know the validity to this? I was considering counter sueing (for lack of a better word) my husband for divorce.  With him not wanting to get divorced now I can predict I have a hell of a fight on my hands.  I don’t even know if filing charges of adultery is possible after we have already filed for divorce.  Anyone had any experience with this? Peace Karen

Response:

I was reading some frequently asked questions about divorce earlier (online of course) and read the question ‘Can I date while I’m seperated?’  The answer was that while two people are still married it is still classified as adultery even though they are seperated.  I imagine this varies from State to State but does anybody know the validity to this? I was considering counter sueing (for lack of a better word) my husband for divorce.  With him not wanting to get divorced now I can predict I have a hell of a fight on my hands.  I don’t even know if filing charges of adultery is possible after we have already filed for divorce.  Anyone had any experience with this?

In brief, use of "grounds" may or may not help you.  Each state has its own rules about when and how they may be used.  If it does help you under the laws of your state, you may be able to amend your petition or complaint to add these grounds.  The rules of procedure determine whether the amendment is a matter of right or require leave (approval) from the court. Generally, and YMMV, "grounds" such as this can be used only for limited purposes:  1. If the other party is claiming alimony, the fact that he or she may be shacked up with someone else can be used to limit the award.  2. In some states, there is a longer waiting period for a no-fault divorce and "grounds" are used to overcome the delay. 3. Some states use "grounds" to process a divorce from a covenant marriage, although this may be optional.   [Roger]

Response:

Karen … I have followed your postings. You are all over the map with your questions, and your emotions. You seem to be having a hard time excepting reality. I’m Not unsympathetic to what you’re going through now, honest. But little lady, you’re wasting a lot of precious time spinning your wheels. You gotta get up off your ass and get out into the world. You were able to snag one guy, a loser no doubt, maybe next time you’ll be luckier. This time try a little harder to find out what makes the next guy tick, so you don’t make the same mistake twice. nm

Response:

K.  Clearly I am being misunderstood.  I don’t want to countersue.  I can’t be bothered.  I don’t want to be vengeful and bitchy. My husband is the plainiff and I’m the defendant.  At present we are missing paperwork that will allow us to get divorced.  According to the judge we are missing a decree of divorce or something.  Now my husband has had sex with someone since we seperated.  Now he wants to reconcile.  I don’t want to reconcile.  Hes already threatened that he will fight this if I say I don’t want to reconcile.  I don’t even know if he can since he is the plainiff.  I suppose I just want this over with as quickly as possible.  All I wanted to know was if my husband won’t file the necessary paperwork will it make any difference to speed up my case if I give my reasons for not wanting to reconcile which is the adultery issue. Believe me.  Not interested in all this legal bullshit.  I just know my husband is going to put up a fight, drag his heels and god knows how long this is going to take.  I just want it over and done with as quickly as possible so I can get on with my life. Thanks so much for your brutally honest advice people.  I was asking a simple question and you all tear me a new asshole.  Always nice to read responds to my posts that make me feel like crap.  Thanks!!! Karen

Response:

 All I wanted to know was if my husband won’t file the  necessary paperwork will it make any difference to  speed up my case if I give my reasons for not wanting  to reconcile which is the adultery issue. But that’s not what you asked. Your first post was really confusing and not full of the information you just gave in this one. Short version (and, remember, IANAL), if your husband has filed for divorce, he and only he can take that back, so to speak. He can withdraw his petition for divorce if he so desires, as I understand it. If he doesn’t withdraw the petition but refuses to file the paperwork the judge is requiring, I would imagine that the divorce will not go through. It would then be up to you to either supply the paperwork being asked for or to refile for divorce. Now, if he doesn’t withdraw the petition, files the paperwork asked for, but doesn’t show up for court and sign the final decree, I don’t know what will happen then. It’s entirely possible to get a divorce (at least in the state of Indiana it was about 17 years ago) to get a divorce with only one person signing any papers. So that might be the route you have to take if he insists on not wanting the divorce.  Thanks so much for your brutally honest advice people.  I was asking a simple question You might have thought you were asking a simple question, but it’s obvious from the replies that nobody understood what you were asking.  and you all tear me a new asshole. I re-read all of the replies. Only one reply, to my eyes, comes close to ‘tearing you a new asshole’ and that one is pretty mild. The rest of them seemed to be making sin- cere efforts to answer the question they *thought* you were asking and to address the situation that they *thought* you were presenting. Calm down a little bit and remember, the people here aren’t your husband. Tracey Always nice to read responds to my posts that make me feel like crap.  Thanks!!!

Response:

K.  Clearly I am being misunderstood.  I don’t want to countersue.  I can’t be bothered.  I don’t want to be vengeful and bitchy. My husband is the plainiff and I’m the defendant.  At present we are missing paperwork that will allow us to get divorced.  According to the judge we are missing a decree of divorce or something.  Now my husband has had sex with someone since we seperated.  Now he wants to reconcile.  I don’t want to reconcile.  Hes already threatened that he will fight this if I say I don’t want to reconcile.

OK….this is all information that was either not provided in your first post, or that I overlooked.  I think the "countersue for adultry" thing perhaps was the wrong phrasing, because to me it sounded a little bit vengeful (don’t get me wrong, I think you have every right to be pissed off and upset about your STBX’s actions). Believe me.  Not interested in all this legal bullshit.  I just know my husband is going to put up a fight, drag his heels and god knows how long this is going to take.  I just want it over and done with as quickly as possible so I can get on with my life.

I don’t blame you a bit for wanting to get this over with.  If he has now changed his mind (funny way to show it, by sleeping with another woman), then he can withdraw his petition to divorce.  There is nothing preventing you from then filing, or at least I can’t think of anything that would prevent you from doing so. Thanks so much for your brutally honest advice people.  I was asking a simple question and you all tear me a new asshole.  Always nice to read responds to my posts that make me feel like crap.  Thanks!!!

Wow.  If I made you feel this way, then I’m sorry.  Again, this most recent post of yours provided a lot more information than "how can I countersue him for adultry" (when I hadn’t heard you mention another woman before; in fact, I thought you went out of your way to say there wasn’t another woman and that he had just changed his mind about being married.  But maybe I’m confusing your situation with another). Lauri in WA I like my email spamless

Response:

I was considering counter sueing (for lack of a better word) my husband for divorce.  With him not wanting to get divorced now I can predict I have a hell of a fight on my hands.  I don’t even know if filing charges of adultery is possible after we have already filed for divorce.  Anyone had any experience with this? Peace

I find it kind of ironic that you sign your posts "Peace", when your actionw seem to be based on vengence.  Do you really want peace? You’re good and pissed off at him right now, and that’s quite probably justified.  But I really do not understand this game that you seem to be playing.  First he wanted to get divorced, and packed you off to Canada with your parents, crying and upset.  Then he says he doesn’t want divorced, but now you say to hell with THAT and you’ll counter-sue his ass (plus you want alimony for a marriage that was only a few months in duration).  And what does adultry have to do with this situation, anyway?  If he’s seeing someone, why wouldn’t he want a divorce from you?  And if he’s NOT seeing someone, how could you sue him for adultry? If I may be quite honest, it seems to me that you guys just  don’t have the maturity to be married at all.  I don’t know if you ever specifically said that you met over the internet, but that was my impression.  Might it not be best to chalk this marriage up as an ill-advised mistake between two people who didn’t know each other very well, and let it go at that? Lauri in WA I like my email spamless

Response:

I was reading some frequently asked questions about divorce earlier (online ofcourse) and read the question ‘Can I date while I’m seperated?’  The answer was that while two people are still married it is still classified as adultery even though they are seperated.  I imagine this varies from State to State but does anybody know the validity to this? I was considering counter sueing (for lack of a better word) my husband for divorce.  With him not wanting to get divorced now I can predict I have a hell of a fight on my hands.  I don’t even know if filing charges of adultery is possible after we have already filed for divorce.  Anyone had any experience with this? Peace Karen

Response:

I was reading some frequently asked questions about divorce earlier (online ofcourse) and read the question ‘Can I date while I’m seperated?’  The answer was that while two people are still married it is still classified as adultery even though they are seperated.  I imagine this varies from State to State but does anybody know the validity to this? I was considering counter sueing (for lack of a better word) my husband for divorce.  With him not wanting to get divorced now I can predict I have a hell of a fight on my hands.  I don’t even know if filing charges of adultery is possible after we have already filed for divorce.  Anyone had any experience with this?

Karen, Not sure what point you are driving at here, other than pain on your part. 1) My understanding is yes, it is still adultery.  Adultery, as defined, is sex between a married participant and someone other than their spouse (I won’t get into the definition nuances . . . that was debated ad nauseum in here a couple months ago). 2) So what?  Typically, in both the US and Common Law countries, adultery is largely irrelevant, at least to the divorce process.  It effects nothing (i.e. the financial settlement or the custodial settlement), but is merely a reason for divorce.  In the US, in I think all States (though I am not sure on that) has ye old no-fault divorce (Common Law countries  Unreasonable Behaviour). 3) I am not understanding your situation.  You said that a) he doesn’t want to get divorced, b) you all have already filed, and c) you want to counter-sue.  Why? 4) Annecdote on my part.  Ex left mein December a couple years ago.  January I get a letter from her solicitors – ex wants a divorce: grounds – my Unreasonable Behaviour.  I thought, "To hell with that!  She is the one who up and left me, took the kids, shut the entire ‘dream’ down.  She wants a divorce, fine, but I will not be the Defendant.  I’ll give her her divorce, and she can be the Respondent in an Unreasonable Behaviour petition – hers!" This was duly communicated across to her solicitors.  A week letter I get another response: How about we both petition for Unreasonable Behaviour (cross-petition).  Again I think I’ll be damned if I am going to accept a petition.  She petitions, I’ll defend it. Now, my solicitors thought that was a really stupid idea.  Why defend a petition when you don’t want to be married anyway.  And that is what it really comes down to. You want a divorce.  He doesn’t.  Trust me on this, you want to make this as painless as possible for him, even if he wronged you six ways to hell, and most, most, most especially if you have kids (can’t remember).  If he wronged you, you don’t want to try and cause him pain, because that is only going to drag things out, and remember you want a divorce.  it’s not going to affect the final solutions.  If you have kids, well, believe you me, the last thing you want to do is piss him off, otherwise he might start acting like me and make your life a living hell. Why worry about it. Believe it or not, he is going to stew in his own stuff anyway.  Let him.  Move on. Rambler

Response:

update & question

Question:

Met with an attorney (also a mediator) about my situation. I’m more optimistic things will be OK. I also talked to Deb and I think I was able to work through some of her defensiveness. I’d like to work out a way for her to keep the house and retain residential custody; I would have our daughter every other weekend and a weeknight every other week. Deb’s interested in co-parenting, so I think it will be flexible and I’ll be able to see and talk to my daughter more frequently. I know some in this group feel Deb’s behavior with our daughter could be harmful; I’d like to reiterate that while it has been harmful to our marriage, I don’t feel like it has been terribly detrimental to my daughter. One thing that I need to work through is the cost. Retaining one attorney is going to be at least $2,500, so if we’re both represented the costs *start* at five grand (mediation is above and beyond this, I think $200/session). Is anyone aware of any other alternatives? I need help with the legal nuts and bolts, but if we’re not going to fight (and I think it’s possible we won’t), are there any smaller guns I could hire? If anyone has divorced using an alternative to having two attorneys, or has information/URLs, I’d love to hear from you. Sam

Response:

If you two can get your act together and *responsibly communicate* with each other, you could *both* save all those expensive legal fees, which will come out of both of your hides.  Is it worth it, to both of you? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Met with an attorney (also a mediator) about my situation. I’m more optimistic things will be OK. I also talked to Deb and I think I was able to work through some of her defensiveness. I’d like to work out a way for her to keep the house and retain residential custody; I would have our daughter every other weekend and a weeknight every other week. Deb’s interested in co-parenting, so I think it will be flexible and I’ll be able to see and talk to my daughter more frequently. I know some in this group feel Deb’s behavior with our daughter could be harmful; I’d like to reiterate that while it has been harmful to our marriage, I don’t feel like it has been terribly detrimental to my daughter. One thing that I need to work through is the cost. Retaining one attorney is going to be at least $2,500, so if we’re both represented the costs *start* at five grand (mediation is above and beyond this, I think $200/session). Is anyone aware of any other alternatives? I need help with the legal nuts and bolts, but if we’re not going to fight (and I think it’s possible we won’t), are there any smaller guns I could hire? If anyone has divorced using an alternative to having two attorneys, or has information/URLs, I’d love to hear from you. Sam

Response:

Sam, when I finally did get my divorce, we wrote it up ourselves. We didn’t pay a dime to attorney’s.  It’s called a marital settlement agreement.  We presented it to the judge, it was signed, and was binding.  We didn’t even go to court, we mailed it in, and we were both mailed back a copy with the judge’s original signature.   I made sure that we accounted for almost every eventuality in it, because while we were very congenial with each other during that time, I didn’t know if the situation would remain that way.  We did not have a separate parenting agreement.  We covered all of that, down to what holidays she spent where,  in the marital settlement agreement.  I would stay away from any kind of wording that could be open to interpretation, like "reasonable visitation".  Spell it all out. Here are three links to sample parenting and marital settlement agreements. You have to personalize them so that they cover your particular situation. Mine was pretty lengthy, and probably redundant, but I wanted to ensure that everything in it was very clear to avoid as much as possible any potential of heading back to court in the future. Good luck. http://my.execpc.com/~jluscher/sprigf/jpa.html http://www.me.vccs.edu/dept/bustech/lgl230/sepagre5.html http://www.divorcetn.com/mda.htm Hope these help. Pamela – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Met with an attorney (also a mediator) about my situation. I’m more optimistic things will be OK. I also talked to Deb and I think I was able to work through some of her defensiveness. I’d like to work out a way for her to keep the house and retain residential custody; I would have our daughter every other weekend and a weeknight every other week. Deb’s interested in co-parenting, so I think it will be flexible and I’ll be able to see and talk to my daughter more frequently. I know some in this group feel Deb’s behavior with our daughter could be harmful; I’d like to reiterate that while it has been harmful to our marriage, I don’t feel like it has been terribly detrimental to my daughter. One thing that I need to work through is the cost. Retaining one attorney is going to be at least $2,500, so if we’re both represented the costs *start* at five grand (mediation is above and beyond this, I think $200/session). Is anyone aware of any other alternatives? I need help with the legal nuts and bolts, but if we’re not going to fight (and I think it’s possible we won’t), are there any smaller guns I could hire? If anyone has divorced using an alternative to having two attorneys, or has information/URLs, I’d love to hear from you. Sam

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sam, when I finally did get my divorce, we wrote it up ourselves. We didn’t pay a dime to attorney’s.  It’s called a marital settlement agreement.  We presented it to the judge, it was signed, and was binding.  We didn’t even go to court, we mailed it in, and we were both mailed back a copy with the judge’s original signature.   I made sure that we accounted for almost every eventuality in it, because while we were very congenial with each other during that time, I didn’t know if the situation would remain that way.  We did not have a separate parenting agreement.  We covered all of that, down to what holidays she spent where,  in the marital settlement agreement.  I would stay away from any kind of wording that could be open to interpretation, like "reasonable visitation".  Spell it all out. Here are three links to sample parenting and marital settlement agreements. You have to personalize them so that they cover your particular situation. Mine was pretty lengthy, and probably redundant, but I wanted to ensure that everything in it was very clear to avoid as much as possible any potential of heading back to court in the future. Good luck. http://my.execpc.com/~jluscher/sprigf/jpa.html http://www.me.vccs.edu/dept/bustech/lgl230/sepagre5.html http://www.divorcetn.com/mda.htm Hope these help. Pamela

Thanks, Pamela! The links are great, and now I have words I can search for!

Response:

If you two can get your act together and *responsibly communicate* with each other, you could *both* save all those expensive legal fees, which will come out of both of your hides.  Is it worth it, to both of you?

I feel it is, and I believe my wife feels it is too. Maybe we’ll be better at divorce than we’ve been at marriage? That’d be ironic but nice.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sam, If you think the two of you can work out an amicable agreement, you may not need a mediator. My ex and I worked out the details ourselves, then had our attorneys review our plan.  Mine made one minor change; his made none.   I’d also bought one of those "DIY" books with forms for my state.  I’d already completed many of the forms myself.  I emailed these to my lawyer and she used them as the basis for my paperwork.  So that saved me some "time & preparation" fees. I paid her a $1000 retainer + filing fees.  I think I ended up paying her another $200 over & above the retainer.  Not sure what my ex’s lawyer cost.  I do think it’s advisable for both of you to have your own lawyer, though — it just reduces the chance that one person will later claim unfair treatment. Barb

Thanks, Barb. Maybe I’ll poke around some book stores this weekend and see if I can’t find a do-it-yourself divorce book. That’s the one area I don’t know how to tackle. I think Deb and I will be able to settle any differences we have between us; now we need the paperwork to make it binding.

Response:

The next step up money wise from the below is the divorce on-line option. It’s only available in some states thus far and costs under $400 I believe.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sam, when I finally did get my divorce, we wrote it up ourselves. We didn’t pay a dime to attorney’s.  It’s called a marital settlement agreement.  We presented it to the judge, it was signed, and was binding.  We didn’t even go to court, we mailed it in, and we were both mailed back a copy with the judge’s original signature.   I made sure that we accounted for almost every eventuality in it, because while we were very congenial with each other during that time, I didn’t know if the situation would remain that way. We did not have a separate parenting agreement.  We covered all of that, down to what holidays she spent where,  in the marital settlement agreement.  I would stay away from any kind of wording that could be open to interpretation, like "reasonable visitation".  Spell it all out. Here are three links to sample parenting and marital settlement agreements. You have to personalize them so that they cover your particular situation. Mine was pretty lengthy, and probably redundant, but I wanted to ensure that everything in it was very clear to avoid as much as possible any potential of heading back to court in the future. Good luck. http://my.execpc.com/~jluscher/sprigf/jpa.html http://www.me.vccs.edu/dept/bustech/lgl230/sepagre5.html http://www.divorcetn.com/mda.htm Hope these help. Pamela Met with an attorney (also a mediator) about my situation. I’m more optimistic things will be OK. I also talked to Deb and I think I was able to work through some of her defensiveness. I’d like to work out a way for her to keep the house and retain residential custody; I would have our daughter every other weekend and a weeknight every other week. Deb’s interested in co-parenting, so I think it will be flexible and I’ll be able to see and talk to my daughter more frequently. I know some in this group feel Deb’s behavior with our daughter could be harmful; I’d like to reiterate that while it has been harmful to our marriage, I don’t feel like it has been terribly detrimental to my daughter. One thing that I need to work through is the cost. Retaining one attorney is going to be at least $2,500, so if we’re both represented the costs *start* at five grand (mediation is above and beyond this, I think $200/session). Is anyone aware of any other alternatives? I need help with the legal nuts and bolts, but if we’re not going to fight (and I think it’s possible we won’t), are there any smaller guns I could hire? If anyone has divorced using an alternative to having two attorneys, or has information/URLs, I’d love to hear from you. Sam

Response:

Hi Sam! If you guys can work out an effective parenting agreement it may be possible for you both to write it up and present it to the court for approval. This may save you both in the end. Good luck with this..and it’s great to see you both working this out amicably Temily – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Met with an attorney (also a mediator) about my situation. I’m more optimistic things will be OK. I also talked to Deb and I think I was able to work through some of her defensiveness. I’d like to work out a way for her to keep the house and retain residential custody; I would have our daughter every other weekend and a weeknight every other week. Deb’s interested in co-parenting, so I think it will be flexible and I’ll be able to see and talk to my daughter more frequently. I know some in this group feel Deb’s behavior with our daughter could be harmful; I’d like to reiterate that while it has been harmful to our marriage, I don’t feel like it has been terribly detrimental to my daughter. One thing that I need to work through is the cost. Retaining one attorney is going to be at least $2,500, so if we’re both represented the costs *start* at five grand (mediation is above and beyond this, I think $200/session). Is anyone aware of any other alternatives? I need help with the legal nuts and bolts, but if we’re not going to fight (and I think it’s possible we won’t), are there any smaller guns I could hire? If anyone has divorced using an alternative to having two attorneys, or has information/URLs, I’d love to hear from you. Sam

Response:

Thanks, Barb. Maybe I’ll poke around some book stores this weekend and see if I can’t find a do-it-yourself divorce book. That’s the one area I don’t know how to tackle. I think Deb and I will be able to settle any differences we have between us; now we need the paperwork to make it binding.

Sam, Nolo Press has one of the best books around for doing your own divorce, and has them by state.  You can get it at any bookstore.

Response:

Sam, Nolo Press has one of the best books around for doing your own divorce, and has them by state.  You can get it at any bookstore.

Thanks, Pamela! I’ll look for it this weekend.

Response:

I would have our  daughter every other weekend and a weeknight every other

week. You are satisfied with this?  What kind of a relationship do you expect to have and keep with your daughter with so little time? Why not every weekend, a weeknight every week? One thing that I need to work through is the cost. Retaining one attorney is going to be at least $2,500, so if we’re both represented the costs *start* at five grand (mediation is above and beyond this, I think $200/session). Is anyone aware of any other alternatives? I need help with the legal nuts and bolts, but if we’re not going to fight (and I think it’s possible we won’t), are there any smaller guns I could hire?

If you’re computer literate, you may be able to download and fill out your own paperwork, and simply have your attorney review for completeness and accuracy.  My divorce (I got custody of our daughter) cost me $750.00 total. -b

Response:

You are satisfied with this?  What kind of a relationship do you expect to have and keep with your daughter with so little time? Why not every weekend, a weeknight every week?

Every weekend seems unfair to my tbx, and in a way to my daughter. I hope to live in the same area, but if I can’t, why should I think it’s OK to take my daughter away from her friends every weekend? I might ask for a weeknight every week, and I hope I’ll see her more than just one day a week anyway. If you’re computer literate, you may be able to download and fill out your own paperwork, and simply have your attorney review for completeness and accuracy.  My divorce (I got custody of our daughter) cost me $750.00 total. -b

Did you download forms? If so, from where?

Response:

Every weekend seems unfair to my tbx, and in a way to my daughter. I hope to live in the same area, but if I can’t, why should I think it’s OK to take my daughter away from her friends every weekend? I might ask for a weeknight every week, and I hope I’ll see her more than just one day a week anyway.

I can understand this.  My kids don’t want to spend weekends with me, and i can’t see forcing them to.  They want to be at their house with their computers and where their friends live and their dog, etc. etc.  Why force them to come up here with me if they don’t want to.  They like me to come to visit them at their house. Each individual situation is different.

Response:

Every weekend seems unfair to my tbx, and in a way to my daughter. I hope to live in the same area, but if I can’t, why should I think it’s OK to take my daughter away from her friends every weekend? I might ask for a weeknight every week, and I hope I’ll see her more than just one day a week anyway.

When my ex was seeing my daughter, it was really very informal.  They would go out and play tennis a night or two during the week, maybe catch a movie, or have dinner.  He usually saw her at least twice during the week.  If she didn’t have something else she wanted to do, she would usually spend a weekend day and night with him. Sometimes she would even spend the whole weekend, and sometimes the weekend would go by without her seeing him at all.  He would just call, and they would decided what they were going to do, and when they were going to get together, dependent on everyone’s schedule. It was very free wheeling, and no one felt obliged or confined to a certain schedule.  In the papers, however, the schedule was very explicit.  I did that just in case there were problems later.  It turned out the only problem we had was that he stopped coming around last May. It’s been pretty difficult for her lately..

Response:

ML — You talk about this a lot — not wanting to force your kids to do things they don’t want to do (like come to YOUR house to spend time with you rather than you always going to visit THEM). But I wonder if sometimes you don’t bend over too far to accomodate their needs.  Part of growing and maturing is learning that loving others means putting our own needs aside occasionally.  

You could be right about that.  Also, it could be a lot of guilt i have that i haven’t given them the "ideal" family situation that i wish i could have given them.  (like many of us here probably feel). Even after 4 1/2 years, i’m STILL having trouble dealing with living in a separate household from my kids.  I think when they were young i may have obsessed over them too much, and if it’s possible, become TOO attached to them.  I’ve "moved on" in every other aspect of my life except this. Thanks for the words here.  I have a feeling it may still be awhile before i wade thru this part, and it helps immensely to throw these feeling out there and get some feedback.  Sometimes i wonder if i get too emotional about it and need a reality-check. I just told my son that, sometime this week-end, we need to fit in a visit with his grandmother (at HER place).  It’s not something he’s especially thrilled about — there are other things he’d rather do. But family is family, and sometimes that means we do things for them (or with them) when we’d rather be doing something else.  We usually survive )

Yep.   Grandparents’ house can be pretty boring for kids sometimes. And family IS family…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ML — I decided to divorce 3 weeks after returning from a 6 month assignment abroad.  Away from my (then) husband and son.   Within 3 months of coming home, I was separated and sharing week-to-week custody.  It was devastating. I sought some kind of support group for divorcing people who were suffering from being apart from their kids.  There was no such thing. Truth is, it hurt breaking up from my ex — but not having my kid asleep under the same roof every night was absolutely killing me (he was only 10 at the time). So — I understand what you’re saying.  We agonize over how we’ve damaged our kids’ lives, how we’re now "imperfect" parents.  But I’ve spent enough time with intact families to know they’re not perfect parents, either.   Long-term, I think knowing they are loved counts for a lot more with our kids than we give them credit for.

Thanks.  :-) I think i’ll keep this post.

Response:

Every weekend seems unfair to my tbx, and in a way to my daughter.

How about 3 out of 4 weekends? I hope  to live in the same area, but if I can’t,

Why couldn’t you? why should I think it’s OK to  take my daughter away from her friends

every weekend? Just fine to deprive her of time with her father? Did you download forms? If so, from where?

Provided by my state and county court system via the web.  Try using a search engine. -b

Response:

Every weekend seems unfair to my tbx, and in a way to my daughter. How about 3 out of 4 weekends?

At this point I feel it’s in everyone’s best interests if we reach a compromise we can both feel good about. Telling Deb I didn’t want to "split" our daughter really lowered her defenses and enabled us to have a reasonable conversation about divorce, and that for the first time. I’ll keep the 3 out of 4 option in the back of my mind, but I think I’d be better served by splitting weekends 50/50 and trying to get more weeknight time informally. I know that raises hackles, but that’s where I’m at right now. I hope  to live in the same area, but if I can’t, Why couldn’t you?

I could definitely rent, but buying would be a stretch, especially if Deb stays in the house. Real estate here has appreciated considerably; I doubt very much we could afford our own house now. Eventually I’d like to own a place, be it a condo or house; I don’t think I could swing that here. By the way, for me "here" means walking distance for my daughter. "There" is anywhere that would require she or I get in a car to visit. I have no intention of moving outside the metropolitan area. why should I think it’s OK to  take my daughter away from her friends every weekend? Just fine to deprive her of time with her father?

As I mentioned before, I don’t want my contact to be limited to two weekends per month, but I think I have a better shot at seeing my daughter weeknights than I do negotiating for 3 out of 4 weekends and maintaining a spirit of cooperation with my tbx. She’s not a bad parent, Barb. And I believe that in her heart she’s not an unfair person. Did you download forms? If so, from where? Provided by my state and county court system via the web.  Try using a search engine. -b

Well, duh. I just googled ‘divorce forms illinois’ and got a boatload of forms on the first page returned. I’m smart most of the time, honest! Thanks, Barb. Sam

Response:

Sam, To be clear, the person you were addressing here is b.allen, not me. Barb

Doh, sorry. Do we know what b-’s name is? I thought it was Barb also.

Response:

Nope – only that it’s a he, not a she. Barb Doh, sorry. Do we know what b-’s name is? I thought it was Barb also.

Wow, even electronically I can put my foot in my mouth. How’s that for multi-talented?

Response:

What is B. Allen’s first name?   That would help sort this out, wouldn’t it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sam, To be clear, the person you were addressing here is b.allen, not me. Barb Doh, sorry. Do we know what b-’s name is? I thought it was Barb also.

Response:

Legal forms?

Question:

just do a search on divorce and forms. Everything will depend on your state. If I know the state I might be able to provide some links. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where I might find free or REASONABLY priced downloadable divorce forms for an uncontested divorce?

Response:

Does anyone know where I might find free or REASONABLY priced downloadable divorce forms for an uncontested divorce? Among many other helpful links and book recommendations, there is a link for "Free Legal Forms" on this newsgroup’s website at: http://www.altsupportdivorce.org/  – click on "Resources"

Are those Forms endorsed by an ATTORNEY? Ray Gordon, GENIUS http://www.cybersheet.com

Response:

Does anyone know where I might find free or REASONABLY priced downloadable divorce forms for an uncontested divorce? Among many other helpful links and book recommendations, there is a link for "Free Legal Forms" on this newsgroup’s website at: http://www.altsupportdivorce.org/  – click on "Resources" Are those Forms endorsed by an ATTORNEY? Ray Gordon, GENIUS

(To avoid seeing this message please filter it via the name "ADVISORY") The previous post was made by "Ray Gordon", real name Gordon Roy Parker. Be aware this individual is known to be extremely disruptive in the newsgroups he visits. He makes high volumes of posts sometimes in excess of 60 posts in 24 hours. His actions include:    - being extremely offensive and inflamatory    - deliberately provoking and antagonizing people    - spamming Usenet with advertisements for his website and products    - making accusations and claims of conspiracies, insisting he      has proof, but not providing any    - threatening people with lawsuits and litigation on an almost      DAILY BASIS. He has threatened people with legal action literally      hundreds, perhaps thousands, of times. (In eight years he only      actually sued one person from      Usenet. While seeking thousands of dollars in judgement, he      eventually settled for a token $250 settlemen)    - claiming he is in contact with numerous law enforcement agencies      and that action against his detractors is imminent and will be      "beyond their imagination". (Nothing has materialized after 8 years)    - contradicting himself and lying    - claiming he was Jesus in a past life Some individuals have also reported being harassed by him offline, with complaints being sent to the abuse department of their ISP’s or having their employers contacted by phone. Mr Parker is known to be 35 years old and living with his mother. * * * New readers are encouraged to familiarize themselves with Ray’s posting history, opinions and mental illness. Be sure to check out www.Ray-Gordon.com and click the "RayFaq" button on the top left. The site contains many of his archived posts. The site is NOT affiliated with "Ray", who’s real name is Gordon Roy Parker, and he has made numerous threats of legal action against it. * * * Some other quotes from "Ray Gordon": "There was no significant loss of life in those towers… NOT A ONE"    Ray Gordon, real name: Gordon Roy Parker, September 11 2001 "A bunch of *ASSHOLE* New Yorkers died… don’t grieve"    Ray Gordon, real name: Gordon Roy Parker, September 11 2001 * * * Has Ray given you the impression that he runs a successful, profitable business? Or that he commands expensive fees for his work? Then you may be interested to know that he can’t even afford to pay his taxes. The IRS filed a tax lien of OVER TWELVE THOUSAND DOLLARS against him and his Mom (whom he lives with) which they STILL haven’t been able to pay off AFTER SIX YEARS. You can view the official document HERE: (cut and paste the ENTIRE link onto a single line in your browser – will require two separate pastes to get both lines onto single browser line) http://dns2.phila.gov:8080/fjd/owa/zk_fjd_public_qry_03.zp_dktrpt_fra… =970620114

Response:

Does anyone know where I might find free or REASONABLY priced downloadable divorce forms for an uncontested divorce?

Response:

By a Nolo Press book on "do your own divorce" That’s what I did. It came with all the forms I needed for my state in Adobe PDF form. Very helpful. Robert – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where I might find free or REASONABLY priced downloadable divorce forms for an uncontested divorce?

Response:

    I would think the clerk of the court would be able to provide those for you, free of charge. You and your s2bx fill them, out sign them, and return them. Does anyone know where I might find free or REASONABLY priced downloadable divorce forms for an uncontested divorce?

– Cry havoc! and let loose the dogs of war, That this foul deed shall smell above the earth. With carrion men, groaning for burial. – William Shakespeare (1564-1616), British dramatist, poet. Antony, in Julius Caesar, act 3, sc. 1.

Response:

do your own divorce

Question:

i live in alabama and i am looking for divorce forms for a divorce in marshall county  i do not know where my husband is i have tried to find him and can not i haven’t even spoken to him in over three years i can’t afford a lawyer and i have not figured out anything else that i can do if anyone knows anything that would be remotely helpful it would be greatly appreicated

Response:

I actually found this site today, while looking for a sample waiver.  Check out http://www.quickcase.net/.  Although they want you to buy the software(for attys), they have all the sample forms online.  Just prepare your forms off of those. Libby

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -i live in alabama and i am looking for divorce forms for a divorce in marshall county  i do not know where my husband is i have tried to find him and can not i haven’t even spoken to him in over three years i can’t afford a lawyer and i have not figured out anything else that i can do if anyone knows anything that would be remotely helpful it would be greatly appreicated

Response:

North Carolina

Question:

Thank you for the advise. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not licensed to practice law in NC or Georgia.  A NC attorney can do a better job of explaining NC divorce law than I can (since I know nothing of NC divorce law).  So, what follows is only a guess and not legal advice (unlicensed practice of law is frowned upon): If I met the residency requirements for NC (in Fla. its 6 mos.), I would file in NC.  I would want to be in a Court that has jurisdiction over the property.  I would file in the County in which she lives (if its NC) or where the property is located, but venue (the county) can be changed by agreement of the parties.  Its possible that she could counter-file in Georgia (if she’s lives there and if that is where you both last cohabitated as husband and wife).  If you and she can agree on a division of assets and liabilites, check with the Clerk for "simplified" or uncontested divorce forms.  In Florida, both parties have to show up for a "simplified" divorce. Otherwise, you should get an attorney. Good Luck. No kids.  We lived in Georgia last.  We married in Florida but did not live in Florida when we were married.  Only property is our home in Charlotte which we recently purchased.  Assets would be retirement plans, stocks (under $2500) and our personal possessions.

Response:

I’m not licensed to practice law in NC or Georgia.  A NC attorney can do a better job of explaining NC divorce law than I can (since I know nothing of NC divorce law).  So, what follows is only a guess and not legal advice (unlicensed practice of law is frowned upon): If I met the residency requirements for NC (in Fla. its 6 mos.), I would file in NC.  I would want to be in a Court that has jurisdiction over the property.  I would file in the County in which she lives (if its NC) or where the property is located, but venue (the county) can be changed by agreement of the parties.  Its possible that she could counter-file in Georgia (if she’s lives there and if that is where you both last cohabitated as husband and wife).  If you and she can agree on a division of assets and liabilites, check with the Clerk for "simplified" or uncontested divorce forms.  In Florida, both parties have to show up for a "simplified" divorce. Otherwise, you should get an attorney. Good Luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No kids.  We lived in Georgia last.  We married in Florida but did not live in Florida when we were married.  Only property is our home in Charlotte which we recently purchased.  Assets would be retirement plans, stocks (under $2500) and our personal possessions.

Response:

Anyone know where I can find divorce information in the state of NC?  I was married in Florida and live in NC.  If that matters.

Response:

If there is no property and no children, you may qualify for a Court-assisted uncontrested divorce.  Check with the Clerk of Court. Otherwise, look in the Yellow Pages under Attorneys.  You may find a number for the local bar association or state bar association for an information hotline or referral to an attorney. You may need to provide more information.  How long have you lived in NC? Do you have kids?  Where are they now and how long have they been there?  In which state was the last marital residence?  Do you own any property in Florida? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know where I can find divorce information in the state of NC?  I was married in Florida and live in NC.  If that matters.

Response:

No kids.  We lived in Georgia last.  We married in Florida but did not live in Florida when we were married.  Only property is our home in Charlotte which we recently purchased.  Assets would be retirement plans, stocks (under $2500) and our personal possessions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If there is no property and no children, you may qualify for a Court-assisted uncontrested divorce.  Check with the Clerk of Court. Otherwise, look in the Yellow Pages under Attorneys.  You may find a number for the local bar association or state bar association for an information hotline or referral to an attorney. You may need to provide more information.  How long have you lived in NC? Do you have kids?  Where are they now and how long have they been there?  In which state was the last marital residence?  Do you own any property in Florida? Anyone know where I can find divorce information in the state of NC?  I was married in Florida and live in NC.  If that matters.

Response:

please help

Question:

Hey Sam, we 40 somethings are IN OUR PRIME! All that’s needed is a big can of WD-40 to get rid of some of the rusty areas. Wynn

So… Wynn, are you saying that we 40 somethings need Rustoleum?????  LOL!….. Pat no rust here!

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please…just give me instructions on what i should say or do…don’t worry about trying to cheer me up…that will come once my problem is solved…i feel lonelier when i’m surrounded by people than i do when i’m at home by myself…i’m ready for that to stop, i just need a little help…

Find a intrest shaired amoung many people, biking, running, bowling, whatever… and join a team. It’s easier to to talk when you start with a common intrest. Goodluck. Philosophers and plowmen,each must know his part To sow a new mentality, closer to the Heart. To Reply by e-mail remove the number 1 from

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That’s why it’s called WD-40 and not WD-GenX. – M Hey Sam, we 40 somethings are IN OUR PRIME! All that’s needed is a big can of WD-40 to get rid of some of the rusty areas. Wynn Hey watch that 40’s stuff Wynn it hurts. Sam

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Relax. Don’t force it. Keep going out and socializing. Practice is the only way. Be thankful you are only 25, the last time you did this was not that long ago. Imaging trying in your 40’s. Don’t let fear hold you back from saying hello to those people in the grocery store line or at work or in a club.  Bring up the weather or some other safe subject. Each little encounter gives you more practice at interacting. It’s kind of like riding a bicycle, the ease of interacting will come back to you. Wynn really…i’ve posted this sort of thing before, but i mean it…i really need some help…i’m not looking for reassurance or people telling me that everything will be fine when i’m ready…i just saw year #25 of my life go by and it was really lonely…my wife has been gone for well over a year…i’m not getting any younger…i’m ready to …. to…. to talk to somebody that i find attractive…goddammit… i see people that i want to talk to…at work…in stores…tonight i had one of the two nights each month that my son stays with his mother and i went out with a neighbor.  There were people everywhere in the bar we went to….some of them even seemed like they wanted me to talk to them….i just dont know how…i’m not a loser…i’d even say i’m pretty confident…i’m better than average looking, i make better than average money, i’m pretty in touch with style…i just dont know how to meet people…talk to people…the last time i did this i was in high school…it was so different then…i’ve also spent the last 6 years rejecting advances…i got pretty good at it…now when people talk to me i end up sending them away without meaning to… please…just give me instructions on what i should say or do…don’t worry about trying to cheer me up…that will come once my problem is solved…i feel lonelier when i’m surrounded by people than i do when i’m at home by myself…i’m ready for that to stop, i just need a little help…

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amen to that Go girl. I feel about25 Hey Sam, we 40 somethings are IN OUR PRIME! All that’s needed is a big can of WD-40 to get rid of some of the rusty areas. Wynn Hey watch that 40’s stuff Wynn it hurts. Sam

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Relax. Don’t force it. Keep going out and socializing. Practice is the only way. Be thankful you are only 25, the last time you did this was not that long ago. Imaging trying in your 40’s. Don’t let fear hold you back from saying hello to those people in the grocery store line or at work or in a club.  Bring up the weather or some other safe subject. Each little encounter gives you more practice at interacting. It’s kind of like riding a bicycle, the ease of interacting will come back to you. Wynn really…i’ve posted this sort of thing before, but i mean it…i really need some help…i’m not looking for reassurance or people telling me that everything will be fine when i’m ready…i just saw year #25 of my life go by and it was really lonely…my wife has been gone for well over a year…i’m not getting any younger…i’m ready to …. to…. to talk to somebody that i find attractive…goddammit… i see people that i want to talk to…at work…in stores…tonight i had one of the two nights each month that my son stays with his mother and i went out with a neighbor.  There were people everywhere in the bar we went to….some of them even seemed like they wanted me to talk to them….i just dont know how…i’m not a loser…i’d even say i’m pretty confident…i’m better than average looking, i make better than average money, i’m pretty in touch with style…i just dont know how to meet people…talk to people…the last time i did this i was in high school…it was so different then…i’ve also spent the last 6 years rejecting advances…i got pretty good at it…now when people talk to me i end up sending them away without meaning to… please…just give me instructions on what i should say or do…don’t worry about trying to cheer me up…that will come once my problem is solved…i feel lonelier when i’m surrounded by people than i do when i’m at home by myself…i’m ready for that to stop, i just need a little help…

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Relax. Don’t force it. Keep going out and socializing. Practice is the only way. Be thankful you are only 25, the last time you did this was not that long ago. Imaging trying in your 40’s. Don’t let fear hold you back from saying hello to those people in the grocery store line or at work or in a club.  Bring up the weather or some other safe subject. Each little encounter gives you more practice at interacting. It’s kind of like riding a bicycle, the ease of interacting will come back to you. Wynn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – really…i’ve posted this sort of thing before, but i mean it…i really need some help…i’m not looking for reassurance or people telling me that everything will be fine when i’m ready…i just saw year #25 of my life go by and it was really lonely…my wife has been gone for well over a year…i’m not getting any younger…i’m ready to …. to…. to talk to somebody that i find attractive…goddammit… i see people that i want to talk to…at work…in stores…tonight i had one of the two nights each month that my son stays with his mother and i went out with a neighbor.  There were people everywhere in the bar we went to….some of them even seemed like they wanted me to talk to them….i just dont know how…i’m not a loser…i’d even say i’m pretty confident…i’m better than average looking, i make better than average money, i’m pretty in touch with style…i just dont know how to meet people…talk to people…the last time i did this i was in high school…it was so different then…i’ve also spent the last 6 years rejecting advances…i got pretty good at it…now when people talk to me i end up sending them away without meaning to… please…just give me instructions on what i should say or do…don’t worry about trying to cheer me up…that will come once my problem is solved…i feel lonelier when i’m surrounded by people than i do when i’m at home by myself…i’m ready for that to stop, i just need a little help…

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Hey watch that 40’s stuff Wynn it hurts. Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Relax. Don’t force it. Keep going out and socializing. Practice is the only way. Be thankful you are only 25, the last time you did this was not that long ago. Imaging trying in your 40’s. Don’t let fear hold you back from saying hello to those people in the grocery store line or at work or in a club.  Bring up the weather or some other safe subject. Each little encounter gives you more practice at interacting. It’s kind of like riding a bicycle, the ease of interacting will come back to you. Wynn really…i’ve posted this sort of thing before, but i mean it…i really need some help…i’m not looking for reassurance or people telling me that everything will be fine when i’m ready…i just saw year #25 of my life go by and it was really lonely…my wife has been gone for well over a year…i’m not getting any younger…i’m ready to …. to…. to talk to somebody that i find attractive…goddammit… i see people that i want to talk to…at work…in stores…tonight i had one of the two nights each month that my son stays with his mother and i went out with a neighbor.  There were people everywhere in the bar we went to….some of them even seemed like they wanted me to talk to them….i just dont know how…i’m not a loser…i’d even say i’m pretty confident…i’m better than average looking, i make better than average money, i’m pretty in touch with style…i just dont know how to meet people…talk to people…the last time i did this i was in high school…it was so different then…i’ve also spent the last 6 years rejecting advances…i got pretty good at it…now when people talk to me i end up sending them away without meaning to… please…just give me instructions on what i should say or do…don’t worry about trying to cheer me up…that will come once my problem is solved…i feel lonelier when i’m surrounded by people than i do when i’m at home by myself…i’m ready for that to stop, i just need a little help…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – really…i’ve posted this sort of thing before, but i mean it…i really need some help…i’m not looking for reassurance or people telling me that everything will be fine when i’m ready…i just saw year #25 of my life go by and it was really lonely…my wife has been gone for well over a year…i’m not getting any younger…i’m ready to …. to…. to talk to somebody that i find attractive…goddammit… i see people that i want to talk to…at work…in stores…tonight i had one of the two nights each month that my son stays with his mother and i went out with a neighbor.  There were people everywhere in the bar we went to….some of them even seemed like they wanted me to talk to them….i just dont know how…i’m not a loser…i’d even say i’m pretty confident…i’m better than average looking, i make better than average money, i’m pretty in touch with style…i just dont know how to meet people…talk to people…the last time i did this i was in high school…it was so different then…i’ve also spent the last 6 years rejecting advances…i got pretty good at it…now when people talk to me i end up sending them away without meaning to… please…just give me instructions on what i should say or do…don’t worry about trying to cheer me up…that will come once my problem is solved…i feel lonelier when i’m surrounded by people than i do when i’m at home by myself…i’m ready for that to stop, i just need a little help…

Well I didn’t see your other post so I’ll respond to this one. Quit trying so hard. You’re probably coming off as desparate. If approaching one woman and striking up a conversation is so agonizing then you aren’t ready for that yet. Join a group where you’ll be discussing and talking with a whole group of people. Join any group or class that *really* interests you. Once you’re comfortable talking in a group situation where people are actually listening to what you say, individual conversations will come about naturally. The up side is that you’ll start out knowing you have at least one thing in common. Good luck. — Jeri "Set your course by the stars, and not by the lights of every passing ship." -Omar Bradley

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Hey Sam, we 40 somethings are IN OUR PRIME! All that’s needed is a big can of WD-40 to get rid of some of the rusty areas. Wynn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey watch that 40’s stuff Wynn it hurts. Sam Relax. Don’t force it. Keep going out and socializing. Practice is the only way. Be thankful you are only 25, the last time you did this was not that long ago. Imaging trying in your 40’s. Don’t let fear hold you back from saying hello to those people in the grocery store line or at work or in a club.  Bring up the weather or some other safe subject. Each little encounter gives you more practice at interacting. It’s kind of like riding a bicycle, the ease of interacting will come back to you. Wynn really…i’ve posted this sort of thing before, but i mean it…i really need some help…i’m not looking for reassurance or people telling me that everything will be fine when i’m ready…i just saw year #25 of my life go by and it was really lonely…my wife has been gone for well over a year…i’m not getting any younger…i’m ready to …. to…. to talk to somebody that i find attractive…goddammit… i see people that i want to talk to…at work…in stores…tonight i had one of the two nights each month that my son stays with his mother and i went out with a neighbor.  There were people everywhere in the bar we went to….some of them even seemed like they wanted me to talk to them….i just dont know how…i’m not a loser…i’d even say i’m pretty confident…i’m better than average looking, i make better than average money, i’m pretty in touch with style…i just dont know how to meet people…talk to people…the last time i did this i was in high school…it was so different then…i’ve also spent the last 6 years rejecting advances…i got pretty good at it…now when people talk to me i end up sending them away without meaning to… please…just give me instructions on what i should say or do…don’t worry about trying to cheer me up…that will come once my problem is solved…i feel lonelier when i’m surrounded by people than i do when i’m at home by myself…i’m ready for that to stop, i just need a little help…

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Sorry to be so flippant, but at this time of day (2:40AM), all I can say is that what you need is antidepressant medication and a decent therapist. Don’t worry.  Be Happy. Be Happy Now… Take Drugs. ===Rog’=== Of all the gin joints in all the towns, in all the world, she walks into mine. — Casablanca (1942)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – really…i’ve posted this sort of thing before, but i mean it…i really need some help…i’m not looking for reassurance or people telling me that everything will be fine when i’m ready…i just saw year #25 of my life go by and it was really lonely…my wife has been gone for well over a year…i’m not getting any younger…i’m ready to …. to…. to talk to somebody that i find attractive…goddammit… i see people that i want to talk to…at work…in stores…tonight i had one of the two nights each month that my son stays with his mother and i went out with a neighbor.  There were people everywhere in the bar we went to….some of them even seemed like they wanted me to talk to them….i just dont know how…i’m not a loser…i’d even say i’m pretty confident…i’m better than average looking, i make better than average money, i’m pretty in touch with style…i just dont know how to meet people…talk to people…the last time i did this i was in high school…it was so different then…i’ve also spent the last 6 years rejecting advances…i got pretty good at it…now when people talk to me i end up sending them away without meaning to… please…just give me instructions on what i should say or do…don’t worry about trying to cheer me up…that will come once my problem is solved…i feel lonelier when i’m surrounded by people than i do when i’m at home by myself…i’m ready for that to stop, i just need a little help…

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I read your message twice, and it seems to mostly talk about what kinds of support you *don’t* want.  And what you ask for — instructions on what to say or do, I think with regards to attracting someone into your life who will care for you again — seems like getting the cart in front of the horse. The best advice I can give you is to learn to care for yourself.  When you’ve got that down good and proper, you’ll be more ready to find a companion.  And you won’t need any advice from us on how to make that happen. Barb

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – really…i’ve posted this sort of thing before, but i mean it…i really need some help…i’m not looking for reassurance or people telling me that everything will be fine when i’m ready…i just saw year #25 of my life go by and it was really lonely…my wife has been gone for well over a year…i’m not getting any younger…i’m ready to …. to…. to talk to somebody that i find attractive…goddammit… i see people that i want to talk to…at work…in stores…tonight i had one of the two nights each month that my son stays with his mother and i went out with a neighbor.  There were people everywhere in the bar we went to….some of them even seemed like they wanted me to talk to them….i just dont know how…i’m not a loser…i’d even say i’m pretty confident…i’m better than average looking, i make better than average money, i’m pretty in touch with style…i just dont know how to meet people…talk to people…the last time i did this i was in high school…it was so different then…i’ve also spent the last 6 years rejecting advances…i got pretty good at it…now when people talk to me i end up sending them away without meaning to… please…just give me instructions on what i should say or do…don’t worry about trying to cheer me up…that will come once my problem is solved…i feel lonelier when i’m surrounded by people than i do when i’m at home by myself…i’m ready for that to stop, i just need a little help…

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really…i’ve posted this sort of thing before, but i mean it…i really need some help…i’m not looking for reassurance or people telling me that everything will be fine when i’m ready…i just saw year #25 of my life go by and it was really lonely…my wife has been gone for well over a year…i’m not getting any younger…i’m ready to …. to…. to talk to somebody that i find attractive…goddammit… i see people that i want to talk to…at work…in stores…tonight i had one of the two nights each month that my son stays with his mother and i went out with a neighbor.  There were people everywhere in the bar we went to….some of them even seemed like they wanted me to talk to them….i just dont know how…i’m not a loser…i’d even say i’m pretty confident…i’m better than average looking, i make better than average money, i’m pretty in touch with style…i just dont know how to meet people…talk to people…the last time i did this i was in high school…it was so different then…i’ve also spent the last 6 years rejecting advances…i got pretty good at it…now when people talk to me i end up sending them away without meaning to… please…just give me instructions on what i should say or do…don’t worry about trying to cheer me up…that will come once my problem is solved…i feel lonelier when i’m surrounded by people than i do when i’m at home by myself…i’m ready for that to stop, i just need a little help…

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I have a friend that got married in Texas. Then she told me they got divorced.  She just got married  to some one else in Las Vegas, and I found out she didn’t get divorced from her first husband. I’m sure this against the law.  What would happen if she got caught. Thanks for any help you can give me. I am very concerned — Aloha! Jenna *****Jenna’s Hawaii Links***** http://www.321website.com/members/home/data/jenna22 http://jetsons.acmecity.com/crazything/87

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yes I know it is a crime but what kind of crime? I mean is it a felony or misdemeanor? Would she go to jail if caught? etc. — Aloha! Jenna *****Jenna’s Hawaii Links***** http://www.321website.com/members/home/data/jenna22 http://jetsons.acmecity.com/crazything/87

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a friend that got married in Texas. Then she told me they got divorced.  She just got married  to some one else in Las Vegas, and I found out she didn’t get divorced from her first husband. I’m sure this against the law.  What would happen if she got caught. Thanks for any help you can give me. I am very concerned If she isn’t divorced she has committed bigamy and that’s a crime. Victoria Lee

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Thanks for your help — Aloha! Jenna *****Jenna’s Hawaii Links***** http://www.321website.com/members/home/data/jenna22 http://jetsons.acmecity.com/crazything/87

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a friend that got married in Texas. Then she told me they got divorced.  She just got married  to some one else in Las Vegas, and I found out she didn’t get divorced from her first husband. I’m sure this against the law.  What would happen if she got caught. Thanks for any help you can give me. I am very concerned If she isn’t divorced she has committed bigamy and that’s a crime. Victoria Lee

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I have a friend that got married in Texas. Then she told me they got divorced.  She just got married  to some one else in Las Vegas, and I found out she didn’t get divorced from her first husband. I’m sure this against the law.  What would happen if she got caught. Thanks for any help you can give me. I am very concerned

If she isn’t divorced she has committed bigamy and that’s a crime. Victoria Lee

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I have a friend that got married in Texas. Then she told me they got divorced.  

if she is your friend why would she lie to you. She just got married  to some one else in Las Vegas, and I found out she didn’t get divorced from her first husband. I’m sure this against the law.

and what if it is she made her bed let her sleep in it she is an adult right I am very concerned

sounds to me like your the only one worried about it. I think its goodd to have friends like you but your not her mom, hubby,new hubby. go get some rest and let your friend ruin her life if she wants to, rember she LIED to you. TK

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yes I know it is a crime but what kind of crime? I mean is it a felony or misdemeanor? Would she go to jail if caught? etc.

I suspect she might if she has married someone knowing full well she never divorced her husband [versus thinking husband had died and he hadn't as in a war].  Also, depending on the circumstances she could be charged with fraud.  She filled out the legal papers for a marriage license (official government document) and lied on them and if her current "husband" doesn’t know then she’s lied to him.   Victoria Lee

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hiya, VL, Hope all is well with you, and if I may most gently interject here <g…. yes I know it is a crime but what kind of crime? I mean is it a felony or misdemeanor? Would she go to jail if caught? etc. I suspect she might if she has married someone knowing full well she never divorced her husband [versus thinking husband had died and he hadn't as in a war].  Also, depending on the circumstances she could be charged with fraud.  She filled out the legal papers for a marriage license (official government document) and lied on them and if her current "husband" doesn’t know then she’s lied to him.

I think that you may be going out on a limb, here, bigamy laws, depending on the state, can be fairly narrow …. Issues involved in having more then one spouse (Hmmm, what would the plural of spouse be?  "Spice", maybe?) are probably more complex, and any attempts to untangle those might best be undertaken by a *competent* attorney. I certainly wouldn’t, at this point, bring it to the attention of the authorities (DA, etc.), even though, I’m just guessing here, I’d be surprised if they would show much interest or concern … but why take the chance. Private legal action might be the best bet. Certainly consultaion before any action. I understand the trust issue involved that you raise, but, gosh, consider who you are addressing here. Anyway, just my thoughts, and In My Humble Opinion. Thanks for Being You, (and I’m Glad You Are!) Best –  BD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Victoria Lee

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hiya, VL, Hope all is well with you, and if I may most gently interject here <g….

Actually a wonderful day.  The wind has finally settled into a low howl and it’s a nice fall day out.   Thank you for asking.  And how are you? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yes I know it is a crime but what kind of crime? I mean is it a felony or misdemeanor? Would she go to jail if caught? etc. I suspect she might if she has married someone knowing full well she never divorced her husband [versus thinking husband had died and he hadn't as in a war].  Also, depending on the circumstances she could be charged with fraud.  She filled out the legal papers for a marriage license (official government document) and lied on them and if her current "husband" doesn’t know then she’s lied to him. I think that you may be going out on a limb, here, bigamy laws, depending on the state, can be fairly narrow ….

True, but if the woman’s intent was to obtain money or some other kind of gain it would seem that fraud charges would be in order.   Issues involved in having more then one spouse (Hmmm, what would the plural of spouse be?  "Spice", maybe?) are probably more complex, and any attempts to untangle those might best be undertaken by a *competent* attorney. I certainly wouldn’t, at this point, bring it to the attention of the authorities (DA, etc.), even though, I’m just guessing here, I’d be surprised if they would show much interest or concern …

And I would be extremely surprised if they wouldn’t.  But that’s just MHO.  Next time I run into the sheriff or chief of police I’ll ask them.  I’m sure they think I’m nuts always asking the strangest questions – of course from discussions here. but why take the chance. Private legal action might be the best bet. Certainly consultaion before any action. I understand the trust issue involved that you raise, but, gosh, consider who you are addressing here.

I actually wasn’t raising the issue of trust.  Lousy wording, I guess   I was raising the issue that she married this man and if he did not know she was already married he was not a party to her crime, but may be a victim of it – insurance, home, bank accounts.  My answers may come from working on one too many depositions.  What she is doing sure looks like fraud to me. Did you know that some companies will fire you if you claim someone who is not entitled to insurance?  If this woman gets sick and runs up a huge bill guess who will be left holding the bag.  I know a case where this happened.  The ramifications from this situations could be devastating. Anyway, just my thoughts, and In My Humble Opinion. Thanks for Being You, (and I’m Glad You Are!)

At one time I tried very hard to post the way some posters say they want me to.  I felt like I was lying every time I posted.  So I went back to being me.  It’s the thing I do the best [being me] – for better or worse Victoria Lee

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hiya, VL, Hope all is well with you, and if I may most gently interject here <g…. Actually a wonderful day.  The wind has finally settled into a low howl and it’s a nice fall day out. Thank you for asking.  And how are you?

Thanks, VL – I’m fine. Beautiful day. I took a drive down the little back roads south of here, goodness, absolutely beautiful. Second weekend in a row without the kids, but there’s always work. At one time I tried very hard to post the way some posters say they want me to.  I felt like I was lying every time I posted.  So I went back to being me.  It’s the thing I do the best [being me] – for better or worse

Well, "I do" agree , always best to do what you are good at! Good points incidently. Thanks,   – BD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Victoria Lee

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Hmmm… what does this stink of? Robert M.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear group, I have two children aged 7 and 9,  that are not my husbands children. I wonder what will happen to us financially after we move apart and finally get divorced with my current husband.  I have moved to the US from europe but I have an unconditional status and a permanent green card. We dont get any alimony from the childrens real father. My husband has a company and is doing very well financially. I have no intention to rip him off, I just want to manage even after we arent together anymore.. Can someone please give me some advice? Thanks Anna

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alt.support.divorce: Well, Andrew, that was certainly helpful… Casey (Who has now gone exactly 2 months and 20 days without being married)

but probably exactly what was needed, since the poster stinks of a troll. Anyone who comes in here asking for advice on what to get ($$) prior to a divorce is a troll or a complete idiot. First stop: lawyer. Next stop: family. Waaay down the list AFTER the divorce and shit, here.

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What I would like to know. Did you help him in his company. Did you go to help do the books, answer the phone. Did you do anything to help. My friend that I helped set up a tool and die shop with, his wife never helped ever. Then she bitched he spent to much time at work. He and I did the books, ran the machines, took the orders, quoted new jobs, swept the floor, trained new people. What did she do. OH yes we loved working like dogs.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear group My husband has a company and is doing very well financially. Why even mention this fact?    I suspect you mention it only because it’s a source to tap into to provide you money….let’s just be honest and frank about this….. I have no intention to rip him off, I just want to manage even after we arent together anymore What exactly do you mean when you say "manage"?   You’re standards of "managing" might = $2K month or $5K month or more.   Do you want to "manage" in an expensive city like New York or San Francisco?     Again, let’s be honest…..what’s the number you want to see? Can we just cut to the chase here?    Get an attorney to focus on the assets of your husbands company and  fuck him over.  Seems like that’s your only option.   No it won’t be ethical or fair….but this is not about being ethical or fair….it’s about getting what you can….right?  Seems to me like you’re leaning this way anyway….you’re already eyeing his company…..and saying he’s doing well….. I have no doubt after all the advice you receive….in the end…it will boil down to fucking over your husband and his company so you can "manage" in this world. Good Luck Andrew

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If the children are not his biological children then he has no obligation to support them. Denise — Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once. -Shakespeare-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear group, I have two children aged 7 and 9,  that are not my husbands children. I wonder what will happen to us financially after we move apart and finally get divorced with my current husband.  I have moved to the US from europe but I have an unconditional status and a permanent green card. We dont get any alimony from the childrens real father. My husband has a company and is doing very well financially. I have no intention to rip him off, I just want to manage even after we arent together anymore.. Can someone please give me some advice? Thanks Anna

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Denise — Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once. -Shakespeare-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear group My husband has a company and is doing very well financially. Why even mention this fact?    I suspect you mention it only because it’s a source to tap into to provide you money….let’s just be honest and frank about this….. I have no intention to rip him off, I just want to manage even after we arent together anymore What exactly do you mean when you say "manage"?   You’re standards of "managing" might = $2K month or $5K month or more.   Do you want to "manage" in an expensive city like New York or San Francisco?     Again, let’s be honest…..what’s the number you want to see? Can we just cut to the chase here?    Get an attorney to focus on the assets of your husbands company and  fuck him over.  Seems like that’s your only option.   No it won’t be ethical or fair….but this is not about being ethical or fair….it’s about getting what you can….right?  Seems to me like you’re leaning this way anyway….you’re already eyeing his company…..and saying he’s doing well….. I have no doubt after all the advice you receive….in the end…it will boil down to fucking over your husband and his company so you can "manage" in this world. Good Luck Andrew

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Dear group, I have two children aged 7 and 9,  that are not my husbands children. I wonder what will happen to us financially after we move apart and finally get divorced with my current husband.  I have moved to the US from europe but I have an unconditional status and a permanent green card. We dont get any alimony from the childrens real father. My husband has a company and is doing very well financially. I have no intention to rip him off, I just want to manage even after we arent together anymore.. Can someone please give me some advice? Thanks Anna

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Dear group My husband has a company and is doing very well financially.

Why even mention this fact?    I suspect you mention it only because it’s a source to tap into to provide you money….let’s just be honest and frank about this….. I have no intention to rip him off, I just want to manage even after we arent together anymore

What exactly do you mean when you say "manage"?   You’re standards of "managing" might = $2K month or $5K month or more.   Do you want to "manage" in an expensive city like New York or San Francisco?     Again, let’s be honest…..what’s the number you want to see? Can we just cut to the chase here?    Get an attorney to focus on the assets of your husbands company and  fuck him over.  Seems like that’s your only option.   No it won’t be ethical or fair….but this is not about being ethical or fair….it’s about getting what you can….right?  Seems to me like you’re leaning this way anyway….you’re already eyeing his company…..and saying he’s doing well….. I have no doubt after all the advice you receive….in the end…it will boil down to fucking over your husband and his company so you can "manage" in this world. Good Luck Andrew

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Well, Andrew, that was certainly helpful… Casey (Who has now gone exactly 2 months and 20 days without being married)

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ditto

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, Andrew, that was certainly helpful… Casey (Who has now gone exactly 2 months and 20 days without being married)

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i have been told long ago by himi should leave, wew were never married,

 Damn woman! You got your dues now move on.. If I was him I’d give you nothing.

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Aw….got tired of trolling the childcare newsgroup did ya?  No kids huh? You change your story too often, it’s not believable.  By the way, did you ever get other daycare for your daughter or are you still complaining about it??

She/he hit alt.support.parents.with-custody a few months ago.  Story there was her kids had been taken away from her.  Who knows…. Sally – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Daisy i have been told long ago by himi should leave, wew were never married, just living together for 6 yrs!!!!!! He owns property, and i feel i am entitled to have some support! Esp. since i just started working. Iknow i am responsible and have no kids  by him. Befor we got together his wife was only living in the home 1 yr-married he had to pay her 1,300 a mo in allmony! I’ll be damned because i have been here way longer, doing everything! I live in Ca. anyone who may know please help. This is soooo depressing, ih ave no family, but i will work hard but shouldn’t he be tried and help?

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here’s my story.  my wife and i have been married for 7 years (2.5 of them were separated) and it seems it’s coming to an end.   why? my wife and i are best friends….that’s it.  even before we were married (in the wonderful, magical time of dating) we had very little physical intimate contact….and it never changed.  the problem lies within me.  i don’t know why but i’m uncomfortable being physical with her.   well…that being said…i’ve found myself in too many situations that could have led to affairs and now i’m realizing just how incomplete our marriage is.   i love my wife…but i can’t keep putting her through this torture! it’s hurts me to know that she has never really known a solid physical relationship and that i can not give that to her. i also love myself…and know that i am missing somethin core to the human experience. now…to the meat of this story.  it seems i’ve become very close with someone else.  she is a co-worker and i just adore her.   she and i are physically/emotional/spiritually attracted to one another and i feel like a giddy school boy when i’m with her =) now…is this escapism?  i am positive these are genuine emotions.  but is this indicative of my behavior?  am i wrong in thinking that i’m just incapable of being married right now?  i know what i’m doing is wrong….though it doesn’t feel wrong… am i wrong in thinking that my marriage should end?  not just because of this other person.  i swore to myself that i wouldn’t end my marriage because of someone else and i hope that is not what’s happening…that would not be fair.  but this has gone on for so long! it just seems to me that my subconscious mind is trying to tell me something. i’m sorry…i’m rambling.  if anyone would like to share stories, or advise….please respond.  i do need truth.  i need clarity. respond to me directly. jack wallen

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Jack, If you’re looking for the blessings of this NG to go ahead and leave your wife for another person, then I don’t think you’ll get it here.  At least I hope you don’t. Marriage IS about friendship.  Consider yourself lucky that you and your wife are/were best friends. Aside from the lack of physical (sexual?) intimacy, do the two of you share non-sexual intimacy? (ie. sitting/lying on the couch and quiet talks, hugs, hand-holding, pecks on the cheek…etc) Have you ever talked to your wife about any of the stuff you posted into this NG?  I hope you did. Keep in mind…there’s a big difference between infatuation and the real thing.  Once you decide to go forward with a divorce, it’s pretty damn hard to go back.  Are children involved?  How does your wife feel about you? Good Luck, RLW

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I think you should do your wife a favor and let her go.  She deserves to explore a relationship with someone who could really love her.

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my wife and i are best friends….that’s it.  even before we were married (in the wonderful, magical time of dating) we had very little physical intimate contact….and it never changed.  the problem lies within me.  i don’t know why but i’m uncomfortable being physical with her.

Sounds like you may have problems being *emotionally* close (i.e. vulnerable) so you keep your distance by being "uncomfortable" and attracted to other women. You don’t need an affair.  You need to be honest with yourself and your wife.  I think therapy would be helpful due to all the confusion and ambivalence. good luck. Karen Karen Ronan

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my wife and i are best friends….that’s it.  even before we were married (in the wonderful, magical time of dating) we had very little physical intimate contact….and it never changed.  the problem lies within me.  i don’t know why but i’m uncomfortable being physical with her.   i love my wife…but i can’t keep putting her through this torture! it’s hurts me to know that she has never really known a solid physical relationship and that i can not give that to her.

How do you know it is torture?  Have you asked her? am i wrong in thinking that my marriage should end?

Ask your wife. Sally

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Aside from the lack of physical (sexual?) intimacy, do the two of you share non-sexual intimacy? (ie. sitting/lying on the couch and quiet talks, hugs, hand-holding, pecks on the cheek…etc) Have you ever talked to your wife about any of the stuff you posted into this NG?  I hope you did.

From a woman’s point of view, if the non-sexual intimacy is not there, it is sometimes difficult to get ‘worked up’ for the sexual intimacy. In my case, at least, if the hugs, hand-holding, etc., are not there, when it comes time for the ‘big show’, I feel used and only wanted for ‘one thing.’ I am now reading ‘Divorce Busting’ (yes, you people finally got to me and I bought it ~) and have just read a chapter dealing with the Butterfly Effect. In it, the author talks about a ‘trickle- down’ effect. How a small thing (i.e., a kiss out of the blue) will have a cascading effect. The person kissed feels loved, good and so will do a nice thing for the kisser, which makes them feel good and they’ll do another, etc. Yes, it does work. Tracey

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here’s my story.  my wife and i have been married for 7 years (2.5 of them were separated) and it seems it’s coming to an end. why?

       You ask "why" but further down you tell us that you are        involved with another.   Can’t you figure it out?????? well…that being said…i’ve found myself in too many situations that could have led to affairs and now i’m realizing just how incomplete our marriage is.

        Sounds like you are having trouble resisting temptation i love my wife…but i can’t keep putting her through this torture! it’s hurts me to know that she has never really known a solid physical relationship and that i can not give that to her.

        Poor fella, my heart really bleeds for you … but I feel worse           your wife. i also love myself…

         CAUTION!!!  Ego at large!!!!   now…to the meat of this story.  it seems i’ve become very close with someone else.  she is a co-worker and i just adore her.   she and i are physically/emotional/spiritually attracted to one another and i feel like a giddy school boy when i’m with her =)

     Sorry Jack but I can’t comment on any more of this crap! You want an opinion, here it is:       1)  You made a commitment to your wife on the day that you married             her … for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health,             till DEATH us do part!!!  remember????     2)  You have a responsibility now to your wife, not this co-worker             that you are having this fling with.  This could be the             reason you don’t have feelings for your wife.  You have             complicated the issue with this other relationship.   Now for some advice if its not already too late:     1) Terminate your extra marital activities and focus your             attention on loving your wife preserving your marriage.       2) Get some counseling for yourself and your wife.     3) Begin going to church and pray to God for forgiveness. Sorry if I sound so harsh but it hit on a nerve of mine.  I have no time for infidelity in a marriage.  My first wife decided that she wanted to run around a little.  She found herself a boyfriend and when I found out, I left her (married for 13 years).  I divorced her 2 years ago.  I am now remarried and doing fine.  I love my new wife very much.   Divorce destroys lives.  Rebuilding takes a long time and is more often than not, a painful process.  Sometimes I still hurt. I will pray for you. Take care

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says… From a woman’s point of view, if the non-sexual intimacy is not there, it is sometimes difficult to get ‘worked up’ for the sexual intimacy. In my case, at least, if the hugs, hand-holding, etc., are not there, when it comes time for the ‘big show’, I feel used and only wanted for ‘one thing.’

I know exactly what you mean.  My husband never really did any of the little things that made me feel loved and wanted.  So when he wanted "the big show" as you put it, I just couldn’t do it.  Or, if I did do it (out of "duty"), I would be angry — with myself and him.  I have friends who very rarely are "sexually intimate", but who have a solid relationship built on the "little intimacies" that a couple can share.  I only feel loved when these are present. Catherine.

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Will this help? http://www.pro-se-kiosk.com/divorce/ca.html

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divorceinfo.com might be helpful

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International parental abduction. Get an attorney – now – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently came home from work to find that my wife had run away. its been two weeks now and i still do not know where they are. my son is 19 months and i miss him so much. my wife is having an affair and she wants to end our marriage. this is totally out of the blue, we never had any marriage problems. i love my family so much and i dont want to lose my son. can someone please advise me on what i need to do and say to the judge in order to keep my son with me. i dont want to hurt my wife but for some reason she does not seem to care about me.i am very hurt.,I want to be prepared in front of the judge. at present i am being helped to get my son back to me under the hague convention and if iam lucky i want to keep my son. i live in spain and my wife has run of the england. please i need all the advice i can get Thanks in advance

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Simon, Talk to your lawyer, he/she can tell you what it is you need to get done. Don’t worry about hurting your wife, look what she has done to you!  She not only left a marriage but took off with your son as well.  I hope you find them.  Good Luck! Daisy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently came home from work to find that my wife had run away. its been two weeks now and i still do not know where they are. my son is 19 months and i miss him so much. my wife is having an affair and she wants to end our marriage. this is totally out of the blue, we never had any marriage problems. i love my family so much and i dont want to lose my son. can someone please advise me on what i need to do and say to the judge in order to keep my son with me. i dont want to hurt my wife but for some reason she does not seem to care about me.i am very hurt.,I want to be prepared in front of the judge. at present i am being helped to get my son back to me under the hague convention and if iam lucky i want to keep my son. i live in spain and my wife has run of the england. please i need all the advice i can get Thanks in advance

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I recently came home from work to find that my wife had run away. its been two weeks now and i still do not know where they are. my son is 19 months and i miss him so much. my wife is having an affair and she wants to end our marriage. this is totally out of the blue, we never had any marriage problems. i love my family so much and i dont want to lose my son. can someone please advise me on what i need to do and say to the judge in order to keep my son with me. i dont want to hurt my wife but for some reason she does not seem to care about me.i am very hurt.,I want to be prepared in front of the judge. at present i am being helped to get my son back to me under the hague convention and if iam lucky i want to keep my son. i live in spain and my wife has run of the england. please i need all the advice i can get

Laws vary plenty, so the best advice that I can offer, is get a lawyer. Now ! Yesterday ! Thanks in advance

Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "                                          David Gelernter, " 1939 "

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try http://www.lexstrat.com/nolawyer/myquestion.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently came home from work to find that my wife had run away. its been two weeks now and i still do not know where they are. my son is 19 months and i miss him so much. my wife is having an affair and she wants to end our marriage. this is totally out of the blue, we never had any marriage problems. i love my family so much and i dont want to lose my son. can someone please advise me on what i need to do and say to the judge in order to keep my son with me. i dont want to hurt my wife but for some reason she does not seem to care about me.i am very hurt.,I want to be prepared in front of the judge. at present i am being helped to get my son back to me under the hague convention and if iam lucky i want to keep my son. i live in spain and my wife has run of the england. please i need all the advice i can get Thanks in advance

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I recently came home from work to find that my wife had run away. its been two weeks now and i still do not know where they are. my son is 19 months and i miss him so much. my wife is having an affair and she wants to end our marriage. this is totally out of the blue, we never had any marriage problems. i love my family so much and i dont want to lose my son. can someone please advise me on what i need to do and say to the judge in order to keep my son with me. i dont want to hurt my wife but for some reason she does not seem to care about me.i am very hurt.,I want to be prepared in front of the judge. at present i am being helped to get my son back to me under the hague convention and if iam lucky i want to keep my son. i live in spain and my wife has run of the england. please i need all the advice i can get Thanks in advance

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divorce forms

Question:

hay I am looking to do my own divorce since my x has ben goan for more than two years. I can’t seam to find divorce forms for pa on the web, I would think a person could find them for free and then fill them out and pay to file them but that hasn’t happened yet. can any one out there help me in

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hay I am looking to do my own divorce since my x has ben goan for more than two years. I can’t seam to find divorce forms for pa on the web, I would think a person could find them for free and then fill them out and pay to file them but that hasn’t happened yet. can any one out there help me in

For divorce forms, try: http://www.divorcenet.com/forms/divorce.htm

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This site has free helps for fathers   http://www.fathersrights.org

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hay I am looking to do my own divorce since my x has ben goan for more than two years. I can’t seam to find divorce forms for pa on the web, I would think a person could find them for free and then fill them out and pay to file them but that hasn’t happened yet. can any one out there help me in

Check out the Sybex books that are at Borders.  They have all the forms and the book is not very expensive.  Much less than the sites other posters have listed.

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im wanting a divorce in florida and looking for a form to file myself  ? theres no children or property so its simple divorce

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First, be sure you REALLY want a divorce.  Divorce sucks any way you slice it. Having said that, go to your local book store.  I found a book that was specific to my state that had all the forms right in it.  It gave lots of wonderful info on all the how to’s. Zimm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – im wanting a divorce in florida and looking for a form to file myself ? theres no children or property so its simple divorce

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where does one get ahold of the proper forms for a divorce that will be uncontested?  no lawyer will be needed so i’m assuming that all i need to do is fill out the forms and file them.  am i way off base?   any help would be appreciated! jack wallen

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where does one get ahold of the proper forms for a divorce that will be uncontested?  no lawyer will be needed so i’m assuming that all i need to do is fill out the forms and file them.  am i way off base?  

if no kids, u don’t need one, but I wud suggest for ur own protection u do.  Make ur agreement & take to party A’s lawyer to draw up, then let party B take to a different lawyer to sign off on.  This prevents any future recrimination by either A or B. Kids need both parents

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Jack, Check with the clerk of the court that handles divorces in your jurisdiction.  Divorces are generally a matter of public record, so you can generally get a copy of the file for a similar action. In Wyoming the only actual forms needed are a summons, and a form from the vital records division to record the divorce.  Everything else is done from scratch. Don’t go out and purchase a divorce kit from the book or stationary store until after you have checked with the clerk of the court.  Some judges take a _very_ dim view of these kits. Brian

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where does one get ahold of the proper forms for a divorce that will be uncontested?  

Check your local library.  This is where I got my start.  Of course, eventually I contacted a service who walked me through it all for a flat fee of about $200.  Not bad.

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where does one get ahold of the proper forms for a divorce that will be uncontested?   Check your local library.  This is where I got my start.  Of course, eventually I contacted a service who walked me through it all for a flat fee of about $200.  Not bad.

I did my divorce for the $110 filing fee (split between myself & my Ex- $55 each)  She insited on going to her uncle’s lawyer, but I wrote all the paperwork, including Child Support, and custody issues. Check out a book called "the Divorce Handbook"    Should have an Orange-ish cover.  It’s a GREAT help, and saved me $$$$!!!

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Nolo Press has the best forms and books on uncontested divorce.  Call local bookstores to find out if they have the Nolo Press books. <<where does one get ahold of the proper forms for a divorce that will be uncontested?  no lawyer will be needed so i’m assuming that all i need to do is fill out the forms and file them.  am i way off base?   any help would be appreciated! jack wallen

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where does one get ahold of the proper forms for a divorce that will be uncontested?   Check your local library.  This is where I got my start.  Of course, eventually I contacted a service who walked me through it all for a flat fee of about $200.  Not bad.

A good paralegal can type up all of the forms for a reasonable fee and tell you exactly how to present them to the court.  LEE

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Was yours a friendly divorce?

Question:

Hi, I’m a paralegal in Texas interested in starting a business typing divorce forms for people who want to file uncontested divorce petitions (using no lawyer).  Preferably no kids and the real property has already been divided.  The amount that I would charge would be below $100.

Not the answer you were looking for, but I would be REALLY careful if I were you.  Look very carefully at the ethical standards and definition of a paralegal.  To my knowledge you cannot work directly for a client without a supervising attorney.  If you do it constitutes the unauthorized practice of law.  I noticed you couched your proposal carefully to say you would be "typing up forms" to imply you would not be giving legal advice, but that still does not sound like it would fly, to me.  Check the laws in your state. Joyous M

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Hi, I’m a paralegal in Texas interested in starting a business typing divorce forms for people who want to file uncontested divorce petitions (using no lawyer).  Preferably no kids and the real property has already been divided.  The amount that I would charge would be below $100. Would anyone on here please comment as to any aspects of this business proposal?   Have any or would any of you consider such a service?  Was your divorce "friendly" to begin with?  Would you have done anything differently? I hope I haven’t violated any aspects of the charter for this group. If I have, I apologize.  I am not soliciting customers at this time, and will not in this group.  I’m just trying to find out what the mood is among you.  Obviously, y’all have been there and fought the battles before. (My parents divorced when I was young–I still have the scars 25 years later).   And I wish all of you good luck in the future. Whatever understanding I can gain from your group is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! —

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