Gay Marriage By Any Other Name

Question:

Gay Marriage By Any Other Name means only one thing Perversion.

By whose definition of the word? People should be free to constitute their families any way they see fit. Forcing people into the Judeo-Christian method of marriage, if they should choose to get married, just goes to show that the Untied States gives only lip service to freedom of religion. If we are to be true to the first clause of the First Ammendment then _all_ systems of marriage should be legal.  But our government, and indeed all of the Religious Right, are NOT true to that first clause. When I say all forms of marriage should be legal I don’t just mean gay marriage, I mean ALL forms of marriage.  Polygamy, polyandry, group marriages, line marriages, triads, quadrads, n-ads, etc.  If a Mormon wants to have 27 wives then I say let him.  If a Muslim wants to have all 4 of the wives that Islam allows him then I say let him.  If a group of Yanomami want to have their village marriage then let them.  If a pagan woman wants to keep two husbands then let her. But unfortunately the Radical Religious Right have taken charge, and they are attempting to force all of us to live by _their_ moral standards. The bottom line here is that if you think gay marriage is wrong then don’t get into one. When it comes to perversion, I think the RRR’s perversion of both the legal and democratic systems of the Untied States is about the most perverted thing I have ever seen. AP p.s. Oh, and George.  Please learn how to punctuate.

Response:

<< But he isn’t asking that. He’s asking that it be extended to another group, of which it is not currently extended in the place he apparently resides (sounds like hickstown, or some redneck hillbilly area). I am NOT "asking"…I am DEMANDING! Just as tossing tea into the Boston harbor was a demand, I likewise declare myself a Free Man; and offer this to any good queer-fearing citizen.

The tea into the harbor was a protest against unfair taxation. They destroyed the tea in order to penalize the governors for taxing the citizens, and thusly, raise ‘havoc’ within the upper eschelon. It was not done as a declaration of personal freedom. And I’m demanding it from my city, San Francisco; from my state, California; from my nation, USA; and from my planet: earth.

Umm… I can go along with freedom granted by San Francisco- ’cause you’re all about that thing, but freedom from your state?… um… your state voted in the majority to limit marriage to a union between a man and a woman, so if you want your freedom, then get the citizens of your state to allow it. I’m demanding a nation of our own. I’m demanding secession, to be precise. I’m demanding our own religion, where Jesus is homosexual, and so is His Father. In fact, they are LOVERS! But most of all, I demand:

Oh, I can see the economic statements of the Haute District… and the patent ‘infringement’ lawsuits…. Rainbows, being the representative colors of the homosexual community, and all colors contained within the Rainbow, due to each colors’ interpretation, inclusion and indemnification, are hereby deemed the sole property of the homosexual religion…. vengeance. And that, I shall surely have, in the name of all that’s sacred in the Celtic pantheon of deities of battle, victory, and sweet, sweet revenge.

Hey now!… the Celts worshipped ‘WOOD’ as in trees, not phallic symbols. They also believed in the concept of ‘duality’- the masculine and feminine, anima and animus- one, without the other, was useless. And the last time I say a ‘feminine’ battle was over the last box of Kotex at the local grocery store. I curse all homophobic scum everywhere,

And likewise, I curse all heterophobic scum. It is my U.S. Constitutional right to do so. No matter Chistrian or Muslim, Agnostic or Jew. That they all may be struck down by Gaia’s Own Hand

Am I the only one that has noticed that ‘Global Warming’ has come into being during the same period that homosexual relationships have come into the lime-light? In such a way as could never be blamed on men or man. And pray, just pray, that this doesn’t include YOU! — Let’s secede from those who breed, Make it sin to not waste seed! http://www.gay-bible.org

OK… wait… you profess it to be sin to not waste seed… (read your writing above), but want man to be able to lie with man, and woman to lie with woman….? You know, I’m not against a person’s choice to ‘mate’ with one of the same gender. That is one’s personal choice, and you should have the right to your own destiny. You deserve all the rights of a life-partner. But to call that marriage… is to change the definition of the word. Tomorrow morning, I may as well wake up, get ready for work and call the color of the sky ‘hubcap’. That is what I see with ‘gay marriage’- changing the definition of something everyone has agreed upon into something else. You can’t be happy with something that has the same legal meaning… you have to change the definition of a word….. Even though it obtains the same ending, you’re not happy unless you change the word. So, if you get to have ‘marriage’ for homosexual entities, then I petition that all men who like, and are sexually attracted to woimen to be known, from this point forward, as lesbians. It’s a give and take world. You want marriage for same-sex relationships, then we want lesbianism for ALL, regardless of race or gender, people who want women. Sexual descrimination works both ways.

Response:

Gay Marriage By Any Other Name means only one thing Perversion.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << But he isn’t asking that. He’s asking that it be extended to another group, of which it is not currently extended in the place he apparently resides (sounds like hickstown, or some redneck hillbilly area). I am NOT "asking"…I am DEMANDING! Just as tossing tea into the Boston harbor was a demand, I likewise declare myself a Free Man; and offer this to any good queer-fearing citizen. The tea into the harbor was a protest against unfair taxation. They destroyed the tea in order to penalize the governors for taxing the citizens, and thusly, raise ‘havoc’ within the upper eschelon. It was not done as a declaration of personal freedom. And I’m demanding it from my city, San Francisco; from my state, California; from my nation, USA; and from my planet: earth. Umm… I can go along with freedom granted by San Francisco- ’cause you’re all about that thing, but freedom from your state?… um… your state voted in the majority to limit marriage to a union between a man and a woman, so if you want your freedom, then get the citizens of your state to allow it. I’m demanding a nation of our own. I’m demanding secession, to be precise. I’m demanding our own religion, where Jesus is homosexual, and so is His Father. In fact, they are LOVERS! But most of all, I demand: Oh, I can see the economic statements of the Haute District… and the patent ‘infringement’ lawsuits…. Rainbows, being the representative colors of the homosexual community, and all colors contained within the Rainbow, due to each colors’ interpretation, inclusion and indemnification, are hereby deemed the sole property of the homosexual religion…. vengeance. And that, I shall surely have, in the name of all that’s sacred in the Celtic pantheon of deities of battle, victory, and sweet, sweet revenge. Hey now!… the Celts worshipped ‘WOOD’ as in trees, not phallic symbols. They also believed in the concept of ‘duality’- the masculine and feminine, anima and animus- one, without the other, was useless. And the last time I say a ‘feminine’ battle was over the last box of Kotex at the local grocery store. I curse all homophobic scum everywhere, And likewise, I curse all heterophobic scum. It is my U.S. Constitutional right to do so. No matter Chistrian or Muslim, Agnostic or Jew. That they all may be struck down by Gaia’s Own Hand Am I the only one that has noticed that ‘Global Warming’ has come into being during the same period that homosexual relationships have come into the lime-light? In such a way as could never be blamed on men or man. And pray, just pray, that this doesn’t include YOU! — Let’s secede from those who breed, Make it sin to not waste seed! http://www.gay-bible.org OK… wait… you profess it to be sin to not waste seed… (read your writing above), but want man to be able to lie with man, and woman to lie with woman….? You know, I’m not against a person’s choice to ‘mate’ with one of the same gender. That is one’s personal choice, and you should have the right to your own destiny. You deserve all the rights of a life-partner. But to call that marriage… is to change the definition of the word. Tomorrow morning, I may as well wake up, get ready for work and call the color of the sky ‘hubcap’. That is what I see with ‘gay marriage’- changing the definition of something everyone has agreed upon into something else. You can’t be happy with something that has the same legal meaning… you have to change the definition of a word….. Even though it obtains the same ending, you’re not happy unless you change the word. So, if you get to have ‘marriage’ for homosexual entities, then I petition that all men who like, and are sexually attracted to woimen to be known, from this point forward, as lesbians. It’s a give and take world. You want marriage for same-sex relationships, then we want lesbianism for ALL, regardless of race or gender, people who want women. Sexual descrimination works both ways.

Response:

<< But he isn’t asking that. He’s asking that it be extended to another group, of which it is not currently extended in the place he apparently resides (sounds like hickstown, or some redneck hillbilly area). I am NOT "asking"…I am DEMANDING! Just as tossing tea into the Boston harbor was a demand, I likewise declare myself a Free Man; and offer this to any good queer-fearing citizen. And I’m demanding it from my city, San Francisco; from my state, California; from my nation, USA; and from my planet: earth. I’m demanding a nation of our own. I’m demanding secession, to be precise. I’m demanding our own religion, where Jesus is homosexual, and so is His Father. In fact, they are LOVERS! But most of all, I demand: vengeance. And that, I shall surely have, in the name of all that’s sacred in the Celtic pantheon of deities of battle, victory, and sweet, sweet revenge. I curse all homophobic scum everywhere, No matter Chistrian or Muslim, Agnostic or Jew. That they all may be struck down by Gaia’s Own Hand In such a way as could never be blamed on men or man. And pray, just pray, that this doesn’t include YOU! — Let’s secede from those who breed, Make it sin to not waste seed! http://www.gay-bible.org

Response:

<< But he isn’t asking that. He’s asking that it be extended to another group, of which it is not currently extended in the place he apparently resides (sounds like hickstown, or some redneck hillbilly area). I am NOT "asking"…I am DEMANDING! Just as tossing tea into the Boston harbor was a demand,

No, that was polluting. And a waste of good tea, as well. I likewise declare myself a Free Man; and offer this to any good queer-fearing citizen.

Why would people fear the odd? And I’m demanding it from my city, San Francisco; from my state, California; from my nation, USA; and from my planet: earth.

I’m afraid you cannot claim ownership of any of those things, however. I’m demanding a nation of our own.

I’m curious as to how you became the mouthpiece for all homosexuals. I’m demanding secession, to be precise. I’m demanding our own religion, where Jesus is homosexual, and so is His Father. In fact, they are LOVERS!

Is that fundamentally different than what you have now? I would much rather you demand a secular, free nation. There isn’t one, you know. And there never has been one.   But most of all, I demand: vengeance. And that, I shall surely have, in the name of all that’s sacred in the Celtic pantheon of deities of battle, victory, and sweet, sweet revenge. I curse all homophobic scum everywhere,

What does it mean to curse them? No matter Chistrian or Muslim, Agnostic or Jew. That they all may be struck down by Gaia’s Own Hand In such a way as could never be blamed on men or man.

I don’t disagree, but why stop with the homophobic Christians, Jews and Muslims? And pray, just pray, that this doesn’t include YOU!

Praying is for religious nutjobs. And as a person who is not a homophobe, your prayer wouldn’t include me.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gay Marriage By Any Other Name (c) 2004 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin BORING! There’s nothing sadder than a special interest group whining about how some other special interest group receives special rights that they themselves don’t receive. Why don’t you stop parroting your bigoted agenda and promote equality for all, and discard this ridiculous legal concept of a ‘marriage’? If you just left it at "discard this ridiculous legal concept of a ‘marriage’", you’d have a point. Since "marriage" is only available to certain groups, Yes. Only to two consenting adults.

Of different genders, in most places. he’s not being bigoted in asking for it to be extended to *all* groups. But he isn’t asking that. He’s asking that it be extended to another group, of which it is not currently extended in the place he apparently resides (sounds like hickstown, or some redneck hillbilly area).

Since you snipped his post, I wouldn’t know. Personally, I’d rather see the rights "enshrined" in marriage available to anyone who wants to take up the legal contract Even children? Or by anyone, did you really just mean a group of people you had predetermined but were unwilling to properly delineate?

Children can’t enter into legal contracts anyway, on their own behalf, so your attempted sidetrack is irrelevant , and all the other commitments left up to those who feel it necessary to incorporate religious beliefs into it. Religion is a violation of the UN Charter of Rights and freedoms. It is a violation of most countries’ law to incorporate religious beliefs into anything at all.

Since their laws are usually founded in religious belief of one form or another, you’d have a hard time convincing them of that. Jani

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gay Marriage By Any Other Name (c) 2004 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin BORING! There’s nothing sadder than a special interest group whining about how some other special interest group receives special rights that they themselves don’t receive. Why don’t you stop parroting your bigoted agenda and promote equality for all, and discard this ridiculous legal concept of a ‘marriage’? If you just left it at "discard this ridiculous legal concept of a ‘marriage’", you’d have a point. Since "marriage" is only available to certain groups, Yes. Only to two consenting adults. Of different genders, in most places.

Actually, marriage is not legal at all in most places. he’s not being bigoted in asking for it to be extended to *all* groups. But he isn’t asking that. He’s asking that it be extended to another group, of which it is not currently extended in the place he apparently resides (sounds like hickstown, or some redneck hillbilly area). Since you snipped his post, I wouldn’t know.

You can read the original. Personally, I’d rather see the rights "enshrined" in marriage available to anyone who wants to take up the legal contract Even children? Or by anyone, did you really just mean a group of people you had predetermined but were unwilling to properly delineate? Children can’t enter into legal contracts anyway, on their own behalf, so your attempted sidetrack is irrelevant

Actually, I think the legal marriage age is below the age of majority in many places, which really shoots down that ‘contract’ view. , and all the other commitments left up to those who feel it necessary to incorporate religious beliefs into it. Religion is a violation of the UN Charter of Rights and freedoms. It is a violation of most countries’ law to incorporate religious beliefs into anything at all. Since their laws are usually founded in religious belief of one form or another, you’d have a hard time convincing them of that.

Why should I care about convincing them? They’re criminals.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gay Marriage By Any Other Name (c) 2004 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin BORING! There’s nothing sadder than a special interest group whining about how some other special interest group receives special rights that they themselves don’t receive. Why don’t you stop parroting your bigoted agenda and promote equality for all, and discard this ridiculous legal concept of a ‘marriage’? If you just left it at "discard this ridiculous legal concept of a ‘marriage’", you’d have a point. Since "marriage" is only available to certain groups,

Yes. Only to two consenting adults. he’s not being bigoted in asking for it to be extended to *all* groups.

But he isn’t asking that. He’s asking that it be extended to another group, of which it is not currently extended in the place he apparently resides (sounds like hickstown, or some redneck hillbilly area). Personally, I’d rather see the rights "enshrined" in marriage available to anyone who wants to take up the legal contract

Even children? Or by anyone, did you really just mean a group of people you had predetermined but were unwilling to properly delineate? , and all the other commitments left up to those who feel it necessary to incorporate religious beliefs into it.

Religion is a violation of the UN Charter of Rights and freedoms. It is a violation of most countries’ law to incorporate religious beliefs into anything at all.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gay Marriage By Any Other Name (c) 2004 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin BORING! There’s nothing sadder than a special interest group whining about how  some other special interest group receives special rights that they  themselves don’t receive.  Why don’t you stop parroting your bigoted agenda and promote equality for  all, and discard this ridiculous legal concept of a ‘marriage’? If you just left it at "discard this ridiculous legal concept of a ‘marriage’", you’d have a point. Since "marriage" is only available to certain groups, Yes. Only to two consenting adults. he’s not being bigoted in asking for it to be extended to *all* groups. But he isn’t asking that. He’s asking that it be extended to another group, of which it is not currently extended in the place he apparently  resides (sounds like hickstown, or some redneck hillbilly area). Personally, I’d rather see the rights "enshrined" in marriage available to anyone who wants to take up  the legal contract Even children? Or by anyone, did you really just mean a group of people  you had predetermined but were unwilling to properly delineate? , and all the other commitments left up to those who feel it necessary to incorporate religious beliefs into it. Religion is a violation of the UN Charter of Rights and freedoms. It is  a violation of most countries’ law to incorporate religious beliefs into  anything at all.

Here’s what Article 18 of UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights actually says: "Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance." How do you get "religion is a violation of the UN Charter" out of that??? Nevermore ("Everyone" obviously includes cats)

Response:

Gay Marriage By Any Other Name (c) 2004 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin We the people for a sane world, officially declare 100% support for gay marriage, as a civil right and a birthright. Those religious institutions that condemn such partnerships are in flagrant violation of the US Constitution’s first amendment, which states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." Furthermore, said institutions often encourage attitudes of hatred and promotion of violence against sexual minorities in many other ways, and have a long history of such. And these "godly" organizations remain, as they have for untold centuries, the main and sole cause of virulent homophobia. America would not tolerate such ugly behavior by a religous group towards any other minority, in our modern day. And it is one important tenet of so-called activist judges, to protect a minority from the tyranny of the majority.  Especially when such a minority is more universally hated than any other; as are homosexuals, transexuals and bisexuals. In fact, as oppressed as many minorities remain, most of them still cling to backward and hateful notions against even their own non-heterosexual minorities. The issue of gay marriage has become a glaring example of dangers that arise when church matters are not kept separate from those of the state. Indeed, it has become The Great Test Of Today’s America regarding the issue of individual rights versus majority prejudice. And if we keep moving in that sorry direction much longer, we are likely to see a full-blown holocaust against these long-suffering people. But progressives of all stripes must also share considerable shame, for sometimes participating in homophobic actions (at worst), or looking the other way too often (at best). To rectify this, we stand with other responsible liberals and moderates, who take up the cause of gay equality starting with marriage, in brave and aggressive manners. Even some churches are finally joining in, thus answering to their savior’s message of compassion. I hope this will mark a sea-change in attitude regarding our sexual minorities. We stand with good folks like Assemblymember Mark Leno, with good organizations like Marriage Equality California, and with good media venues like Air America Radio…and demand an apology from politicians such as Senator Diane Feinstein, for suggesting that gay marriage is responsible for contributing to the failure of our recent election. We decry even Senator John Kerry, for stating in a presidential debate that he is Catholic and against gay marriage. And we also condemn former president William Clinton, for his signing of the Defense of Marrage Act and the destructive policy coined Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. Lest we forget: we also condemn as queer turncoats those gay politicians like Barnie Frank, who likewise blame gay marriage for the failure of Kerry to win the presidency. We also acknowledge that none of these four examples are Republicans; in fact they are all regarded as staunch Democrats. (Centrists have proven themselves to be Republican wolves in Donkey hide.) All truly progressive people will not tolerate any more homophobia from our own liberal groups and representatives, and must therefore, if need be, not just condemn but separate ourselves from those who continue to harbor anti-gay attitudes. We must be as clear, as strong, and as unwavering regarding gay marriage, as we have been these many years against racism, misogyny, child abuse, and preemptive declarations of war. For it has become all too obvious that condemnation of gay marriage is a red herring that serves to detract us from the real agenda: removal of all rights by LGBTs to establish them as second-class citizens in perpetuity. And then, the elimination of all rights for every other citizen, except for a remnant of the power elite. In short: Marriage by any other name just doesn’t cut it. Most sincerely, Ezekiel J. Krahlin Queer Voice in the Oscar-Wilderness Permission granted by author for anyone to distribute this writing free of charge (including translation into any language)…under condition that no profit is made therefrom, and that it remain intact and complete, including title and credit to the original author. Ezekiel J. Krahlin http://www.gay-bible.org/

Response:

Gay Marriage By Any Other Name (c) 2004 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin BORING! There’s nothing sadder than a special interest group whining about how some other special interest group receives special rights that they themselves don’t receive. Why don’t you stop parroting your bigoted agenda and promote equality for all, and discard this ridiculous legal concept of a ‘marriage’?

If you just left it at "discard this ridiculous legal concept of a ‘marriage’", you’d have a point. Since "marriage" is only available to certain groups, he’s not being bigoted in asking for it to be extended to *all* groups. Personally, I’d rather see the rights "enshrined" in marriage available to anyone who wants to take up the legal contract, and all the other commitments left up to those who feel it necessary to incorporate religious beliefs into it. Jani

Response:

I”ve been following the gay marriage debate and have these observations: 1.  The whole debate started because people felt that because someone was gay that someone else had the right to smash them over the head with a crow bar.    The whole gay rights movement started out by saying no you don’t havve the right kill someone becuause the "look" gay. 2.  I noticed that where Massachusetts has gay marriage Massachusetts also has the lowest divorce rate in the country.   Imagine that the lowest divorce rate is in a blue state, not a red state. 3.  People in the US are homophobic. Kids in school would call other males gay if they short, don’t have a "low" voice, or are not  good at sports. So they throw the ultimate inslut at these guys, "he is gay." 4. I’m happily married to my wife.  We’ve been married sixteen years. Even if gay marriage continues it’s no skin of my teeth, i’m still happily married. 5.  People keep sayintg gay marrigae threatens tradional marriage between men and women.  Seems to me the divrorce rate  of 50%+  threatens marriage more than gay marriage does.

Response:

Gay Marriage By Any Other Name (c) 2004 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin

BORING! There’s nothing sadder than a special interest group whining about how some other special interest group receives special rights that they themselves don’t receive. Why don’t you stop parroting your bigoted agenda and promote equality for all, and discard this ridiculous legal concept of a ‘marriage’?

Response:

Unlimited Sexual License: The Atheist Idea Of Freedom

Question:

[snip] Can anything bring us to our senses? The evangelical Christians present some hope. Although their numbers are relatively modest, their religion is solid and their high vision of America conforms with what the earliest settlers and the Founding Fathers had in mind.

Funny, that, seeing that many of the FF were openly contemptuous wrt Christianity. — "Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other.  They slander each other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any sort of agreement in their teachings.  Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its own with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its side." – Celsus On the True Doctrine, translated by R. Joseph Hoffman, Oxford University Press, 1987 (random sig, produced by SigChanger) rukbat at verizon dot net

Response:

Free At Last Thomas C. Reeves Mr. Reeves is the author of A Question of Character: A Life of John F. Kennedy. His latest book is America’s Bishop: The Life and Times of Fulton J. Sheen (Encounter, 2001). He’s a Senior Fellow of the Wisconsin Policy Research Institute. Sunday, August 29, 2004

When I married my present wife, I received a limited sexual license. Now it seems to have expired. — Freedom of thought entails no "Intellectual Property".

Response:

I guess this explains why Catholic priests have a rate of HIV infection three times higher than the general public in the US.

Response:

[snip] Can anything bring us to our senses? The evangelical Christians present some hope. Although their numbers are relatively modest, their religion is solid and their high vision of America conforms with what the earliest settlers and the Founding Fathers had in mind.

Hmm. The out of wedlock pregnancy rate was not insignificant among our early settlers. But, setting that aside for the moment; the answer is ‘yes’. Evangelical Christians can do something to counter this trend. Don’t have sex. In fact, in order to make up for the increasing amount of sex that the rest of us are having, don’t even have it within the institution of marriage. In the final analysis, it’ll all average out just fine. — "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes." (If you can read this, you’re overeducated.)

Response:

@stopspam.net: You need a *license* to have sex???  When did this law pass?

    Just give the control freaks in the GOP time – pretty soon you will need their approval to do ANYTHING.    Mitchell Holman   "There ought to be limits to freedom."  George Bush, while trying to shut down  a website doing a parody of him, 1999.

Response:

You need a *license* to have sex???  When did this law pass?

Duh!  How else would the Government be able to tax it? — "By this logic, teaching anti-discrimination against ethnic minorities is  going to turn white people black."      –OrangeSFO on rec.gambling.poker

Response:

You need a *license* to have sex???  When did this law pass?

Mines expired from lack of use!  :(

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Free At Last Thomas C. Reeves Mr. Reeves is the author of A Question of Character: A Life of John F. Kennedy. His latest book is America’s Bishop: The Life and Times of Fulton J. Sheen (Encounter, 2001). He’s a Senior Fellow of the Wisconsin Policy Research Institute. Sunday, August 29, 2004 In Great Britain, the rates of sexually transmitted infections rose again last year. The number of infections&#8212;708,083&#8212;was 4% higher than in 2002. This data does not include HIV infections, also soaring in number. Throughout Europe, since the mid-1990s, sexually transmitted diseases have been on the rise. The data, it seems clear, reflect something that goes beyond medicine. The churches in Europe are largely dead, and most intellectuals, politicians, and judges are militant secularists. Free at last from almost all moral restrictions, the majority of Europeans are doing as they please. And this inevitably means casual sex. The message most often encountered in modern life in the West is sexual license. The media, which dominate our lives, are the major transmitters of this call for the abandonment of all traditional moral strictures and the plunge into hedonism and narcissism. The Left’s response to sexual disease: Use condoms. Have your fun but do it responsibly. The Right’s response: Don’t do it. That’s a message very few want to hear any more. "Why not?" is the question without an appealing answer in our time. While the United States remains the most Christian nation in the West, it too is succumbing to the siren call. Our television commercials, for example, have sent our young people into bars to meet one another for the purpose of sex.

How dare they? Our teachers and professors snicker at "outdated" moral teaching and ban Christian study and prayer. Judges have seen to it that we can have sex education in the schools but not religious instruction, flavored condoms but not the New Testament.

That’s because the New Testament only comes in Original flavor, not grape. The Pfizer company runs vulgar full-page newspaper and television ads urging men of all ages to buy Viagra, wear condoms, and have fun, presumably with as many women (or men) as possible.

Have fun? What’s the world coming to? Living together without marriage is now routine in this country. And so is having children out of wedlock. Why not? We are free at last. The porn industry makes more than $15 billion a year&#8212;more than major league, football, baseball, and basketball combined. Americans spend about half a billion dollars each year on X-rated pay-for-view movies alone, and the profits are soaring. Any child can obtain pornography by pressing a few keys on a computer. It is modern and "cool" to indulge in everything sexual. The devastating impact of this recklessness on the individual’s personal happiness and marriage, not to mention the soul and the eternal consequences of sin, goes largely unheeded in elite circles.

Damn, those elitists are flushing America down the tubes. The Left, in its fury to honor all sexual activity and wreck the traditional family, is brimming over with self-confidence these days. All that remains to take care of are a few pockets of Red State "right-wing extremists." Victory in the presidential election should carry the day, as it will lead to a "progressive" Supreme Court eager to knock out the last barriers to true individual freedom.

Those last barriers are a bitch! Can anything bring us to our senses?

Probably. The evangelical Christians present some hope. Although their numbers are relatively modest, their religion is solid and their high vision of America conforms with what the earliest settlers and the Founding Fathers had in mind. The Catholic Church, with its 65 million members, could be a major force for moral renewal, but its top clergy are unwilling, for a variety of reasons, to use their authority. The Republican Party could do much to alter the slide into decadence if it could concentrate more on its moral proclamations and less on cheap labor and tax advantages for the wealthy. Inspired leaders of the resistance are in short supply everywhere.

Raise the salary. Unless we in the West can find ways to come out of our moral stupor, we face great troubles ahead. After Americans have aborted, say, 100 million babies, and the divorce rate is 85%, and the prisons and mental hospitals are overflowing, and AIDS and related diseases have ravaged our population, what will we have to offer ourselves or the rest of the world beyond decay? Tooth decay. When we face our zealous enemies on the battlefield, we will invite them to an orgy. And we will be helpless. Ignorance of history always has consequences.

Hey dudes, orgy over this way! Rat-a-tat-tat. Kaboom! — Freedom of thought entails no "Intellectual Property".

Response:

You need a *license* to have sex???  When did this law pass? — MarkA (still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)

Response:

You need a *license* to have sex???  When did this law pass?

Send me USD 50, and you’ll get all the documentation for a restricted licence. GBP 750 for an unrestricted licence. I must however point out that the biometric measures and photographs required may have a certain resale value which you may be able to offset against the initial cost. — "Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You." – Attrib: Pauline Reage. Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion? See: <http://www.Video2CD.com. 35.00 gets your video on DVD. all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read. ** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.

Response:

While the United States remains the most Christian nation in the West, it too is succumbing to the siren call. Our television commercials, for example, have sent our young people into bars to meet one another for the purpose of sex. Our teachers and professors snicker at "outdated" moral teaching and ban Christian study and prayer. Judges have seen to it that we can have sex education in the schools but not religious instruction, flavored condoms but not the New Testament. The Pfizer company runs vulgar full-page newspaper and television ads urging men of all ages to buy Viagra, wear condoms, and have fun, presumably with as many women (or men) as possible.

You say that like it’s a bad thing. Must suck to be you.

Response:

Free At Last Thomas C. Reeves

Piss off Spammer, and pander your lies to someone that will believe your shit. <plonk — -Donald in Austin AA #2104 Apatriot #22 Atheist FF/EMT ….and ordained minister Stork pin recipient: May 1, 2003 -Madelyn

Response:

Free At Last Thomas C. Reeves Mr. Reeves is the author of A Question of Character: A Life of John F. Kennedy. His latest book is America’s Bishop: The Life and Times of Fulton J. Sheen (Encounter, 2001). He’s a Senior Fellow of the Wisconsin Policy Research Institute. Sunday, August 29, 2004 In Great Britain, the rates of sexually transmitted infections rose again last year. The number of infections

Women are More Shallow Than Men

Question:

Alvin wrote: > When you compare the two sexes, men are at an extreme disadvantage > when it comes to single life and dating.  The main problem is that > women are more shallow than men.  Yes, the whole rhetoric that she > just wants a man with a good heart can be tossed out the window. > And it is only getting worse.  I chat online, and it seems like more > women message me immediately asking if I have a pic. > Gotta pic?  Yea, and I’m fucking ugly, bitch.  Still want one?

Moot point. Most guys would ask for a pic too. I chat online and it’s nice to see who you are talking to. And regardless of sex,  physical attraction is one of the first things that draws you in to see if theres more. > Of course, women refuse to view themselves as shallow and cold.  They > will still say that that the inside is what counts, personality, > intelligence.  Yet, if you polled most women, they would admit that > physical attraction is a must.

Some women are shallow and cold,,just as some of us guys. Also if you polled most guys they would say the same thing, physical attraction is a must. > The sad fact is that men are not near as shallow when it comes to > physical requirements.   A woman will reject a man immediately for the > most minor physical flaw, yet I don’t know a guy that would turn down > a date with a nice looking lady because say, she had small sized > breasts.   I believe that most men find the majority of women out > there attractive.  Even the plain jane girl out there is attractive. > You just don’t hear of many girls becoming old maids because they are > not asked out.  Heck, even girls with disabilities probably get more > dates than the average joe.

Women look at men differently than men look at women,,us guys are more sexually driven, its our nature. > Men are on the opposite end of the spectrum.   If physical attraction > is a must, what do women consider physically attractive?  This > question will always remain a great mystery because every single women > on the planet has a varying degree of attraction factors.   Therefore, > most guys will face some possibility of rejection with  woman that > they approach.  You may be a good looking dude, but you do not possess > her own unique attraction factors. And no matter how hard you try on > the date, she will reward you with indifference, or "you’re a nice > guy".  Or even worse, you need a combination of factors.    For > example, I’m a hairy chested guy.  Some women will regard that trait > as disgusting..  I’ve had women demand that I shave myself if I go > with them.  Screw you.  I’m not altering my physical being to satisfy > your attraction factor.  On the other hand,  there are women that find > my hair chest to be a turn on.

Everyone is different,,some like this and others like that. If the person in question doesn’t like you for whatever reason ,,then why pursue the matter. You can’t make someone want you. > No matter how you look, there is truly someone out there for everyone. >  Some girl is attracted to your own special features.  The problem is > the chances are slim that you will across paths with a girl that > desires your combination of factors. There are just so many variables > involved.

One of the main factors is being shy and not meeting the amounts of women that non-shy guys meet. Non-shy guys get shot down way more than we do just cause of the volume of women that they meet, and yes they have more success due to the same. You might as well move on if you don’t have that right combo > of factors.  I even know some women that are turned off by body > builders and the Alpha types.  There is just no way of winning.  Only > a lucky roll.

Moving on is good,,why waste time. To me its not as much as do I have what she wants,,its does she have what I want. FiRe

Response:

"Alvin" <alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:d2ec46.0408031431.7099358d@posting.google.com… > No matter how you look, there is truly someone out there for everyone. >  Some girl is attracted to your own special features.  The problem is > the chances are slim that you will across paths with a girl that > desires your combination of factors. There are just so many variables > involved. You might as well move on if you don’t have that right combo > of factors.

Here’s where I disagree with you. I believe that for every man, there are X number of women that he would hit it off amazingly well with. The value of X varies from man to man; for some it’s a few dozen, for most it’s five or six, and for some (Aspergers men, the disabled, the morbidly obese, self-destructive starving artists with long rap sheets and short penises) it’s between zero and two.

Response:

Lash Rambo <lra…@obmarl.com> wrote in message <news:Xns953AD07F8ED55lramboobmarlcom@68.12.19.6>… > alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com (Alvin) wrote in > news:d2ec46.0408031431.7099358d@posting.google.com: > <snip> > Assume for the sake of argument that you’re right, and women are shallower > than men.  Then what?  Where do you go from there?  What do you get out of > the deal?  How is the world a better place as a result of this observation?

Well for one, women need to be taught better.  They grow up being daddy’s little girl, his princess, no man is too good for my baby, and their mom is telling them not to settle.  They go into college feeling like freaking Cinderella deserving of gorgeous Prince Charming while learning that men can easily be manipulated with the power of sex. Just look at the wedding section in the newspaper.  I usually see young very attractive couples.  Women go for the bad boy hotties with the belief that they can tame them once they are married.  As a result, the divorce rate is souring, and when a woman hits her late 30s with stretch marks, she learns that physical attraction does not amount to much.

Response:

alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com (Alvin) wrote in news:d2ec46.0408031431.7099358d@posting.google.com: > When you compare the two sexes, men are at an extreme disadvantage > when it comes to single life and dating.  The main problem is that > women are more shallow than men.  Yes, the whole rhetoric that she > just wants a man with a good heart can be tossed out the window.   > And it is only getting worse.  I chat online, and it seems like more > women message me immediately asking if I have a pic. > Gotta pic?  Yea, and I’m fucking ugly, bitch.  Still want one? > — clip —

Women always will make the choice who they mate with.  You have to live with that.  That is just the way it is.  Men have the power of accepting their offer or not. If you wish to read more about this check the book: "Nice Guys And Players: Becoming the Man Women Want" by Rom Wills.

Response:

alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com (Alvin) wrote in news:d2ec46.0408040624.2d3d1c38@posting.google.com: > Well for one, women need to be taught better.  

Oh for fuck’s sake just shut the hell up.  For the sake of fuck.  I don’t know what that means.

Response:

Eerieness of the Short-Distance Rodent wrote: > alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com (Alvin) wrote in > news:d2ec46.0408040624.2d3d1c38@posting.google.com: >>Well for one, women need to be taught better.   > Oh for fuck’s sake just shut the hell up.  For the sake of fuck.  I don’t > know what that means.

Its Federation of Undesirable and Cuckolded Knights. -M

Response:

"Eerieness of the Short-Distance Rodent" <a…@at.org> wrote in news:Xns953B4E083339Efkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6: > alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com (Alvin) wrote in > news:d2ec46.0408040624.2d3d1c38@posting.google.com: >> Well for one, women need to be taught better.   > Oh for fuck’s sake just shut the hell up.  For the sake of fuck.  I > don’t know what that means.

Also good: For the love of FUCK!

Response:

alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com (Alvin) wrote in message

<news:d2ec46.0408040624.2d3d1c38@posting.google.com>… ** Lash Rambo ** >> Assume for the sake of argument that you’re right, >> and women are shallower than men. Then what?  Where >> do you go from there?  What do you get out of the deal? >> How is the world a better place as a result of this observation?

** Alvin ** > Well for one, women need to be taught better. They grow up being > daddy’s little girl, his princess, no man is too good for my baby,

<snip rest> You’re pulling your punch with this last part. For a stronger rant you want to say "no man is good enough for my baby". Here’s an old post of mine that might be useful for your future rants. ——————————————————————— Message-ID: dd95baf2.0302132035.4a615da0@posting.google.com From:       Virgo Cluster (gamma_n…@yahoo.com) Subject:    Re: i need a break Newsgroups: alt.support.shyness Date:       2003-02-13 20:35:30 PST Honey Bunny 0…@webtv.net (Honey B.) wrote in message <news:2037-3E4BDFF2-194@storefull-2317.public.lawson.webtv.net>… > this is pretty much a rant that ive posted.  i dont really > expect anyone to respond favorably to it but i felt like > posting it and so i did.

I’m sorry, but you need to work on your rants! This rant barely rates one screaming William head out of five. http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Xns931AD885962E4willi…@206.172.150.14 I suppose I could google up some really good rants by meg, Kitz, William, Lisa, and yes, even ness, that you could learn from, but because I value my health I’ll refer you to these instead —-> 1womanscyberpersona (2000-12-02) http://groups.google.com/groups?th=1b1edf92f40f6220 Dave (2002-02-21) http://groups.google.com/groups?th=bd98e5e08ef52acb Sandra (2000-08-18) http://groups.google.com/groups?th=4458f848de48fbc6 Darkfalz (2002-08-22) [A sample from the grandmaster himself!] http://groups.google.com/groups?th=4bf47bb8c1c5ba3f ——————————————————————— Virgo Cluster   "[The UK's 10 Greatest Eurovision Song Contest Flops] (#2)    "The Bad Old Days", by Co-co — 11′th in Paris, 1978." << Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless    Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, p. 162 >>

Response:

alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com (Alvin) wrote in news:d2ec46.0408040624.2d3d1c38@posting.google.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Lash Rambo <lra…@obmarl.com> wrote in message > <news:Xns953AD07F8ED55lramboobmarlcom@68.12.19.6>… >> alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com (Alvin) wrote in >> news:d2ec46.0408031431.7099358d@posting.google.com: >> <snip> >> Assume for the sake of argument that you’re right, and women are >> shallower than men.  Then what?  Where do you go from there?  What do >> you get out of the deal?  How is the world a better place as a result >> of this observation? > Well for one, women need to be taught better.  They grow up being > daddy’s little girl, his princess, no man is too good for my baby, and > their mom is telling them not to settle.  They go into college feeling > like freaking Cinderella deserving of gorgeous Prince Charming while > learning that men can easily be manipulated with the power of sex.

What do you propose as an alternative "teaching?"  Perhaps more importantly, how do you propose parents get their children to actually listen to them?  :) Personally, I haven’t noticed those Cinderella fantasies a problem in most college women.  In particular, college women seemed far more likely to date more or less within their social status than to hold out for some "Prince Charming" to reach down and pull her up a dozen rungs on the social ladder. Heck, it was in college that a woman actually hit on me for a change! > Just look at the wedding section in the newspaper.  I usually see > young very attractive couples.  Women go for the bad boy hotties with > the belief that they can tame them once they are married.  As a > result, the divorce rate is souring,

Is it really?  I thought it’d been holding steady for a while.  Anyone have statistics on this?  Virgo? > and when a woman hits her late > 30s with stretch marks, she learns that physical attraction does not > amount to much.

Nothing an unshallow man couldn’t look past, right?

Response:

JayCee <jc38…@wymnrevil.com> wrote in message <news:41106B8F.43CB66E3@wymnrevil.com>… > Well, it’s true that the average man finds the average woman within his > age group to be attractive, but the average woman finds the average man to > be repulsive. It’s probably also true that about 80% of women  find only > 10% of men to be attractive. So women  will continue to be shallow hoes > and hook up with men "attractive" men who abuse them and use them. Fucking > whores …

I have a theory about this.  IMO women aren’t attracted to men, but to particular men – mainly their romantic interests.  Men, OTOH, are different.  They are sexually attracted to many women. Shooting Star

Response:

<lra…@obmarl.com> wrote in news:Xns953B8E7A9F530lramboobmarlcom@68.12.19.6: > "Eerieness of the Short-Distance Rodent" <a…@at.org> wrote in > news:Xns953B4E083339Efkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6: >> alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com (Alvin) wrote in >> news:d2ec46.0408040624.2d3d1c38@posting.google.com: >>> Well for one, women need to be taught better.   >> Oh for fuck’s sake just shut the hell up.  For the sake of fuck.  I >> don’t know what that means. — > Also good: For the love of FUCK!

Lash Rambo Yes, very good. — >Its Federation of Undesirable and Cuckolded Knights. >M

Hmmmm…

Response:

theinvinciblepu…@hotmail.com (Shooting Star) wrote in message <news:722d925b.0408041840.58a6b8c9@posting.google.com>… > JayCee <jc38…@wymnrevil.com> wrote in message <news:41106B8F.43CB66E3@wymnrevil.com>… > > Well, it’s true that the average man finds the average woman within his > > age group to be attractive, but the average woman finds the average man to > > be repulsive. It’s probably also true that about 80% of women  find only > > 10% of men to be attractive. So women  will continue to be shallow hoes > > and hook up with men "attractive" men who abuse them and use them. Fucking > > whores … > I have a theory about this.  IMO women aren’t attracted to men, but to > particular men – mainly their romantic interests.  Men, OTOH, are > different.  They are sexually attracted to many women. > Shooting Star

lets not generalize……. you cant really force logic onto jaycee audrey

Response:

(Alvin) wrote > When you compare the two sexes, men are at an extreme disadvantage > when it comes to single life and dating.  The main problem is that > women are more shallow than men.

I hate to surprise you dude, but we’re all pretty shallow. And you’re just proving that imo by turning women into the "enemy".   Yes, the whole rhetoric that she > just wants a man with a good heart can be tossed out the window.   > And it is only getting worse.  I chat online, and it seems like more > women message me immediately asking if I have a pic.

LOL You would prefer men to ask you for a pic? Oddly enough more men used to mail me asking for a pic than women. – Michaela

Response:

michaelamackenzie05072…@yahoo.com (Michaela) wrote in news:3271bf15.0408050713.6e545a30@posting.google.com: > I hate to surprise you dude, but we’re all pretty shallow.

Why do you want to brush everyone with same stroke?  ’we’re all manipulative’, ‘we’re all shallow’.  Isn’t that rather meaningless?  Yes we’re all bipeds, but can run faster than others, nonetheless.  I mean, seriously.

Response:

gamma_n…@yahoo.com (Virgo Cluster) wrote in news:dd95baf2.0408041137.4bfc0d2f@posting.google.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com (Alvin) wrote in message > <news:d2ec46.0408040624.2d3d1c38@posting.google.com>… > ** Lash Rambo ** >>> Assume for the sake of argument that you’re right, >>> and women are shallower than men. Then what?  Where >>> do you go from there?  What do you get out of the deal? >>> How is the world a better place as a result of this observation? > ** Alvin ** >> Well for one, women need to be taught better. They grow up being >> daddy’s little girl, his princess, no man is too good for my baby, > <snip rest> > You’re pulling your punch with this last part. For a stronger > rant you want to say "no man is good enough for my baby". > Here’s an old post of mine that might be useful for your > future rants. > ——————————————————————— > Message-ID: dd95baf2.0302132035.4a615…@posting.google.com > From:       Virgo Cluster (gamma_n…@yahoo.com) > Subject:    Re: i need a break > Newsgroups: alt.support.shyness > Date:       2003-02-13 20:35:30 PST > Honey Bunny 0…@webtv.net (Honey B.) wrote in message > <news:2037-3E4BDFF2-194@storefull-2317.public.lawson.webtv.net>… >> this is pretty much a rant that ive posted.  i dont really >> expect anyone to respond favorably to it but i felt like >> posting it and so i did. > I’m sorry, but you need to work on your rants! This rant barely > rates one screaming William head out of five. > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Xns931AD885962E4willi…@206.172.1 > 50.14

Holy crap.  It’s a meta-meta post–a post about a post about a post.  I’m afraid to follow the links, lest I find out they’re meta posts, too!   Aiiigggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I suppose I could google up some really good rants by meg, Kitz, > William, Lisa, and yes, even ness, that you could learn from, > but because I value my health I’ll refer you to these instead —-> > 1womanscyberpersona (2000-12-02) > http://groups.google.com/groups?th=1b1edf92f40f6220 > Dave (2002-02-21) > http://groups.google.com/groups?th=bd98e5e08ef52acb > Sandra (2000-08-18) > http://groups.google.com/groups?th=4458f848de48fbc6 > Darkfalz (2002-08-22) [A sample from the grandmaster himself!] > http://groups.google.com/groups?th=4bf47bb8c1c5ba3f > ——————————————————————— > Virgo Cluster >   "[The UK's 10 Greatest Eurovision Song Contest Flops] (#2) >    "The Bad Old Days", by Co-co — 11′th in Paris, 1978." > << Karl Shaw, "The Mammoth Book of Tasteless >    Lists", Carroll & Graf Publishers, 1998, p. 162 >>

Response:

Eerieness of the Short-Distance Rodent wrote: > (Michaela) wrote >> I hate to surprise you dude, but we’re all pretty shallow. > Why do you want to brush everyone with same stroke?  ’we’re all > manipulative’, ‘we’re all shallow’.  Isn’t that rather meaningless? > Yes we’re all bipeds, but can run faster than others, nonetheless.  I > mean, seriously.

You’re absolutely right. For were it true, you’d not have felt the need to respond. Love – Michaela

Response:

"Michaela" <michaelashouse> wrote in news:4112b21d.0@news1.mweb.co.za: > Eerieness of the Short-Distance Rodent wrote: >> (Michaela) wrote >>> I hate to surprise you dude, but we’re all pretty shallow. >> Why do you want to brush everyone with same stroke?  ’we’re all >> manipulative’, ‘we’re all shallow’.  Isn’t that rather meaningless? >> Yes we’re all bipeds, but can run faster than others, nonetheless.  I >> mean, seriously. > You’re absolutely right. > For were it true, you’d not have felt the need to respond.

Not sure which ‘it’ you’re referring to, unless it’s my incessantly smug nature.

Response:

Eerieness of the Short-Distance Rodent wrote: > "Michaela" wrote >> Eerieness of the Short-Distance Rodent wrote: >>> (Michaela) wrote >>>> I hate to surprise you dude, but we’re all pretty shallow. >>> Why do you want to brush everyone with same stroke?  ’we’re all >>> manipulative’, ‘we’re all shallow’.  Isn’t that rather meaningless? >>> Yes we’re all bipeds, but can run faster than others, nonetheless. >>> I mean, seriously. >> You’re absolutely right. >> For were it true, you’d not have felt the need to respond. > incessantly> smug

Kindly refrain from putting those two words next to each other in a sentence. nature. – Michaela

Response:

alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com (Alvin) wrote in message <news:d2ec46.0408031431.7099358d@posting.google.com>… > When you compare the two sexes, men are at an extreme disadvantage

whine deleted — > No matter how you look, there is truly someone out there for everyone. >  Some girl is attracted to your own special features.  The problem is > the chances are slim that you will across paths with a girl that > desires your combination of factors. There are just so many variables > involved. You might as well move on if you don’t have that right combo > of factors.  I even know some women that are turned off by body > builders and the Alpha types.  There is just no way of winning.  Only > a lucky roll.

well – yeah! true for everybody … boys & girls h*

Response:

alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com (Alvin) wrote in news:d2ec46.0408031431.7099358d@posting.google.com: <snip> Assume for the sake of argument that you’re right, and women are shallower than men.  Then what?  Where do you go from there?  What do you get out of the deal?  How is the world a better place as a result of this observation?

Response:

> alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com (Alvin) wrote in > news:d2ec46.0408031431.7099358d@posting.google.com: > <snip> Lash Rambo wrote: > Assume for the sake of argument that you’re right, and women are shallower > than men.  Then what?  Where do you go from there?  What do you get out of > the deal?  How is the world a better place as a result of this observation?

The purpose of the message was to vent, not to present a course of action, unless the course of action presented was to pull oneself out of the market in futility.

Response:

MCMLXVI <mar…@earthlink.net> wrote in news:z3XPc.8554$Jp6.7471@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net: >> alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com (Alvin) wrote in >> news:d2ec46.0408031431.7099358d@posting.google.com: >> <snip> > Lash Rambo wrote: >> Assume for the sake of argument that you’re right, and women are >> shallower than men.  Then what?  Where do you go from there?  What do >> you get out of the deal?  How is the world a better place as a result >> of this observation? > The purpose of the message was to vent, not to present a course of > action, unless the course of action presented was to pull oneself out > of the market in futility.

He seemed to be trying to prove an assertion, and seemed to remain more or less calm throughout his post, so I assumed it was more than a simple vent.

Response:

Well, it’s true that the average man finds the average woman within his age group to be attractive, but the average woman finds the average man to be repulsive. It’s probably also true that about 80% of women  find only 10% of men to be attractive. So women  will continue to be shallow hoes and hook up with men "attractive" men who abuse them and use them. Fucking whores … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Alvin wrote: > When you compare the two sexes, men are at an extreme disadvantage > when it comes to single life and dating.  The main problem is that > women are more shallow than men.  Yes, the whole rhetoric that she > just wants a man with a good heart can be tossed out the window. > And it is only getting worse.  I chat online, and it seems like more > women message me immediately asking if I have a pic. > Gotta pic?  Yea, and I’m fucking ugly, bitch.  Still want one? > Of course, women refuse to view themselves as shallow and cold.  They > will still say that that the inside is what counts, personality, > intelligence.  Yet, if you polled most women, they would admit that > physical attraction is a must. > The sad fact is that men are not near as shallow when it comes to > physical requirements.   A woman will reject a man immediately for the > most minor physical flaw, yet I don’t know a guy that would turn down > a date with a nice looking lady because say, she had small sized > breasts.   I believe that most men find the majority of women out > there attractive.  Even the plain jane girl out there is attractive. > You just don’t hear of many girls becoming old maids because they are > not asked out.  Heck, even girls with disabilities probably get more > dates than the average joe. > Men are on the opposite end of the spectrum.   If physical attraction > is a must, what do women consider physically attractive?  This > question will always remain a great mystery because every single women > on the planet has a varying degree of attraction factors.   Therefore, > most guys will face some possibility of rejection with  woman that > they approach.  You may be a good looking dude, but you do not possess > her own unique attraction factors. And no matter how hard you try on > the date, she will reward you with indifference, or "you’re a nice > guy".  Or even worse, you need a combination of factors.    For > example, I’m a hairy chested guy.  Some women will regard that trait > as disgusting..  I’ve had women demand that I shave myself if I go > with them.  Screw you.  I’m not altering my physical being to satisfy > your attraction factor.  On the other hand,  there are women that find > my hair chest to be a turn on. > No matter how you look, there is truly someone out there for everyone. >  Some girl is attracted to your own special features.  The problem is > the chances are slim that you will across paths with a girl that > desires your combination of factors. There are just so many variables > involved. You might as well move on if you don’t have that right combo > of factors.  I even know some women that are turned off by body > builders and the Alpha types.  There is just no way of winning.  Only > a lucky roll.

Response:

When you compare the two sexes, men are at an extreme disadvantage when it comes to single life and dating.  The main problem is that women are more shallow than men.  Yes, the whole rhetoric that she just wants a man with a good heart can be tossed out the window.   And it is only getting worse.  I chat online, and it seems like more women message me immediately asking if I have a pic. Gotta pic?  Yea, and I’m fucking ugly, bitch.  Still want one? Of course, women refuse to view themselves as shallow and cold.  They will still say that that the inside is what counts, personality, intelligence.  Yet, if you polled most women, they would admit that physical attraction is a must. The sad fact is that men are not near as shallow when it comes to physical requirements.   A woman will reject a man immediately for the most minor physical flaw, yet I don’t know a guy that would turn down a date with a nice looking lady because say, she had small sized breasts.   I believe that most men find the majority of women out there attractive.  Even the plain jane girl out there is attractive.   You just don’t hear of many girls becoming old maids because they are not asked out.  Heck, even girls with disabilities probably get more dates than the average joe. Men are on the opposite end of the spectrum.   If physical attraction is a must, what do women consider physically attractive?  This question will always remain a great mystery because every single women on the planet has a varying degree of attraction factors.   Therefore, most guys will face some possibility of rejection with  woman that they approach.  You may be a good looking dude, but you do not possess her own unique attraction factors. And no matter how hard you try on the date, she will reward you with indifference, or "you’re a nice guy".  Or even worse, you need a combination of factors.    For example, I’m a hairy chested guy.  Some women will regard that trait as disgusting..  I’ve had women demand that I shave myself if I go with them.  Screw you.  I’m not altering my physical being to satisfy your attraction factor.  On the other hand,  there are women that find my hair chest to be a turn on. No matter how you look, there is truly someone out there for everyone.  Some girl is attracted to your own special features.  The problem is the chances are slim that you will across paths with a girl that desires your combination of factors. There are just so many variables involved. You might as well move on if you don’t have that right combo of factors.  I even know some women that are turned off by body builders and the Alpha types.  There is just no way of winning.  Only a lucky roll.

Response:

"Alvin" <alvinstraigh…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:d2ec46.0408031431.7099358d@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> When you compare the two sexes, men are at an extreme disadvantage > when it comes to single life and dating.  The main problem is that > women are more shallow than men.  Yes, the whole rhetoric that she > just wants a man with a good heart can be tossed out the window. > And it is only getting worse.  I chat online, and it seems like more > women message me immediately asking if I have a pic. > Gotta pic?  Yea, and I’m fucking ugly, bitch.  Still want one? > Of course, women refuse to view themselves as shallow and cold.  They > will still say that that the inside is what counts, personality, > intelligence.  Yet, if you polled most women, they would admit that > physical attraction is a must. > The sad fact is that men are not near as shallow when it comes to > physical requirements.   A woman will reject a man immediately for the > most minor physical flaw, yet I don’t know a guy that would turn down > a date with a nice looking lady because say, she had small sized > breasts.   I believe that most men find the majority of women out > there attractive.  Even the plain jane girl out there is attractive. > You just don’t hear of many girls becoming old maids because they are > not asked out.  Heck, even girls with disabilities probably get more > dates than the average joe. > Men are on the opposite end of the spectrum.   If physical attraction > is a must, what do women consider physically attractive?  This > question will always remain a great mystery because every single women > on the planet has a varying degree of attraction factors.   Therefore, > most guys will face some possibility of rejection with  woman that > they approach.  You may be a good looking dude, but you do not possess > her own unique attraction factors. And no matter how hard you try on > the date, she will reward you with indifference, or "you’re a nice > guy".  Or even worse, you need a combination of factors.    For > example, I’m a hairy chested guy.  Some women will regard that trait > as disgusting..  I’ve had women demand that I shave myself if I go > with them.  Screw you.  I’m not altering my physical being to satisfy > your attraction factor.  On the other hand,  there are women that find > my hair chest to be a turn on. > No matter how you look, there is truly someone out there for everyone. >  Some girl is attracted to your own special features.  The problem is > the chances are slim that you will across paths with a girl that > desires your combination of factors. There are just so many variables > involved. You might as well move on if you don’t have that right combo > of factors.  I even know some women that are turned off by body > builders and the Alpha types.  There is just no way of winning.  Only > a lucky roll.

Nice post, and 100% true.

Response:

sex and the heavy wife

Question:

Let me say a few things about the topic. 1. Being honest and making suggestions about a partner is appropriate.  Just as most woman do not keep quiet about how much a husband makes, where they should live, and how he dresses, a man should be able to make a few suggestions regarding his wife. 2. To simply eliminate sex or punish one’s wife is mean and counterproductive. To say that weight signficantly impacts sex is not accurate. Vaginal size is unaffected by weight.  Oral sex can be nice.  Good sex simply is not correlated with weight; thin women can be inhibited, heavier women can be good partners. One should enjoy a good sex life, but suggestions put nicely regarding weight are appropriate.  

Response:

"Hopey5000" <hopey5…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20040801131207.04469.00000633@mb-m27.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Let me say a few things about the topic. > 1. Being honest and making suggestions about a partner is appropriate. Just as > most woman do not keep quiet about how much a husband makes, where they should > live, and how he dresses, a man should be able to make a few suggestions > regarding his wife. > 2. To simply eliminate sex or punish one’s wife is mean and counterproductive. > To say that weight signficantly impacts sex is not accurate. Vaginal size is > unaffected by weight.  Oral sex can be nice.  Good sex simply is not correlated > with weight; thin women can be inhibited, heavier women can be good partners. > One should enjoy a good sex life, but suggestions put nicely regarding weight > are appropriate.

this problem wouldn’t exist if people used their heads before getting married. If you take pride on the way you look make sure your partner does the same. oh  and vaginal size may not be affected by the weight but it’s dam sure a turn off if you have to reposition the lard surrounding it to get to the promise land.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Arthur" <karthu…@msn.com> wrote in message <news:410d5dcb$0$20996$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>… > "Hopey5000" <hopey5…@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20040801131207.04469.00000633@mb-m27.aol.com… > > Let me say a few things about the topic. > > 1. Being honest and making suggestions about a partner is appropriate. >  Just as > > most woman do not keep quiet about how much a husband makes, where they >  should > > live, and how he dresses, a man should be able to make a few suggestions > > regarding his wife. > > 2. To simply eliminate sex or punish one’s wife is mean and >  counterproductive. > > To say that weight signficantly impacts sex is not accurate. Vaginal size >  is > > unaffected by weight.  Oral sex can be nice.  Good sex simply is not >  correlated > > with weight; thin women can be inhibited, heavier women can be good >  partners. > > One should enjoy a good sex life, but suggestions put nicely regarding >  weight > > are appropriate. > this problem wouldn’t exist if people used their heads before getting > married. > If you take pride on the way you look make sure your partner does the same.

You know, everyone acts like when you get married that it’s supposed to be forever.   Do you know how many people out there get married, have kids, get divorced and get remarried to someone else (or stay single)  and the kids grow up perfectly normal?  Some people make marriage sound like a life deal.  It doesn’t always work out that way.  People change.  Life does go on. > oh  and vaginal size may not be affected by the weight but it’s dam sure a > turn off if you have to reposition the lard surrounding it to get to the > promise land.

You got that right brother.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Terry wrote: > "Arthur" <karthu…@msn.com> wrote in message > <news:410d5dcb$0$20996$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>… >> "Hopey5000" <hopey5…@aol.com> wrote in message >> news:20040801131207.04469.00000633@mb-m27.aol.com… >>> Let me say a few things about the topic. >>> 1. Being honest and making suggestions about a partner is appropriate. Just as >>> most woman do not keep quiet about how much a husband makes, where they >>  should >>> live, and how he dresses, a man should be able to make a few suggestions >>> regarding his wife. >>> 2. To simply eliminate sex or punish one’s wife is mean and counterproductive. >>> To say that weight signficantly impacts sex is not accurate. Vaginal size is >>> unaffected by weight.  Oral sex can be nice.  Good sex simply is not correlated >>> with weight; thin women can be inhibited, heavier women can be good partners. >>> One should enjoy a good sex life, but suggestions put nicely regarding weight >>> are appropriate. >> this problem wouldn’t exist if people used their heads before getting married. >> If you take pride on the way you look make sure your partner does the same. > You know, everyone acts like when you get married that it’s supposed > to be forever.   Do you know how many people out there get married, > have kids, get divorced and get remarried to someone else (or stay > single)  and the kids grow up perfectly normal?  Some people make > marriage sound like a life deal.  It doesn’t always work out that way. >  People change.  Life does go on.

The divorce rate these days is around 50%, I believe.   Whatever that tells you (well, actually that’s rhetorical, isn’t it).

Response:

On 1 Aug 2004 19:36:27 -0700, Terry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<saxxxa…@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Arthur" <karthu…@msn.com> wrote in message <news:410d5dcb$0$20996$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>… >> "Hopey5000" <hopey5…@aol.com> wrote in message >> news:20040801131207.04469.00000633@mb-m27.aol.com… >> > Let me say a few things about the topic. >> > 1. Being honest and making suggestions about a partner is appropriate. >>  Just as >> > most woman do not keep quiet about how much a husband makes, where they >>  should >> > live, and how he dresses, a man should be able to make a few suggestions >> > regarding his wife. >> > 2. To simply eliminate sex or punish one’s wife is mean and >>  counterproductive. >> > To say that weight signficantly impacts sex is not accurate. Vaginal size >>  is >> > unaffected by weight.  Oral sex can be nice.  Good sex simply is not >>  correlated >> > with weight; thin women can be inhibited, heavier women can be good >>  partners. >> > One should enjoy a good sex life, but suggestions put nicely regarding >>  weight >> > are appropriate. >> this problem wouldn’t exist if people used their heads before getting >> married. >> If you take pride on the way you look make sure your partner does the same. > You know, everyone acts like when you get married that it’s supposed > to be forever.   Do you know how many people out there get married, > have kids, get divorced and get remarried to someone else (or stay > single)  and the kids grow up perfectly normal?  Some people make > marriage sound like a life deal.  It doesn’t always work out that way. >  People change.  Life does go on.

If that’s your attitude, maybe you ought to move this to alt.support.divorce. -Tony — "If the grass appears to be greener on the other side of the fence, it’s time to fertilize your lawn!" Want to jump start your marriage?  Consider a Marriage Encounter weekend. Check out http://www.wwme.org for more information.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Arthur wrote: > "Hopey5000" <hopey5…@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20040801131207.04469.00000633@mb-m27.aol.com… >> Let me say a few things about the topic. >> 1. Being honest and making suggestions about a partner is appropriate. > Just as >> most woman do not keep quiet about how much a husband makes, where they > should >> live, and how he dresses, a man should be able to make a few suggestions >> regarding his wife. >> 2. To simply eliminate sex or punish one’s wife is mean and > counterproductive. >> To say that weight signficantly impacts sex is not accurate. Vaginal size > is >> unaffected by weight.  Oral sex can be nice.  Good sex simply is not > correlated >> with weight; thin women can be inhibited, heavier women can be good > partners. >> One should enjoy a good sex life, but suggestions put nicely regarding > weight >> are appropriate. > this problem wouldn’t exist if people used their heads before getting > married. > If you take pride on the way you look make sure your partner does the > same. > oh  and vaginal size may not be affected by the weight but it’s dam sure a > turn off if you have to reposition the lard surrounding it to get to the > promise land.

And if she is too heavy to lift herself;  but:- It depends on whether you want a body or a person. Doug. — ICQ Number 178748389. Registered Linux User No. 277548. Let’s explore.  If we don’t find something pleasant, we will at least find something new.         – Voltaire.

Response:

Look, weight *does* get in the way, especially when non-PIV is a non-starter.  Being a cunning linguist is also difficult since everything is obscured by the angle. That being said, in the case where the body is "apple" shaped rather than "pear", "T", "doggy" and even "spoon" will work reasonably well.  Only in doggy can the male show much enthusiasm; the other two are much slower. I have _no_ idea (beyond "doggy") for those with a wife that is pear-shaped. As for overweight men w/ the same factors, I don’t know.  I’m over-weight but not to that degree. Knowing, could say.  Not knowing so cannot say. — Jack C Lipton | cupasoup at pele dot cx | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/        "While life is too short to be taken seriously, it also lasts        for far too long to spend it with a stick up your ass."  - me

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Doug Laidlaw <laidl…@myaccess.com.au> wrote in message <news:3224u1-134.ln1@dougshost.mydomain.org.au>… > Arthur wrote: > > "Hopey5000" <hopey5…@aol.com> wrote in message > > news:20040801131207.04469.00000633@mb-m27.aol.com… > >> Let me say a few things about the topic. > >> 1. Being honest and making suggestions about a partner is appropriate. >  Just as > >> most woman do not keep quiet about how much a husband makes, where they >  should > >> live, and how he dresses, a man should be able to make a few suggestions > >> regarding his wife. > >> 2. To simply eliminate sex or punish one’s wife is mean and >  counterproductive. > >> To say that weight signficantly impacts sex is not accurate. Vaginal size >  is > >> unaffected by weight.  Oral sex can be nice.  Good sex simply is not >  correlated > >> with weight; thin women can be inhibited, heavier women can be good >  partners. > >> One should enjoy a good sex life, but suggestions put nicely regarding >  weight > >> are appropriate. > > this problem wouldn’t exist if people used their heads before getting > > married. > > If you take pride on the way you look make sure your partner does the > > same. > > oh  and vaginal size may not be affected by the weight but it’s dam sure a > > turn off if you have to reposition the lard surrounding it to get to the > > promise land. > And if she is too heavy to lift herself;  but:- > It depends on whether you want a body or a person.

   First of all, on this Astral Plain, persons come along with bodies. Only in your dreams can the two be dealt with seperately. Second, it is a cruel bit of dis-information to suggest that either men or women stop caring about the things that they find sxually attractive when they get to know someone better.    Consider a married guy who suddenly quits his good job and slobs around the house for no good reason. Maybe his true inner self is the exact same, but you can be sure his wife will stop wanting to have sex with him. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Doug.

Response:

cupas…@peElMe.cx (Jack C Lipton) wrote in message <news:slrncgvka3.sma.cupasoup@soup2nets.net.dhis.org>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Look, weight *does* get in the way, especially when > non-PIV is a non-starter.  Being a cunning linguist > is also difficult since everything is obscured by > the angle. > That being said, in the case where the body is > "apple" shaped rather than "pear", "T", "doggy" and > even "spoon" will work reasonably well.  Only in > doggy can the male show much enthusiasm; the other > two are much slower. > I have _no_ idea (beyond "doggy") for those with a > wife that is pear-shaped. > As for overweight men w/ the same factors, I don’t > know.  I’m over-weight but not to that degree. > Knowing, could say.  Not knowing so cannot say.

How much weight are we discussing???  An elephant?

Response:

You don’t have to become fat. its a choice, maybe an unconscious one, but its still a choice. "Ignoramus24751" <ignoramus24…@NOSPAM.24751.invalid> wrote in message

news:cejqtq$i2r$3@pita.alt.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <410d5dcb$0$20996$9a6e1…@news.newshosting.com>, Arthur wrote: > > this problem wouldn’t exist if people used their heads before > > getting married.  If you take pride on the way you look make sure > > your partner does the same. > Unfortunately, people change and even good looking people, taking > pride etc, one day can easily become fat. There is no assurance. If a > person’s parents and grandparents were all slim though, that’s a good > sign. > i

Response:

Caren wrote: > Jack C Lipton blathered on and on and on: >> As for overweight men w/ the same factors, I don’t >> know.  I’m over-weight but not to that degree. >> Knowing, could say.  Not knowing so cannot say. > How much weight are we discussing???  An elephant?

Well, my wife is approx 150 over;  I’m somewhere around 50 over, perhaps more like 60+.  In the case of my wife it’s the additional problems the weight exacerbates (arthritis, fibromyalgia) that are more of a problem than the weight itself. Of course her lack of enthusiasm (it’s amazing I can get so strung out that I can forget about this and actually show sexual interest myself) provides some of the greatest emotional friction;  her weight and her "issues" from her weight are minor by comparison. We _do_ care about each other, despite the frictions, so the weight doesn’t impact her attractiveness to me as much as any of the other issues. — Jack C Lipton | cupasoup at pele dot cx | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/        "While life is too short to be taken seriously, it also lasts        for far too long to spend it with a stick up your ass."  - me

Response:

I am also loosing it….

Question:

It’s interesting that you mention this, since I always try and breathe more than I usually would, even in normal situations. Tony Robbins devotes and entire session of his self-help CD’s to "teaching" one how to breathe. Not really how to breathe as much as reminding yourself to breathe and not deprive your blood and therefore brain of the oxygen it needs. Even those not suffering from anxiety or other disorders fail to breathe properly and suffer decreased memory, cognitive skills, and just plain old energy. When I’m really stressing, my intent is to back off and take a few breaths, and assess the situation. This simple process reminds me that most anxiety causing issues really aren’t sufficient to "deserve" to cause anxiety, and they disappear-generally. (Generally) PS: It’s just a big party. Dose up and start the day telling yourself that you WILL enjoy this event. There is no rational reason not to have a good time. Remind yourself and convince yourself-it’s true isn’t it? Good Luck! I hope you had a good session with your therapist today — and that you got some good advice.  My only piece of advice is this:  don’t forget to breathe.  That may not seem helpful at this moment, but it can come in handy later on. Deirdre

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<gently snipped ::I’m feeling somewhat better about my daughters step father also walking ::her down the aisle with me.  I don’t have anything against the guy, it ::just caught me off guard.  I’m thinking of suggesting to my daughter ::that when we get to the end of the aisle, I shake his hand before he ::sits down. That IS real classy thing to do. I bet everyone will feel good about it Jackie ~*~Nature made us individuals, as she did the flowers and the pebbles; but we are afraid to be peculiar, and so our society resembles a bag of marbles, or a string of mold candles. Why should we all dress after the same fashion? The frost never paints my windows twice alike~*~     ~~ Lydia Maria Child — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Tony: Sorry I’m late in acknowledging your post.  I did read it and my heart really goes out to you.  IMO, anticipatory anxiety is worse that an actual panic attack.  I think we all can relate to what you are saying.  The attack eases up but the anticipatory anxiety seems to increase as we near the time when we think that we can’t control what happens and we ALWAYS think the worst. I’ve had the "you can’t do this or you can’t do that" anxiety monkey whispering in my mind’s ear for over 40 years and I can truthfully say the worse senerio the monkey tries to build in your mind very rarely, if ever happens.  The "stinkin thinkin" is just that.  Course words don’t seem to help chase it away, do they? I finally got to the point where I thot the anxicipatory anxiety I was experiencing in my job was going to put me in an early grave.  I would have anticipatory anxiety for months ahead of the day when I knew I would have to attend a 2 day workshop/staff meeting and speak in front of people (my absolute worst fear).  I finally had had enough and went into my boss and told he NO, I’m not can’t do it, I’m phobic beyond all reason and I’ve been receiving treatment for it.  That NO and explanation why (hidden for so long) made the anxiety fall away like layers off an onion.  The next time the monkey reared its ugly presence,  I just said f*ck it — come and get me you rotten anxiety monkey and get it over with. The monkey  didn’t seem to know how to react.  It kind of went and hid. When you look the anxiety in the face and tell it do it’s worst, it runs away.  Sooooooo instead of continuing to throw words at you, I have this advise, don’t give a chit about what YOU think others may be thinking of you cause you can never know what they are thinking, nor should you care.  Just go with the flow — follow your gut. No one will fault you for trying to take care of your health if you don’t follow a rigid script.  Give yourself the permission to say NO and accept that you have an illness that needs taking care of.  To hell with everyone else.  Trust me, your daughter’s wedding will be just great and you’ll be fine. I wish you good luck, send you vibes of strength and am interested to read what the pdoc had to offer you on your current visit. -frizz — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Sorry I can’t reply to each of you individually, it would take me hours (this reply has taken about an hour)(no, over an hour).  Damn OCD! I just want to thank everyone for the support and tips and all that. Going to the bluegrass event again still has me worked up and I’ve been taking 2mgs of ativan/day PRN which I seldom take normally.  (that is on top of 5mgs of klonopin)  I’m afraid it’s paranoia and not anxiety, and that’s why it isn’t helping. My Dr. appointment went OK except for the fact that he also thinks it’s paranoia, not anxiety.  So he increased my Seroquel from 500mg to 600mg/day.  :-(  We were going to try to let me to learn how to handle the paranoia instead of increasing the meds, but I have a difficult time learning, especially under recent conditions.  Maybe being more medicated will give me a chance to learn how to cope without so much meds?  Or maybe I’ll just be a zombie?  Actually I took the higher dose last night and I have managed to get out of bed and be semi functional today.  I may also change the way I was taking it, which was a small dose in the AM, and in the PM, then a large dose at bedtime.  I may try taking it all at bedtime (which is the ‘normal’ way of taking it for most people).  The only reason I was taking it 3X a day was to ward off the Seroquel shakes, so I’ll just have to see what happens. The therapist appointment was OK.  There were no big breakthroughs except she drilled it into my head that I can call her cell phone ANYTIME.  If she doesn’t answer I should leave a message.  She did tell me that I could meet her at any church during the day and she would go in with me.  That’s nice but I told her that I have no problem with an empty church, it’s probably not even the church I’m phobic of, it’s the people in it!  I never realized that before. I’m feeling somewhat better about my daughters step father also walking her down the aisle with me.  I don’t have anything against the guy, it just caught me off guard.  I’m thinking of suggesting to my daughter that when we get to the end of the aisle, I shake his hand before he sits down. That’s all for now! Thanks everyone, Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My Daughter has been making wonderful progress planning her wedding ahead of time.  It looks like Friday Sept. 22 will be the wedding and reception.  That is in 6 weeks. I’m a nervous wreck.  I keep worrying about passing out in church, but I did get word that there will not be a church service, just the marriage.  :-) Whooo Hooooo!!!!!! She also told me that she will tell the (catholic) priest that no way are they to get out that stinky incense.  That is a giant trigger for me.  I’ll either be passed out or be running out the door! The anxiety is worse every day. I’m also having a problem coping with one part of the wedding.  She asked me how I felt about asking her stepfather to walk her down the isle with one of us on each side.  Then he would sit down and I would stay with her to give her away. She asked me how I would feel and I told her it will make me very uncomfortable, but it is *her* wedding.  So she asked him to do it anyway.  Shit, why bother asking me at all? The other part that makes it all so difficult is my paranoia.  I have problems thinking people are talking about me.  So now having him in the wedding a little bit just makes me think of more stories people will tell.  I guess I’m thinking they will say that I wasn’t a good father or something, I really don’t know.  All I know is that it is slightly different than the norm, so therefore it makes me more anxious/paranoid. Tomorrow, Friday 11th I will see both Dr. and psychologist so I hope I’ll get some good feedback that I can actually remember. It really sucks that what should be one of the happiest days of my life, (if it goes anything like the rest of my life), will be a LIVING HELL!!!  Yes I know I’m projecting, but no one knows me like I do. I sure don’t want a repeat of my wedding/reception when my anxiety was so bad that I was VERY close to walking into a moving car just so I could get a ride to the hospital and away from the reception. I already know that all the pills in the world won’t fix things, I’ve tried taking more and then I just worry about being f’ed up.

– Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

At my step sisters wedding we had her mother and two step mothers and father and step father.  Both fathers walked her down the isle.

That’s cool, I’m no longer dreading *that part* anymore! The wedding was a great success!  And so has the marriage been.

That’s good to hear also! We have such a high divorce rate that the part about "until death do us part" is pretty much a joke. — Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<gently snipped ::I’m feeling somewhat better about my daughters step father also walking ::her down the aisle with me.  I don’t have anything against the guy, it ::just caught me off guard.  I’m thinking of suggesting to my daughter ::that when we get to the end of the aisle, I shake his hand before he ::sits down. That IS real classy thing to do. I bet everyone will feel good about it

Thanks.  I told my daughter and she seemed as if she didn’t understand why, but that it’s fine with her.  Minutes later her mother called me with some questions and I mentioned it to her.  She was also surprised, in fact she thought I may hate the whole idea.  I told her that it took me by surprise and I was a little upset at first, but the more I thought about it, the better it looked. — Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

[...] My Dr. appointment went OK except for the fact that he also thinks it’s paranoia, not anxiety.  So he increased my Seroquel from 500mg to 600mg/day.  :-(  We were going to try to let me to learn how to handle the paranoia instead of increasing the meds, but I have a difficult time learning, especially under recent conditions.  Maybe being more medicated will give me a chance to learn how to cope without so much meds?  Or maybe I’ll just be a zombie?  Actually I took the higher dose last night and I have managed to get out of bed and be semi functional today.  I may also change the way I was taking it, which was a small dose in the AM, and in the PM, then a large dose at bedtime.  I may try taking it all at bedtime (which is the ‘normal’ way of taking it for most people).  The only reason I was taking it 3X a day was to ward off the Seroquel shakes, so I’ll just have to see what happens.

Hope the med change helps Tony! If the night time dosing doesn’t work you can always go back to having a morning dose. The therapist appointment was OK.  There were no big breakthroughs except she drilled it into my head that I can call her cell phone ANYTIME.  If she doesn’t answer I should leave a message.  She did tell me that I could meet her at any church during the day and she would go in with me.  That’s nice but I told her that I have no problem with an empty church, it’s probably not even the church I’m phobic of, it’s the people in it!  I never realized that before.

She really sounds like a keeper! It might help you to walk around the church a few times anyway even if it’s the people that you’re phobic of… I’m usually better able to deal with anxiety in a familiar setting. I’m feeling somewhat better about my daughters step father also walking her down the aisle with me.  I don’t have anything against the guy, it just caught me off guard.  I’m thinking of suggesting to my daughter that when we get to the end of the aisle, I shake his hand before he sits down.

Now that is a brilliant idea, I really like it! Mature men in similar situations will make this standard practise, I’m sure… acknowledging each other’s role in the bride’s life kind of thing. — Vashti — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

A schreef: I’m feeling somewhat better about my daughters step father also walking her down the aisle with me.  I don’t have anything against the guy, it just caught me off guard.  I’m thinking of suggesting to my daughter that when we get to the end of the aisle, I shake his hand before he sits down. Tony, what a wonderful gesture!  I am really impressed that you thought of this… your daughter will be very pleased, too, I’m sure. Bravo. xxoo Anne

I want to echo this sentiment. You’re a great guy, Tony (well, what else is new?) I’m sure you will manage allright, So often the anticipatory anxiety is worse than the actual event. Others have already spoke words of wisdom about this so I’ll keep my trap shut for now… Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Tono, I hope the med increase helps you.  You are sounding stressed???? Yes, I’m incredibly stressed.  I can’t help projecting that my daughters marriage will be like mine did twice.  The worry is getting to be a little less, but it’s still on my mind every day.  Just now I realized I am never telling myself that they will live "happily ever after".  I suppose if I can get my head to stop sabotaging any good thoughts I may get a break in the stress.  I’ll be working on it.

***Keep working on it…  Your daughter is old enough to make this decision. You can’t let your past determine what could happen in your daughter’s life. Enjoy listening ot her preparation for the wedding and deep breathe.  It’s mostly on her shoulders and you only have to show up…<g The other big stress is the wedding itself.  Imagining myself all wrapped up in a tux and standing in church, I can’t help thinking I will pass out. It wouldn’t be the first time.  I have to remember not to lock my knees!

***Sure it’s a stressor.  It is for everyone and most father’s feel the anxiety you feel.  So you must be normal!!! "I’m thinking of suggesting to my daughter that when we get to the end of the aisle, I shake his hand before he sits down" – WOW, what can I say but that’ classy!!!!! Hmm… classy huh?  Well then I hope my daughter likes the idea.  For me it will take some of the edge off.  I don’t know why, or how to describe it, but it will for some reason make me feel more at ease.  I never had a big problem with the guy, hell, if he can put up with my Ex then he’s doing good!  ;-)

***I’m sure your daughter will love the idea and be very proud of you for presenting it to her. smiles, Elise — Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Tono, Like Ron said fathers of the bride fade into the background and while walking down the aisle people are focused on the bride and her dress… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One thing to keep telling yourself Tony is that it is your daughter’s day and not yours. If there is going to be any talking going on it will be about her and not you. Brides are always the centre of attention and we fathers fade very quickly into the background. In my case, being the "proud papa" took care of most of my anxiety as it changed my focus from me to her. It would appear that your daughter has taken steps to make you as comfortable as possible and that is a good thing. Good luck Tony. — Ron P The trouble with sitting on the fence is getting pickets up the butt — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Tony: Sounds as tho you’re making some progress.  The idea of the handshake at the end of the isle at your daughter’s wedding is GREAT.  Just for you to be able to think that up should have you patting yourself on the back.  WTG. I’m kind of curious about why you and/or your doc may believe that its not anxiety but paranoia from which you suffer.  IMO, the literature shows that there is a clear difference between paranoia and panick attacks. Paranoia can be present during a panic attack but I think that a diagnosis of paranoia would include forms of delusion, (i.e. the belief [usually a very strong one and long lasting] that someone is actively "out to get you."  Not just what YOU think someone may be thinking about you.  That is just projecting your own thinking onto others (something quite different)  Plus, the person who is paranoid usually is not aware of the fact he/she is paranoid and is sure that his/her paranoia is a true reflection of reality. Is this the way you feel?  I don’t seem to be getting a clear picture here.  Maybe its just me too now understand correctly. You’ll have fun at the Bluegrass event (even tho you may not think so before hand).  Good luck with the med. adjustments.  Keep posting here as often as you can in order to keep the good vibes flowing from your fellow sufferes.   -frizz — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Tono, I hope the med increase helps you.  You are sounding stressed???? "I’m thinking of suggesting to my daughter that when we get to the end of the aisle, I shake his hand before he sits down" – WOW, what can I say but that’ classy!!!!! smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry I can’t reply to each of you individually, it would take me hours (this reply has taken about an hour)(no, over an hour).  Damn OCD! I just want to thank everyone for the support and tips and all that. Going to the bluegrass event again still has me worked up and I’ve been taking 2mgs of ativan/day PRN which I seldom take normally.  (that is on top of 5mgs of klonopin)  I’m afraid it’s paranoia and not anxiety, and that’s why it isn’t helping. My Dr. appointment went OK except for the fact that he also thinks it’s paranoia, not anxiety.  So he increased my Seroquel from 500mg to 600mg/day.  :-(  We were going to try to let me to learn how to handle the paranoia instead of increasing the meds, but I have a difficult time learning, especially under recent conditions.  Maybe being more medicated will give me a chance to learn how to cope without so much meds?  Or maybe I’ll just be a zombie?  Actually I took the higher dose last night and I have managed to get out of bed and be semi functional today.  I may also change the way I was taking it, which was a small dose in the AM, and in the PM, then a large dose at bedtime.  I may try taking it all at bedtime (which is the ‘normal’ way of taking it for most people).  The only reason I was taking it 3X a day was to ward off the Seroquel shakes, so I’ll just have to see what happens. The therapist appointment was OK.  There were no big breakthroughs except she drilled it into my head that I can call her cell phone ANYTIME.  If she doesn’t answer I should leave a message.  She did tell me that I could meet her at any church during the day and she would go in with me.  That’s nice but I told her that I have no problem with an empty church, it’s probably not even the church I’m phobic of, it’s the people in it!  I never realized that before. I’m feeling somewhat better about my daughters step father also walking her down the aisle with me.  I don’t have anything against the guy, it just caught me off guard.  I’m thinking of suggesting to my daughter that when we get to the end of the aisle, I shake his hand before he sits down. That’s all for now! Thanks everyone, Tony My Daughter has been making wonderful progress planning her wedding ahead of time.  It looks like Friday Sept. 22 will be the wedding and reception.  That is in 6 weeks. I’m a nervous wreck.  I keep worrying about passing out in church, but I did get word that there will not be a church service, just the marriage. Whooo Hooooo!!!!!! She also told me that she will tell the (catholic) priest that no way are they to get out that stinky incense.  That is a giant trigger for me. I’ll either be passed out or be running out the door! The anxiety is worse every day. I’m also having a problem coping with one part of the wedding.  She asked me how I felt about asking her stepfather to walk her down the isle with one of us on each side.  Then he would sit down and I would stay with her to give her away. She asked me how I would feel and I told her it will make me very uncomfortable, but it is *her* wedding.  So she asked him to do it anyway.  Shit, why bother asking me at all? The other part that makes it all so difficult is my paranoia.  I have problems thinking people are talking about me.  So now having him in the wedding a little bit just makes me think of more stories people will tell.  I guess I’m thinking they will say that I wasn’t a good father or something, I really don’t know.  All I know is that it is slightly different than the norm, so therefore it makes me more anxious/paranoid. Tomorrow, Friday 11th I will see both Dr. and psychologist so I hope I’ll get some good feedback that I can actually remember. It really sucks that what should be one of the happiest days of my life, (if it goes anything like the rest of my life), will be a LIVING HELL!!! Yes I know I’m projecting, but no one knows me like I do. I sure don’t want a repeat of my wedding/reception when my anxiety was so bad that I was VERY close to walking into a moving car just so I could get a ride to the hospital and away from the reception. I already know that all the pills in the world won’t fix things, I’ve tried taking more and then I just worry about being f’ed up. — Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Tony: Sounds as tho you’re making some progress.  The idea of the handshake at the end of the isle at your daughter’s wedding is GREAT.  Just for you to be able to think that up should have you patting yourself on the back.  WTG.

Thanks.  Pat, pat, pat. I’m kind of curious about why you and/or your doc may believe that its not anxiety but paranoia from which you suffer.  IMO, the literature shows that there is a clear difference between paranoia and panick attacks.

Actually I have both anxiety/panic, and a separate diagnosis of schizo-affective disorder for many years now.  The schizo whatever is for real.  I won’t get into details, but I’ve had years and years of schizophrenic type symptoms.  Some is just paranoia, and other stuff, ??? made up in my head I guess.  It simply never was as bad as a typical schizophrenic experiences.  Who knows, maybe I have a "mild case" of schizophrenia?  The name doesn’t matter to me, just the treatment. You’ll have fun at the Bluegrass event (even tho you may not think so before hand).  Good luck with the med. adjustments.  Keep posting here as often as you can in order to keep the good vibes flowing from your fellow sufferes.  

Sorry to say the Bluegrass Event is over, and at my therapists last night I figured that I had about 10% enjoyment without worry, 30% bad anxiety/mild paranoia but forced myself to try and enjoy it, and 60% completely wishing I wasn’t there at all.  I left a day early and missed one of my favorite groups. — Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Tono, I hope the med increase helps you.  You are sounding stressed????

Yes, I’m incredibly stressed.  I can’t help projecting that my daughters marriage will be like mine did twice.  The worry is getting to be a little less, but it’s still on my mind every day.  Just now I realized I am never telling myself that they will live "happily ever after".  I suppose if I can get my head to stop sabotaging any good thoughts I may get a break in the stress.  I’ll be working on it. The other big stress is the wedding itself.  Imagining myself all wrapped up in a tux and standing in church, I can’t help thinking I will pass out.  It wouldn’t be the first time.  I have to remember not to lock my knees! "I’m thinking of suggesting to my daughter that when we get to the end of the aisle, I shake his hand before he sits down" – WOW, what can I say but that’ classy!!!!!

Hmm… classy huh?  Well then I hope my daughter likes the idea.  For me it will take some of the edge off.  I don’t know why, or how to describe it, but it will for some reason make me feel more at ease.  I never had a big problem with the guy, hell, if he can put up with my Ex then he’s doing good!  ;-) — Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’m feeling somewhat better about my daughters step father also walking her down the aisle with me.  I don’t have anything against the guy, it just caught me off guard.  I’m thinking of suggesting to my daughter that when we get to the end of the aisle, I shake his hand before he sits down.

Tony, what a wonderful gesture!  I am really impressed that you thought of this… your daughter will be very pleased, too, I’m sure. Bravo. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My Daughter has been making wonderful progress planning her wedding ahead of time.  It looks like Friday Sept. 22 will be the wedding and reception. That is in 6 weeks. I’m a nervous wreck.  I keep worrying about passing out in church, but I did get word that there will not be a church service, just the marriage. Whooo Hooooo!!!!!! She also told me that she will tell the (catholic) priest that no way are they to get out that stinky incense.  That is a giant trigger for me. I’ll either be passed out or be running out the door! The anxiety is worse every day. I’m also having a problem coping with one part of the wedding.  She asked me how I felt about asking her stepfather to walk her down the isle with one of us on each side.  Then he would sit down and I would stay with her to give her away. She asked me how I would feel and I told her it will make me very uncomfortable, but it is *her* wedding.  So she asked him to do it anyway. Shit, why bother asking me at all? The other part that makes it all so difficult is my paranoia.  I have problems thinking people are talking about me.  So now having him in the wedding a little bit just makes me think of more stories people will tell. I guess I’m thinking they will say that I wasn’t a good father or something, I really don’t know.  All I know is that it is slightly different than the norm, so therefore it makes me more anxious/paranoid. Tomorrow, Friday 11th I will see both Dr. and psychologist so I hope I’ll get some good feedback that I can actually remember. It really sucks that what should be one of the happiest days of my life, (if it goes anything like the rest of my life), will be a LIVING HELL!!! Yes I know I’m projecting, but no one knows me like I do. I sure don’t want a repeat of my wedding/reception when my anxiety was so bad that I was VERY close to walking into a moving car just so I could get a ride to the hospital and away from the reception. I already know that all the pills in the world won’t fix things, I’ve tried taking more and then I just worry about being f’ed up. — Tony Tony,

One thing to keep telling yourself Tony is that it is your daughter’s day and not yours. If there is going to be any talking going on it will be about her and not you. Brides are always the centre of attention and we fathers fade very quickly into the background. In my case, being the "proud papa" took care of most of my anxiety as it changed my focus from me to her. It would appear that your daughter has taken steps to make you as comfortable as possible and that is a good thing. Good luck Tony. — Ron P The trouble with sitting on the fence is getting pickets up the butt — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My Daughter has been making wonderful progress planning her wedding ahead of time.  It looks like Friday Sept. 22 will be the wedding and reception.  That is in 6 weeks. I’m a nervous wreck.  I keep worrying about passing out in church, but I did get word that there will not be a church service, just the marriage.   Whooo Hooooo!!!!!! She also told me that she will tell the (catholic) priest that no way are they to get out that stinky incense.  That is a giant trigger for me.  I’ll either be passed out or be running out the door! The anxiety is worse every day. I’m also having a problem coping with one part of the wedding.  She asked me how I felt about asking her stepfather to walk her down the isle with one of us on each side.  Then he would sit down and I would stay with her to give her away. She asked me how I would feel and I told her it will make me very uncomfortable, but it is *her* wedding.  So she asked him to do it anyway.  Shit, why bother asking me at all? The other part that makes it all so difficult is my paranoia.  I have problems thinking people are talking about me.  So now having him in the wedding a little bit just makes me think of more stories people will tell.  I guess I’m thinking they will say that I wasn’t a good father or something, I really don’t know.  All I know is that it is slightly different than the norm, so therefore it makes me more anxious/paranoid. Tomorrow, Friday 11th I will see both Dr. and psychologist so I hope I’ll get some good feedback that I can actually remember. It really sucks that what should be one of the happiest days of my life, (if it goes anything like the rest of my life), will be a LIVING HELL!!!   Yes I know I’m projecting, but no one knows me like I do. I sure don’t want a repeat of my wedding/reception when my anxiety was so bad that I was VERY close to walking into a moving car just so I could get a ride to the hospital and away from the reception. I already know that all the pills in the world won’t fix things, I’ve tried taking more and then I just worry about being f’ed up. — Tony

I hope you had a good session with your therapist today — and that you got some good advice.  My only piece of advice is this:  don’t forget to breathe.  That may not seem helpful at this moment, but it can come in handy later on. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My Daughter has been making wonderful progress planning her wedding ahead of time.  It looks like Friday Sept. 22 will be the wedding and reception.  That is in 6 weeks. I’m a nervous wreck.  I keep worrying about passing out in church, but I did get word that there will not be a church service, just the marriage.   Whooo Hooooo!!!!!! She also told me that she will tell the (catholic) priest that no way are they to get out that stinky incense.  That is a giant trigger for me.  I’ll either be passed out or be running out the door! The anxiety is worse every day. I’m also having a problem coping with one part of the wedding.  She asked me how I felt about asking her stepfather to walk her down the isle with one of us on each side.  Then he would sit down and I would stay with her to give her away. She asked me how I would feel and I told her it will make me very uncomfortable, but it is *her* wedding.  So she asked him to do it anyway.  Shit, why bother asking me at all? The other part that makes it all so difficult is my paranoia.  I have problems thinking people are talking about me.  So now having him in the wedding a little bit just makes me think of more stories people will tell.  I guess I’m thinking they will say that I wasn’t a good father or something, I really don’t know.  All I know is that it is slightly different than the norm, so therefore it makes me more anxious/paranoid. Tomorrow, Friday 11th I will see both Dr. and psychologist so I hope I’ll get some good feedback that I can actually remember. It really sucks that what should be one of the happiest days of my life, (if it goes anything like the rest of my life), will be a LIVING HELL!!!   Yes I know I’m projecting, but no one knows me like I do. I sure don’t want a repeat of my wedding/reception when my anxiety was so bad that I was VERY close to walking into a moving car just so I could get a ride to the hospital and away from the reception. I already know that all the pills in the world won’t fix things, I’ve tried taking more and then I just worry about being f’ed up. — Tony

Tony.. I bet Rita remembers my freak out on the fact I had to walk down the aisle at my son’s wedding. He had over 300 guests – SRO and churches are probably the biggest trigger of all triggers for my panic. Oh boy.. I just had fits over this. Not only a church – a crowded church and I had to WALK down an AISLE. I was certain I would fall or something horrible would happen. Just sure of it. Turned out to be the best..I mean the BEST night of my life. I was never ever so proud. If I live to be 200, I will never have a happier one.  That’s the truth.  You take your meds. More than the usual if you need to.. you’ll do fine, and you will enjoy yourself. Just wait and see. Sally (who’s glad she had male children when it comes to weddings.) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Tono,

My Daughter has been making wonderful progress planning her wedding ahead of time.  It looks like Friday Sept. 22 will be the wedding and reception. That is in 6 weeks. I’m a nervous wreck.  I keep worrying about passing out in church, but I did get word that there will not be a church service, just the marriage. Whooo Hooooo!!!!!!

***If it’s only a marriage ceremony then it  won’t take long.  Keep telling yourself you’ll be in and out in no time.  I worried a lot about the church part with my daughter’s weddig and it was a formal Catholic church wedding. Upped my meds for the day and I was fine.  No one would hav ever known that I suffer with anxiety.  Prior to the mass, I was too busy with little details.  Do you have a safe person with you in the family who can help you with this? She also told me that she will tell the (catholic) priest that no way are they to get out that stinky incense.  That is a giant trigger for me. I’ll either be passed out or be running out the door!

***Well there’s a positive.  That smell is horrendous. The anxiety is worse every day.

***One day at a time…  Up the meds when needed!!! I’m also having a problem coping with one part of the wedding.  She asked me how I felt about asking her stepfather to walk her down the isle with one of us on each side.  Then he would sit down and I would stay with her to give her away. She asked me how I would feel and I told her it will make me very uncomfortable, but it is *her* wedding.  So she asked him to do it anyway. Shit, why bother asking me at all?

***True, it is her wedding and I lost a few times with the way I would have liked things to be done but all in all, she’s "da bride".  You get the true honor of giving her away.  Try to focus on this positive thing.  Many young women are faced with this dilema today.  I found out that letting my daughter do it her way worked out the best to keep the stress down.   It will be a wonderful occassion for you no matter if her stepfather is involved.  She’s your daughter… The other part that makes it all so difficult is my paranoia.  I have problems thinking people are talking about me.  So now having him in the wedding a little bit just makes me think of more stories people will tell. I guess I’m thinking they will say that I wasn’t a good father or something, I really don’t know.  All I know is that it is slightly different than the norm, so therefore it makes me more anxious/paranoid.

***You’ll be so wrapped up in watching her get married and then moving on to the reception that you won’t have time to be bothered with what you think other people are saying.  And if they do, who gives a frog’s fat fart…<g Tomorrow, Friday 11th I will see both Dr. and psychologist so I hope I’ll get some good feedback that I can actually remember.

***How did your appointments go today?  Were you able to make any headway with the wedding issues? Tono, believe me, you’ll be fine and other members of your family will be there.  Simply implant yourself with them during most of the pre-wedding and reception.  It will go by so quickly and at some point you’ll wish you could do it all over again. It really sucks that what should be one of the happiest days of my life, (if it goes anything like the rest of my life), will be a LIVING HELL!!! Yes I know I’m projecting, but no one knows me like I do.

***Quit the stinkin’ thinking.  You will do well.  At some point prior to the service and at the reception step back and scan over the view of what’s going on.  Hubby and I did this a few times so we could get some vivid memories of the wedding. I sure don’t want a repeat of my wedding/reception when my anxiety was so bad that I was VERY close to walking into a moving car just so I could get a ride to the hospital and away from the reception.

***The focus will be on your daughter and future SIL.  People more or less forget you’re even there except to say "hi" and "what a lovely wedding it is", etc…  Just smile and agree with them. I already know that all the pills in the world won’t fix things, I’ve tried taking more and then I just worry about being f’ed up.

***YOU’LL BE FINE!!!  I had some of the same worries and am still living. Vent all you need to. smiles, Elise — Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<gently snipped ::Tomorrow, Friday 11th I will see both Dr. and psychologist so I hope ::I’ll get some good feedback that I can actually remember. :: ::It really sucks that what should be one of the happiest days of my life, ::(if it goes anything like the rest of my life), will be a LIVING HELL!!! ::  Yes I know I’m projecting, but no one knows me like I do. :: ::I sure don’t want a repeat of my wedding/reception when my anxiety was ::so bad that I was VERY close to walking into a moving car just so I ::could get a ride to the hospital and away from the reception. :: ::I already know that all the pills in the world won’t fix things, I’ve ::tried taking more and then I just worry about being f’ed up. Dear Tony, I understand how terrifying it is to have an event such as this to attend when your anxiety is already sky high. No matter how bad you think it will be, or how it really turns out, you will survive it. That`s what I tell myself in those ‘have to’ situations where I am pretty sure it is going to be a nightmare. I do hope you will be able to enjoy at least some of your daughters special day. Like Anne said, make sure to have lots of ‘outs’. I hope you got some good advice form your psychologist today. Let us know how you are doing. (((((Tony))))) Jackie ~*~Nature made us individuals, as she did the flowers and the pebbles; but we are afraid to be peculiar, and so our society resembles a bag of marbles, or a string of mold candles. Why should we all dress after the same fashion? The frost never paints my windows twice alike~*~     ~~ Lydia Maria Child — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My Daughter has been making wonderful progress planning her wedding ahead of time.  It looks like Friday Sept. 22 will be the wedding and reception. That is in 6 weeks. I’m a nervous wreck.  I keep worrying about passing out in church, but I did get word that there will not be a church service, just the marriage. Whooo Hooooo!!!!!! She also told me that she will tell the (catholic) priest that no way are they to get out that stinky incense.  That is a giant trigger for me. I’ll either be passed out or be running out the door! The anxiety is worse every day. I’m also having a problem coping with one part of the wedding.  She asked me how I felt about asking her stepfather to walk her down the isle with one of us on each side.  Then he would sit down and I would stay with her to give her away. She asked me how I would feel and I told her it will make me very uncomfortable, but it is *her* wedding.  So she asked him to do it anyway. Shit, why bother asking me at all? The other part that makes it all so difficult is my paranoia.  I have problems thinking people are talking about me.  So now having him in the wedding a little bit just makes me think of more stories people will tell. I guess I’m thinking they will say that I wasn’t a good father or something, I really don’t know.  All I know is that it is slightly different than the norm, so therefore it makes me more anxious/paranoid. Tomorrow, Friday 11th I will see both Dr. and psychologist so I hope I’ll get some good feedback that I can actually remember. It really sucks that what should be one of the happiest days of my life, (if it goes anything like the rest of my life), will be a LIVING HELL!!! Yes I know I’m projecting, but no one knows me like I do. I sure don’t want a repeat of my wedding/reception when my anxiety was so bad that I was VERY close to walking into a moving car just so I could get a ride to the hospital and away from the reception. I already know that all the pills in the world won’t fix things, I’ve tried taking more and then I just worry about being f’ed up. — Tony

Tony, I’m so sorry you’re having so much anxiety over this. This is the type of thing that would drive me nuts, too.  I have a little bit (ok, sometimes a lot) of the paranoia about people not liking me/talking about me too, so I understand where you’re coming from. It waxes and wanes with my anxiety, but it’s always there. Everything you posted hit a chord in me.  I know there’s nothing I can say to help, except to tell you you’re not alone. I care. I’ve never met you in person, but I can say without hesitation, after reading your posts and chatting with you on here for several years now (how long has it been?), you’re one of the nicest, funniest, most likeable people I’ve ever come in contact with.  One of the things I remind myself of when I’m feeling like everyone is focused on me is that everyone else is either a) worrying what I’m thinking of them or b) not thinking about anything but their own problems. I don’t know if that will help you, but I’m pretty sure it’s true based on my experiences with people. Please don’t hestitate to email me if you need to talk. Just because I’m melting down doesn’t mean I can’t help others–in fact, I’m better at helping others than myself.  I need a clone of myself to help me . ((((((((((((((((((Tony))))))))))))))))))) Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hey Tono — YOu are having massive anticipatory anxiety and dread…. One day at a time, OK?  Plan some "exit strategies" for yourself if you do get overwhelmed with anxiety during the wedding ceremony.  Your family will understand if you need to step outside and do some deep, slow breathing for a bit.  No one would criticize a diabetic who needs to get a glass of orange juice, quick, on short notice, right? Sorry about the part where you have to share walking-down-the-aisle duties with the stepfather. Try to focus on it being your daughter’s day, and maybe she feels happy about including both of you in that part.  My stepdaughter was vacillating about the same thing when she was preparing for her marriage 9 years ago. … Her stepfather had been in her life since she was 2.5 years old and she didn’t want to slight him.  Our mutual hair stylist told her, "You have A FATHER; he should be the one to walk you down the aisle!"  LOL — that woman doesn’t mince words. So that’s how it was.  But I think we would have understood if my stepdaughter had chosen another way, as well. Yes, it would have stung for my husband, but he would have survived and enjoyed the day, I think. Are there things you can get busy with at home to distract yourself now? Take care. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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My Daughter has been making wonderful progress planning her wedding ahead of time.  It looks like Friday Sept. 22 will be the wedding and reception. That is in 6 weeks.

Hi Tony, firstly congrats on your daughters wedding. I’m not up with all the news around the group lately so forgive me for not being up to date. I’m a nervous wreck.  I keep worrying about passing out in church, but I did get word that there will not be a church service, just the marriage. Whooo Hooooo!!!!!! She also told me that she will tell the (catholic) priest that no way are they to get out that stinky incense.  That is a giant trigger for me. I’ll either be passed out or be running out the door!

How fantastic for you that two of your main triggers won’t be present on the day. The anxiety is worse every day. I’m also having a problem coping with one part of the wedding.  She asked me how I felt about asking her stepfather to walk her down the isle with one of us on each side.  Then he would sit down and I would stay with her to give her away. She asked me how I would feel and I told her it will make me very uncomfortable, but it is *her* wedding.  So she asked him to do it anyway. Shit, why bother asking me at all?

The anticipatory anxiety is very normal as you would know for most normies let alone us anxious people. Sounds like your daughter is a real sweetie to ask how you felt. I think she was seeking some kind of validation from you even though she knew it will make you feel uncomfortable, the fact you didn’t tell her ‘no way’ is enough for her to feel less guilty about it. The other part that makes it all so difficult is my paranoia.  I have problems thinking people are talking about me.  So now having him in the wedding a little bit just makes me think of more stories people will tell. I guess I’m thinking they will say that I wasn’t a good father or something, I really don’t know.  All I know is that it is slightly different than the norm, so therefore it makes me more anxious/paranoid.

I can’t speak for others but if I saw a bride walking down the aisle with her father and step-father I’d be very impressed with all three people. I’d be thinking how lovely that a family can come together for such a wonderful day and what a special and selfless Dad to share this moment with someone else who has played a role in his daughter’s life. Tomorrow, Friday 11th I will see both Dr. and psychologist so I hope I’ll get some good feedback that I can actually remember.

Write down the main points, type them up here and we’ll keep reminding you. Plus you have heaps of us here to support you as we’ve been through similar big occasions and made it through ok. It really sucks that what should be one of the happiest days of my life, (if it goes anything like the rest of my life), will be a LIVING HELL!!! Yes I know I’m projecting, but no one knows me like I do.

Stinkin thinkin Tony – and very natural. The more important the day the more pressure we place on ourselves and this keeps feeding the fear, anxiety and paranoia. I know it won’t be easy but with a few little tricks and strategies we will get you through this special day. Don’t let the day overwhelm you. Break it down into small steps. I sure don’t want a repeat of my wedding/reception when my anxiety was so bad that I was VERY close to walking into a moving car just so I could get a ride to the hospital and away from the reception.

I actually remember this but it’s ancient history now. You’ve come a long way since then. I already know that all the pills in the world won’t fix things, I’ve tried taking more and then I just worry about being f’ed up.

Focus on the positives and keep yourself busy and distracted during the next 6 weeks so you don’t get yourself too overwhelmed. It’s an important day but it’s only a day. Think of how proud you’ll be of your little girl. Take care, Vanessa — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

My Daughter has been making wonderful progress planning her wedding ahead of time.  It looks like Friday Sept. 22 will be the wedding and reception.  That is in 6 weeks. I’m a nervous wreck.  I keep worrying about passing out in church, but I did get word that there will not be a church service, just the marriage.   Whooo Hooooo!!!!!! She also told me that she will tell the (catholic) priest that no way are they to get out that stinky incense.  That is a giant trigger for me.  I’ll either be passed out or be running out the door! The anxiety is worse every day.

(slightly snipped) {{{{{{ Tony }}}}}} Tony, you’re just experiencing anticipation anxiety that we all do.  The best thing I can suggest is to just try to sleep through these next 6 weeks, try to eat healthy meals and don’t do anything else that will stress you out.  Rest up for the big day and I know how scary it is. I can’t give you any advice other than what you already know; when the day is done, be proud that you did it, you withstood it, it was just one day and you didn’t die from it. Then the next day go hibernate in front of your computer or TV.  :~) kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

My Daughter has been making wonderful progress planning her wedding ahead of time.  It looks like Friday Sept. 22 will be the wedding and reception.  That is in 6 weeks. I’m a nervous wreck.  I keep worrying about passing out in church, but I did get word that there will not be a church service, just the marriage.   Whooo Hooooo!!!!!! She also told me that she will tell the (catholic) priest that no way are they to get out that stinky incense.  That is a giant trigger for me.  I’ll either be passed out or be running out the door! The anxiety is worse every day. I’m also having a problem coping with one part of the wedding.  She asked me how I felt about asking her stepfather to walk her down the isle with one of us on each side.  Then he would sit down and I would stay with her to give her away. She asked me how I would feel and I told her it will make me very uncomfortable, but it is *her* wedding.  So she asked him to do it anyway.  Shit, why bother asking me at all? The other part that makes it all so difficult is my paranoia.  I have problems thinking people are talking about me.  So now having him in the wedding a little bit just makes me think of more stories people will tell.  I guess I’m thinking they will say that I wasn’t a good father or something, I really don’t know.  All I know is that it is slightly different than the norm, so therefore it makes me more anxious/paranoid. Tomorrow, Friday 11th I will see both Dr. and psychologist so I hope I’ll get some good feedback that I can actually remember. It really sucks that what should be one of the happiest days of my life, (if it goes anything like the rest of my life), will be a LIVING HELL!!!   Yes I know I’m projecting, but no one knows me like I do. I sure don’t want a repeat of my wedding/reception when my anxiety was so bad that I was VERY close to walking into a moving car just so I could get a ride to the hospital and away from the reception. I already know that all the pills in the world won’t fix things, I’ve tried taking more and then I just worry about being f’ed up. — Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Gay Marriage Spreads Disease

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease. Then your version of reality is way off. In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "  In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease." Next?? RJ P Hopefully, your head-hunting ways and religious paranoia will lessen when people start realizing that the perverts are right inside the church, and adults who live as they want with other consenting adults isn’t, and never was, a problem at all. Next .. . In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "Hopefully, your head-hunting ways and religious paranoia will lessen when people start realizing that the perverts are right inside the church, and adults who live as they want with other consenting adults isn’t, and never was, a problem at all." " " " NEXT?? rj p

You hide beneath the vale of your sick religious beliefs. Thank God you’re a dying breed. Only your pedophiles spread disease.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease. Then your version of reality is way off. In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "  In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease." Next?? RJ P

Hopefully, your head-hunting ways and religious paranoia will lessen when people start realizing that the perverts are right inside the church, and adults who live as they want with other consenting adults isn’t, and never was, a problem at all. Next …

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   Except in places like North Carolina where it is a felony. Next …

For those who choose the back woods in which to live, then let it be so. I’m all for that.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease. Then your version of reality is way off. In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "  In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease." Next?? RJ P Hopefully, your head-hunting ways and religious paranoia will lessen when people start realizing that the perverts are right inside the church,

    Only til we find them and boot ‘em out. and adults who live as they want with other consenting adults isn’t, and never was, a problem at all.

    Except in places like North Carolina where it is a felony. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Next …

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease. Then your version of reality is way off. In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "  In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease." Next?? RJ P Hopefully, your head-hunting ways and religious paranoia will lessen when people start realizing that the perverts are right inside the church, and adults who live as they want with other consenting adults isn’t, and never was, a problem at all. Next .. . In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "Hopefully, your head-hunting ways and religious paranoia will lessen when people start realizing that the perverts are right inside the church, and adults who live as they want with other consenting adults isn’t, and never was, a problem at all." " " " NEXT?? rj p You hide beneath the vale of your sick religious beliefs. Thank God you’re a dying breed. Only your pedophiles spread disease.

Obviously you don’t GET it!! This wass a cascade to make fun of extremists. I don’t even know what your original point was, but maybe cascading is the only reasonable analysis of  the problems you think people have when they only  partially agree with some of the issues  you present It sounds like you have a collection of prepared cute pharses that you send to people who are willing to give some slack to religionists, provided they stay outta your bedroom and outta our laws. Completely demonizing the enemy and anyone agreeing with ANY of their positions is counterproductive , rhetorically, For your fucking information I happen to agree that religionists are a danger to democracy. but not they EXCLUSIVELY spread disease ( AIDS). Your naiveite in the distribution and causes of SIDA  (sic) is stunning. I might suggest you expand your research to venues beyond Jack Chick Comics. BTW PLONK!! Instead of a  return rave please look at www.subgenius.com And watch out for Cthulhu!! Pope Bobby II 69th Clench of the Stark Fist of Removal Reformed Church of the Subgenius — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease. Then your version of reality is way off. In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "  In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease." Next?? RJ P Hopefully, your head-hunting ways and religious paranoia will lessen when people start realizing that the perverts are right inside the church, and adults who live as they want with other consenting adults isn’t, and never was, a problem at all. Next .. . In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "Hopefully, your head-hunting ways and religious paranoia will lessen when people start realizing that the perverts are right inside the church, and adults who live as they want with other consenting adults isn’t, and never was, a problem at all." " " " NEXT?? rj p You hide beneath the vale of your sick religious beliefs. Thank God you’re a dying breed. Only your pedophiles spread disease. Obviously you don’t GET it!! This wass a cascade to make fun of extremists. I don’t even know what your original point was, but maybe cascading is the only reasonable analysis of  the problems you think people have when they only  partially agree with some of the issues  you present It sounds like you have a collection of prepared cute pharses that you send to people who are willing to give some slack to religionists, provided they stay outta your bedroom and outta our laws. Completely demonizing the enemy and anyone agreeing with ANY of their positions is counterproductive , rhetorically, For your fucking information I happen to agree that religionists are a danger to democracy. but not they EXCLUSIVELY spread disease ( AIDS). Your naiveite in the distribution and causes of SIDA  (sic) is stunning. I might suggest you expand your research to venues beyond Jack Chick Comics. BTW PLONK!!

Aren’t you the witty one … NOT! Lol! I don’t read comics, by the way. I’m talking about the title of the thread: Gay Marriage Spreads Disease …. Pure paranoia, that’s all. Next!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease. Then your version of reality is way off. In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "  In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease." Next?? RJ P Hopefully, your head-hunting ways and religious paranoia will lessen when people start realizing that the perverts are right inside the church, and adults who live as they want with other consenting adults isn’t, and never was, a problem at all. Next ..

. In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those  telling us "In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those  telling us "In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "Hopefully, your head-hunting ways and religious paranoia will lessen when  people start realizing that the perverts are right inside the church, and  adults who live as they want with other consenting adults isn’t, and never  was, a problem at all." " " " NEXT?? rj p — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease. Then your version of reality is way off. In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "  In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease." Next??

Yeah. How about them Trailblazers?

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In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease.

Then your version of reality is way off.

Response:

In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease. Then your version of reality is way off.

In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us "  In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease." Next?? RJ P — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

In reality, I think what actually spreads disease, are the words of those telling us what spreads disease.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip troll In Massachusetts where the dreadful social experiment of "gay" marriage has commenced, marriage is in a dire state. Divorce is at a disastrous rate. More marriages end in death in Massachusetts than in any other state. Wake up, Massachusetts, before it’s too late! <snip more troll     In case anyone is interested:     Massachusettes has the LOWEST rate of divorce of all the blue states. In fact, the lowest rates of divorce tend to be in the blue states with the *highest* divorce rates existing in red states (Kentucky, Mississippi, and Arkansas).     http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1279756/posts Read for comprehension next time. Yes, it was a troll, but it was a troll that *agrees* with you. ^_^    Pot. Kettle. Black.    Read what I wrote. All I did was provide some info, I didn’t claim anyone disagreed with me. Sorry, I’m just so sick of right wing posturing on the "values" issue when here in "eeeEEEEeeevil" Massachusetts, we have the lowest divorce rate! And a relatively low murder rate, the highest level of education, etc.    Thanks for the echo, Hypatia. Sheesh. — Darklady Ms. Oregon State Leather 2004 http://www.darklady.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dark-Lady http://www.livejournal.com/~darklady_produc http://www.masturbate-a-thon.org

Response:

Yes, Massachusetts has the lowest divorce rate in the country. The highest rate of divorce is found in the Bible belt states. In fact, an AP report stated shows that "the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average of 4.2 per thousand people. The 10 Southern states with some of the highest divorce rates were Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and Texas. By comparison, nine states in the Northeast were among those with the lowest divorce rates: Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont. The report also said this: Liberals from Massachusetts have long prided themselves on their emphasis on education, and it has paid off: People who stay in school longer get married at a later age, when they are more mature, are more likely to secure a better job, and job income increases with each level of formal education. As a result, Massachusetts also leads in per capita and family income while births by teenagers, as a percent of total births, was 7.4 for Massachusetts and 16.1 for Texas.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip troll In Massachusetts where the dreadful social experiment of "gay" marriage has commenced, marriage is in a dire state. Divorce is at a disastrous rate. More marriages end in death in Massachusetts than in any other state. Wake up, Massachusetts, before it’s too late! <snip more troll     In case anyone is interested:     Massachusettes has the LOWEST rate of divorce of all the blue states. In fact, the lowest rates of divorce tend to be in the blue states with the *highest* divorce rates existing in red states (Kentucky, Mississippi, and Arkansas).     http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1279756/posts Read for comprehension next time. Yes, it was a troll, but it was a troll that *agrees* with you. ^_^    Pot. Kettle. Black.    Read what I wrote. All I did was provide some info, I didn’t claim anyone disagreed with me. Sorry, I’m just so sick of right wing posturing on the "values" issue when here in "eeeEEEEeeevil" Massachusetts, we have the lowest divorce rate! And a relatively low murder rate, the highest level of education, etc.    Thanks for the echo, Hypatia. Sheesh. — Darklady Ms. Oregon State Leather 2004 http://www.darklady.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dark-Lady http://www.livejournal.com/~darklady_produc http://www.masturbate-a-thon.org

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip troll In Massachusetts where the dreadful social experiment of "gay" marriage has commenced, marriage is in a dire state. Divorce is at a disastrous rate. More marriages end in death in Massachusetts than in any other state. Wake up, Massachusetts, before it’s too late! <snip more troll     In case anyone is interested:     Massachusettes has the LOWEST rate of divorce of all the blue states. In fact, the lowest rates of divorce tend to be in the blue states with the *highest* divorce rates existing in red states (Kentucky, Mississippi, and Arkansas).     http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1279756/posts Read for comprehension next time. Yes, it was a troll, but it was a troll that *agrees* with you. ^_^

    Pot. Kettle. Black.     Read what I wrote. All I did was provide some info, I didn’t claim anyone disagreed with me. Sorry, I’m just so sick of right wing posturing on the "values" issue when here in "eeeEEEEeeevil" Massachusetts, we have the lowest divorce rate! And a relatively low murder rate, the highest level of education, etc.

    Thanks for the echo, Hypatia. Sheesh. — Darklady Ms. Oregon State Leather 2004 http://www.darklady.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dark-Lady http://www.livejournal.com/~darklady_produc http://www.masturbate-a-thon.org

Response:

Liberal homo activists pretend that gay marriage will stem the spread of disease like AIDS and Hepetitis. You misspelled your whole comment. Here, let me fix it for you: Asshole repugnicunts who have affairs and fuck whores think they’re immune to STD’s. Damn, you didn’t read to the end of my message either. And it was so short!

Sorry. I just saw the first sentence and didn’t even bother looking at the author’s name. And I should know better, too. And I’m such a fan of yours, too. 50 lashes with a wet noodle for me. Although, to be fair, I think a lot of right wing fundamentalists *do* worship Cthulhu.

Is that the three-headed dog or the fire breathing aardvark? Here’s a link you might enjoy (red state versus blue state): http://www.fuckthesouth.com/ Unless you live in the South, in which case, you have my sympathy.

I live on the West Coast (Portland, OR), so it’s all good. Again, my apologies.

Response:

Liberal homo activists pretend that gay marriage will stem the spread of disease like AIDS and Hepetitis. You misspelled your whole comment. Here, let me fix it for you: Asshole repugnicunts who have affairs and fuck whores think they’re immune to STD’s.

Damn, you didn’t read to the end of my message either. And it was so short! Although, to be fair, I think a lot of right wing fundamentalists *do* worship Cthulhu. Here’s a link you might enjoy (red state versus blue state): http://www.fuckthesouth.com/ Unless you live in the South, in which case, you have my sympathy. -Hypatia

Response:

HA HA HA!!! I like the last line: "It’s your Gawd-given right to marry underage prom queens–defend it!" You should write for Landover Baptist!

Thank you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Liberal homo activists pretend that gay marriage will stem the spread of disease like AIDS and Hepetitis. They are hiding you from the Truth–gay marriage spreads a disease far more pernicious than AIDS or influenza. No! Harken, "for those things written that shall come to pass" (Jeb 4:20). In Massachusetts where the dreadful social experiment of "gay" marriage has commenced, marriage is in a dire state. Divorce is at a disastrous rate. More marriages end in death in Massachusetts than in any other state. Wake up, Massachusetts, before it’s too late! Massachusetts is a writhing hotbed of papistry. Their unending marriages, overeducated, materialist kids, and blasphemous sacramentals are an offense to good Christians everywhere. Their embrace of "logic" created the loophole by which ungodly "gay" marriage became legitimized in the eyes of the people. For shame! By banning godly delights such as topless and nudie bars (of the sort we Georgians, Floridians, Alabamans, and other red-staters are accustomed to), men are forced "against their natural uses" (Corinthians) to join with their wives. The un-Christian Catholic doctrine holds that a divorcee cannot marry again–and the Jesus-hating Catholics of Massachusetts wish to bind us all into this same prison! Stop the spread of this "gay" disease! We know that "happy is he that puts away his wife to take another; happy she who has no husband." It’s your Gawd-given right to marry underage prom queens–defend it! Bless you in the name of Cthulhu!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip troll In Massachusetts where the dreadful social experiment of "gay" marriage has commenced, marriage is in a dire state. Divorce is at a disastrous rate. More marriages end in death in Massachusetts than in any other state. Wake up, Massachusetts, before it’s too late! <snip more troll     In case anyone is interested:     Massachusettes has the LOWEST rate of divorce of all the blue states. In fact, the lowest rates of divorce tend to be in the blue states with the *highest* divorce rates existing in red states (Kentucky, Mississippi, and Arkansas).     http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1279756/posts

Read for comprehension next time. Yes, it was a troll, but it was a troll that *agrees* with you. ^_^ Sorry, I’m just so sick of right wing posturing on the "values" issue when here in "eeeEEEEeeevil" Massachusetts, we have the lowest divorce rate! And a relatively low murder rate, the highest level of education, etc. *sigh* -Hypatia

Response:

HA HA HA!!! I like the last line: "It’s your Gawd-given right to marry underage prom queens–defend it!" You should write for Landover Baptist!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Liberal homo activists pretend that gay marriage will stem the spread of disease like AIDS and Hepetitis. They are hiding you from the Truth–gay marriage spreads a disease far more pernicious than AIDS or influenza. No! Harken, "for those things written that shall come to pass" (Jeb 4:20). In Massachusetts where the dreadful social experiment of "gay" marriage has commenced, marriage is in a dire state. Divorce is at a disastrous rate. More marriages end in death in Massachusetts than in any other state. Wake up, Massachusetts, before it’s too late! Massachusetts is a writhing hotbed of papistry. Their unending marriages, overeducated, materialist kids, and blasphemous sacramentals are an offense to good Christians everywhere. Their embrace of "logic" created the loophole by which ungodly "gay" marriage became legitimized in the eyes of the people. For shame! By banning godly delights such as topless and nudie bars (of the sort we Georgians, Floridians, Alabamans, and other red-staters are accustomed to), men are forced "against their natural uses" (Corinthians) to join with their wives. The un-Christian Catholic doctrine holds that a divorcee cannot marry again–and the Jesus-hating Catholics of Massachusetts wish to bind us all into this same prison! Stop the spread of this "gay" disease! We know that "happy is he that puts away his wife to take another; happy she who has no husband." It’s your Gawd-given right to marry underage prom queens–defend it! Bless you in the name of Cthulhu!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Liberal homo activists pretend that gay marriage will stem the spread of disease like AIDS and Hepetitis. Massachusetts is a writhing hotbed of papistry. Their unending marriages, overeducated, materialist kids, and blasphemous sacramentals are an offense to good Christians everywhere. By banning godly delights such as topless and nudie bars (of the sort we Georgians, Floridians, Alabamans, and other red-staters are accustomed to), men are forced "against their natural uses" (Corinthians) to join with their wives. Stop the spread of this "gay" disease! We know that "happy is he that puts away his wife to take another; happy she who has no husband."  true marital happiness is celibacy, praying to Jesus everyday, living in a monastery, living in very strict accordance to the rules of God and the Holy Spirit, all other lifestyles are sinful, this is the truth so help me Jeezus.

        And then pretend Jesus is helping me when He isn’t…. Paul

Response:

Liberal homo activists pretend that gay marriage will stem the spread of disease like AIDS and Hepetitis. Massachusetts is a writhing hotbed of papistry. Their unending marriages, overeducated, materialist kids, and blasphemous sacramentals are an offense to good Christians everywhere. By banning godly delights such as topless and nudie bars (of the sort we Georgians, Floridians, Alabamans, and other red-staters are accustomed to), men are forced "against their natural uses" (Corinthians) to join with their wives. Stop the spread of this "gay" disease! We know that "happy is he that puts away his wife to take another; happy she who has no husband."

 true marital happiness is celibacy, praying to Jesus everyday, living in a monastery, living in very strict accordance to the rules of God and the Holy Spirit, all other lifestyles are sinful, this is the truth so help me Jeezus.

Response:

In our last episode, the lovely and talented Chris broadcast on alt.politics.homosexuality: DANGER DO NOT FEED THE TROLL Liberal homo activists pretend that gay marriage will stem the spread of disease like AIDS and Hepetitis. Vast volume of absolute rot snipped DANGER DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

Too late.  It already hooked you.  Admit it.  You didn’t read the whole thing, did you? — It is the job of thinking people, not to be on the side of the executioners.                                - Albert Camus

Response:

<snip troll In Massachusetts where the dreadful social experiment of "gay" marriage has commenced, marriage is in a dire state. Divorce is at a disastrous rate. More marriages end in death in Massachusetts than in any other state. Wake up, Massachusetts, before it’s too late!

<snip more troll     In case anyone is interested:     Massachusettes has the LOWEST rate of divorce of all the blue states. In fact, the lowest rates of divorce tend to be in the blue states with the *highest* divorce rates existing in red states (Kentucky, Mississippi, and Arkansas).     http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1279756/posts — Darklady http://www.darklady.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dark-Lady http://www.livejournal.com/~darklady_produc http://www.masturbate-a-thon.org

Response:

Liberal homo activists pretend that gay marriage will stem the spread of disease like AIDS and Hepetitis.

You misspelled your whole comment. Here, let me fix it for you: Asshole repugnicunts who have affairs and fuck whores think they’re immune to STD’s.

Response:

DANGER DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

Liberal homo activists pretend that gay marriage will stem the spread of disease like AIDS and Hepetitis.

Vast volume of absolute rot snipped DANGER DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

Response:

Liberal homo activists pretend that gay marriage will stem the spread of disease like AIDS and Hepetitis. They are hiding you from the Truth–gay marriage spreads a disease far more pernicious than AIDS or influenza. No! Harken, "for those things written that shall come to pass" (Jeb 4:20). In Massachusetts where the dreadful social experiment of "gay" marriage has commenced, marriage is in a dire state. Divorce is at a disastrous rate. More marriages end in death in Massachusetts than in any other state. Wake up, Massachusetts, before it’s too late! Massachusetts is a writhing hotbed of papistry. Their unending marriages, overeducated, materialist kids, and blasphemous sacramentals are an offense to good Christians everywhere. Their embrace of "logic" created the loophole by which ungodly "gay" marriage became legitimized in the eyes of the people. For shame! By banning godly delights such as topless and nudie bars (of the sort we Georgians, Floridians, Alabamans, and other red-staters are accustomed to), men are forced "against their natural uses" (Corinthians) to join with their wives. The un-Christian Catholic doctrine holds that a divorcee cannot marry again–and the Jesus-hating Catholics of Massachusetts wish to bind us all into this same prison! Stop the spread of this "gay" disease! We know that "happy is he that puts away his wife to take another; happy she who has no husband." It’s your Gawd-given right to marry underage prom queens–defend it! Bless you in the name of Cthulhu!

Response:

Courtship

Question:

You will have to take time off work and go to the third world country and get to know the girl really well. If you don’t do it right, you will just end up with a gold digger. Another problem is that most of these guys are too young to marry. Also, if you bring an eighteen girl over she is young enough to adapt and become westernized. I know of one ugly Canadian philippino orderly who brings over hot russion girls on 3-month vacation visas and fucks the hell out of them and then dumps them. repeat.

Response:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:36:46 -0500, "Kitz_murdered_our_gallery" <kitz_lost_our_gall…@yahoo.com> wrote: >You will have to take time off work and go to the third world country and >get to know the girl really well. If you don’t do it right, you will just >end up with a gold digger. >Another problem is that most of these guys are too young to marry.

For christ’s sake,  I didn’t suggest they court a girl elsewhere and marry her. > Also, >if you bring an eighteen girl over she is young enough to adapt and become >westernized.

She will if you allow her to mix with westerners. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I know of one ugly Canadian philippino orderly who brings over hot russion >girls on 3-month vacation visas and fucks the hell out of them and then >dumps them. repeat.

Response:

>She will if you allow her to mix with westerners.

   Why have we allowed Western civilization to deteriorate so badly and why isn’t anyone doing anything to prevent it’s doom?    And what is it about women and money? They will do ANYTHING for it. I’ve seen several stories from England about women there who let groups of rich men humiliate them sexually in a torturous fashion and then sometimes these women have the nerve to run to the police and claim "it went too far"??     Why don’t women have any self respect??

Response:

On 21 Nov 2004 09:50:21 GMT, jimsummer…@aol.com (Jim Summers87) wrote: >>She will if you allow her to mix with westerners. >   Why have we allowed Western civilization to deteriorate so badly and why >isn’t anyone doing anything to prevent it’s doom? >   And what is it about women and money? They will do ANYTHING for it. I’ve >seen several stories from England about women there who let groups of rich men >humiliate them sexually in a torturous fashion and then sometimes these women >have the nerve to run to the police and claim "it went too far"?? >    Why don’t women have any self respect??

I suggested that shy men could import the same sort of women you condemn, moron.

Response:

On 21 Nov 2004 09:50:21 GMT, jimsummer…@aol.com (Jim Summers87) wrote: >>She will if you allow her to mix with westerners. >   Why have we allowed Western civilization to deteriorate so badly and why >isn’t anyone doing anything to prevent it’s doom? >   And what is it about women and money? They will do ANYTHING for it. I’ve >seen several stories from England about women there who let groups of rich men >humiliate them sexually in a torturous fashion and then sometimes these women >have the nerve to run to the police and claim "it went too far"?? >    Why don’t women have any self respect??

I suggested that shy men could import the same sort of women you condemn, moron. Those motivated by a bit of the old ultra-violence are even better.

Response:

>I suggested that shy men could import the same sort of women you >condemn, moron.

  Which women? Blacks? You call that an achievement? Anyone can SCREW them..

Response:

>I suggested that shy men could import the same sort of women you >condemn, moron. Those motivated by a bit of the old ultra-violence are >even better.

  Que???? No entiendo Senor

Response:

Jim Summers87 wrote: >> She will if you allow her to mix with westerners. > Why have we allowed Western civilization to deteriorate so badly and why > isn’t anyone doing anything to prevent it’s doom? > And what is it about women and money? They will do ANYTHING for it. I’ve > seen several stories from England about women there who let groups of rich men > humiliate them sexually in a torturous fashion and then sometimes these women > have the nerve to run to the police and claim "it went too far"?? > Why don’t women have any self respect??

We do. Which is probably why some men are whining so loudly.

Response:

Sklenge <skle…@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in news:BDE0D451.2EDE4%sklenge@yahoo.co.uk: >> And what is it about women and money? They will do ANYTHING for it.

Yeah, anything. Anything but actually work for it. LOLHAHAHA. I slay me. -phy

Response:

Most threads in this group are about difficulties in courting females. None ever questions if this is even necessary. Obviously, you give them power over you when you strive to attract them. Why not empower yourself by doing the choosing? Those who’re posting are relatively wealthy American caucasians. The world is your oyster, guys. People anywhere other than western europe will bow and scrape to you. Going for a short holiday isn’t the only option. You can smuggle in gorgeous young girls for your harem. Why torture yourself for the fat, vulgar sluts of your country? The cunts here would say that the above is for losers. What is there to lose, the fleeting affections of American women? Who needs them when one can have a couple of teen concubines who’ll suck dick on command? Is being suave (which I believe is the main stumbling block for the people here, not ugliness) the only acceptable way to get women?  Why the fuck should charm even matter to a man? As for the pussies who claim to be  looking for romance and affection, this doesn’t last long, tools. The divorce rate in your country is around 60% and most women’ve fucked half a dozen men before marrying. Something so transitory isn’t worth much. Romance benefits women more in that it binds a man to one woman while denying his instinct to fuck all the women he can get his hands on.

Response:

is conservative a better home for kids than liberal?

Question:

Telling someone they are against "family values" is not far from telling them they’re bad parents. Most liberal parents (like most conservatives) spend most of their days thinking not about politics but about how to raise good kids. It’s probably not worthwhile to try to figure out who is better at it but these statistics ought to at least pour cold water on conservative self righteousness on this point: of the 10 states with the highest divorce rates, ten of them voted for Bush. Of the 10 states with the lowest divorce rates, 9 of them voted for Kerry. And the state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation? Massachusetts.

Response:

Telling someone they are against "family values" is not far from telling them they’re bad parents. Most liberal parents (like most conservatives) spend most of their days thinking not about politics but about how to raise good kids. It’s probably not worthwhile to try to figure out who is better at it but these statistics ought to at least pour cold water on conservative self righteousness on this point: of the 10 states with the highest divorce rates, ten of them voted for Bush. Of the 10 states with the lowest divorce rates, 9 of them voted for Kerry. And the state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation? Massachusetts.

Probably staying together "for the kids sake"….who already KNOW there is a problem.

Response:

talk.politics

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Telling someone they are against "family values" is not far from telling them they’re bad parents. Most liberal parents (like most conservatives) spend most of their days thinking not about politics but about how to raise good kids. It’s probably not worthwhile to try to figure out who is better at it but these statistics ought to at least pour cold water on conservative self righteousness on this point: of the 10 states with the highest divorce rates, ten of them voted for Bush. Of the 10 states with the lowest divorce rates, 9 of them voted for Kerry. And the state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation? Massachusetts. Probably staying together "for the kids sake"….who already KNOW there is a problem.

Response:

talk.politics

Hey, asshole – who died and made *you* boss? No likee?  No clickee!  Rocket science, eh? Lord Valve Supreme Allied Commander, alt.guitar.amps

Response:

Telling someone they are against "family values" is not far from telling them they’re bad parents. Most liberal parents (like most conservatives) spend most of their days thinking not about politics but about how to raise good kids. It’s probably not worthwhile to try to figure out who is better at it but these statistics ought to at least pour cold water on conservative self righteousness on this point: of the 10 states with the highest divorce rates, ten of them voted for Bush. Of the 10 states with the lowest divorce rates, 9 of them voted for Kerry. And the state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation? Massachusetts.

Hi, I thought you don’t bring politics or your work into home. I don’t know what I am but my two kids turned out just fine. On honor roll all the way, one is MD one is PE now. Just dream kids. Tony

Response:

the lowest divorce rates, 9 of them voted for Kerry. And the state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation? Massachusetts.

It seems that you`ve drawn the conclusion that growing up in a liberal family results in less divorce. Without researching the participants you`ll never know. It`s very possible that those with a liberal upbringing live together in higher numbers RATHER than marrying. So you would have far fewer divorces, if per capita you had far fewer marriages. There are far more liberal couples like Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins, who raise a family without the benefit of marraige. The liberal press touts them as a picture postcard of what a relationship should be. If they split, another liberal couple that won`t affect the divorce figures! A liberal success! See ya, John

Response:

I don’t know what I am but my two kids turned out just fine. On honor roll all the way, one is MD one is PE now. Just dream kids.

Credit where it’s due. You did something right.

Response:

Telling someone they are against "family values" is not far from telling them they’re bad parents. Most liberal parents (like most conservatives) spend most of their days thinking not about politics but about how to raise good kids. It’s probably not worthwhile to try to figure out who is better at it but these statistics ought to at least pour cold water on conservative self righteousness on this point: of the 10 states with the highest divorce rates, ten of them voted for Bush. Of the 10 states with the lowest divorce rates, 9 of them voted for Kerry. And the state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation? Massachusetts. Hi, I thought you don’t bring politics or your work into home. I don’t know what I am but my two kids turned out just fine.

Doesn’t matter "what" you are… you did something right for your kids. On honor roll all the way, one is MD one is PE now. Just dream kids.

Congrats..! ! ! Tony

BTW..  if one of them turns out to be a raving Republican… who is to *blame*.. ? ? ?       (just kidding..! ! ! ) gtski

Response:

I thought you don’t bring politics or your work into home. I don’t know what I am but my two kids turned out just fine. On honor roll all the way, one is MD one is PE now. Just dream kids.

I think you were wise.  Values are sacrificially lived out toward children in moment-to-moment actionable life, not politicized into worldly matters about polarized struggles they are not ready take on, nor need to.

Response:

OT {Free Vs. Slave States}

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States > http://www.selekta.com/map.jpg

Response:

"Highly Annoyed Rodent of Unusual Size & Typing Ability" <zombiefreaksfromhellbo…@bushwhacked.org> wrote in news:Xns95A047F23B1C8fkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6: >> Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States >> http://www.selekta.com/map.jpg

I thought you left. Right? -phy

Response:

phy <phy…@yahoo.com> pulled the needle out his vein long enough to rant thusly: news:Xns95A068C567602phy00xyahoocom@216.168.3.44: > "Highly Annoyed Rodent of Unusual Size & Typing Ability" > <zombiefreaksfromhellbo…@bushwhacked.org> wrote in > news:Xns95A047F23B1C8fkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6: >>> Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States >>> http://www.selekta.com/map.jpg > I thought you left. Right? > -phy

Doesn’t mean I can’t be an irritant.

Response:

Highly Annoyed Rodent of Unusual Size & Typing Ability wrote: >>Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States >>http://www.selekta.com/map.jpg

Since you like rants, here’s one http://fuckthesouth.com -M

Response:

"Highly Annoyed Rodent of Unusual Size & Typing Ability" <zombiefreaksfromhellbo…@bushwhacked.org> wrote in message

news:Xns95A047F23B1C8fkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6… >> Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States >> http://www.selekta.com/map.jpg

And look what they’ve become since being freed…

Response:

On 13/11/04 11:57 pm, in article 2vnlatF2knla…@uni-berlin.de, "Darkfalz" <darkfalz.use…@gmail.com> wrote: > "Highly Annoyed Rodent of Unusual Size & Typing Ability" > <zombiefreaksfromhellbo…@bushwhacked.org> wrote in message > news:Xns95A047F23B1C8fkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6… >>> Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States >>> http://www.selekta.com/map.jpg > And look what they’ve become since being freed…

lol!

Response:

"audrey in velvet" <lindauermadn…@mydotcomaddress.com> wrote in message news:BDBC501D.7EE%lindauermadness@mydotcomaddress.com… > On 13/11/04 11:57 pm, in article 2vnlatF2knla…@uni-berlin.de, "Darkfalz" > <darkfalz.use…@gmail.com> wrote: >> "Highly Annoyed Rodent of Unusual Size & Typing Ability" >> <zombiefreaksfromhellbo…@bushwhacked.org> wrote in message >> news:Xns95A047F23B1C8fkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6… >>>> Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States >>>> http://www.selekta.com/map.jpg >> And look what they’ve become since being freed… > lol!

I think that in hindsight, freeing the slaves and giving women the vote were two of the biggest mistakes the US ever made. They should have just sent all the blacks back to Africa. I can’t imagine how horrid it must be to live in a Neighbourhood anywhere near blacks, with their crime and drugs and drinking and rap music and just BULLSHIT "culture". Not that whites are all perfect, but if you can’t see the difference then you’re blind. I’m so glad Bill Cosby is saying the stuff he is saying. Somebody had to.

Response:

>> Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States >> http://www.selekta.com/map.jpg

welcome back, darn what took you so long.

Response:

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:05:25 +0000, mickey wrote: > Since you like rants, here’s one > http://fuckthesouth.com

And another one: http://www.exile.ru/2004-November-13/moscow_babylon.html

Response:

Vladimir Sevdonim <sevdo…@yahoo.com> pulled the needle out his vein long enough to rant thusly: news:pan.2004.11.22.12.18.13.331327@yahoo.com: > On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:05:25 +0000, mickey wrote: >> Since you like rants, here’s one >> http://fuckthesouth.com > And another one: > http://www.exile.ru/2004-November-13/moscow_babylon.html

 "Can you guess? It

what makes christian extremists different than islamic extremists

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What makes christian fundamentalist extremists different than islamic fundamentalist extremists? I am concerned that crimes against gays and  doctors might start increasing again. Don’t you mean HYPOCRITICAL FALSE Christian fundamentalist extremists, for TRUE followers of Christ, are NON-VIOLENT. cont By the way, now that gay marriage has been defeated in some places, lets watch the divorce rate go way down, shall we. " Sarcasm noted. It is true that modern false hypocritical Christianity despises gays for simply being gay and has NO compassion or understanding for them and their plight. Now it is also true that many gays are outright evil, sexually promiscuous, and are consumed with their sexual appetites, while others are simply people who fall in love with a member of their own gender and simply want to have the same LEGAL rights as married couples, which they actually deserve. However, Christians who are shallow, superficial and pretentious read the Bible in the same manner, using scripture to excuse their bigotry, instead of LOVING, having compassion, understanding and MERCY in regards to their neighbor as it was commanded in the gospels. They want to pretend that God allows them to engage in lustful sex for pleasure as often as that lust demon tempts them, because they are married, while IGNORING the fact that Christ, whom they are supposed to follow and LIVE as He lived, never married, nor engaged in sex of any kind. But they want a double standard for themselves, sacrificing nothing, while demanding that others sacrifice their romantic interests, which is NOT Godly, by any means. It’s funny how they should KNOW that the love of money is the ROOT of ALL EVIL, and even though GREED and this capitalistic system which is the pinnacle of the ROOT OF ALL EVIL, they say NOTHING about it, but get up on their high horses and scream about homosexuals, as if their marrying was a greater evil. Do you know why this is? Because they are not burdened with being homosexuals, so they can point fingers and condemn easily, but when it comes to their own sins of indulging in greed, and capitalism the greatest evil, they are mute, because they would be condemning their own guilt, which they are NOT willing to face the sins in themselves. However, what is really peculiar, the ones who scream the most about gays are they themselves enjoying marriage and lustful sex at will, while denying the exact same thing in gays, and pretending GOD ALLOWS THEM, which is a complete and utter lie, but when confronted with that truth, they are the first to holler and defend themselves and their earthly lifestyles. They just want to engage in sin as much as they want and still pretend they will be saved. Well, they will find out the hard way, when some gays, who actually DO what the gospels state, get into heaven and they never do. What makes christian fundamentalist extremists different than islamic fundamentalist extremists? I am concerned that crimes against gays and  doctors might start increasing again. By the way, now that gay marriage has been defeated in some places, lets watch the divorce rate go way down, shall we.

Seems to be a lot more of these: HYPOCRITICAL FALSE Christian fundamentalist extremists Why aren’t REAL Christians rasing their voices against: "HYPOCRITICAL FALSE Christian fundamentalist extremists"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What makes christian fundamentalist extremists different than islamic fundamentalist extremists? I am concerned that crimes against gays and  doctors might start increasing again. By the way, now that gay marriage has been defeated in some places, lets watch the divorce rate go way down, shall we. Amoral liberals never understand that the "threat" to marriage doesn’t involve divorce – gay marriage would turn a sacred bond between a man and woman into the moral equivalent of two guys sucking each other’s dicks and fucking each other up the ass.  Nice.

Only in your psychotic, homophobic, deranged fantasies …. but not in the real world!

Response:

What makes christian fundamentalist extremists different than islamic fundamentalist extremists? I am concerned that crimes against gays and  doctors might start increasing again. By the way, now that gay marriage has been defeated in some places, lets watch the divorce rate go way down, shall we.

One of the ways to tell the differnce, is that Christian extremists manage to kill a 100,000 innocent Iraqis, and think they did the world a favour. They gun down a carload of women and kids and say they didn’t stop. Then they think Iraqis should turn around and love them for it.

Response:

What makes christian fundamentalist extremists different than islamic fundamentalist extremists? I am concerned that crimes against gays and  doctors might start increasing again.

Don’t you mean HYPOCRITICAL FALSE Christian fundamentalist extremists, for TRUE followers of Christ, are NON-VIOLENT. cont By the way, now that gay marriage has been defeated in some places, lets watch the divorce rate go way down, shall we.

" Sarcasm noted. It is true that modern false hypocritical Christianity despises gays for simply being gay and has NO compassion or understanding for them and their plight. Now it is also true that many gays are outright evil, sexually promiscuous, and are consumed with their sexual appetites, while others are simply people who fall in love with a member of their own gender and simply want to have the same LEGAL rights as married couples, which they actually deserve. However, Christians who are shallow, superficial and pretentious read the Bible in the same manner, using scripture to excuse their bigotry, instead of LOVING, having compassion, understanding and MERCY in regards to their neighbor as it was commanded in the gospels. They want to pretend that God allows them to engage in lustful sex for pleasure as often as that lust demon tempts them, because they are married, while IGNORING the fact that Christ, whom they are supposed to follow and LIVE as He lived, never married, nor engaged in sex of any kind. But they want a double standard for themselves, sacrificing nothing, while demanding that others sacrifice their romantic interests, which is NOT Godly, by any means. It’s funny how they should KNOW that the love of money is the ROOT of ALL EVIL, and even though GREED and this capitalistic system which is the pinnacle of the ROOT OF ALL EVIL, they say NOTHING about it, but get up on their high horses and scream about homosexuals, as if their marrying was a greater evil. Do you know why this is? Because they are not burdened with being homosexuals, so they can point fingers and condemn easily, but when it comes to their own sins of indulging in greed, and capitalism the greatest evil, they are mute, because they would be condemning their own guilt, which they are NOT willing to face the sins in themselves. However, what is really peculiar, the ones who scream the most about gays are they themselves enjoying marriage and lustful sex at will, while denying the exact same thing in gays, and pretending GOD ALLOWS THEM, which is a complete and utter lie, but when confronted with that truth, they are the first to holler and defend themselves and their earthly lifestyles. They just want to engage in sin as much as they want and still pretend they will be saved. Well, they will find out the hard way, when some gays, who actually DO what the gospels state, get into heaven and they never do. — Dore www.dorewilliamson.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What makes christian fundamentalist extremists different than islamic fundamentalist extremists? I am concerned that crimes against gays and  doctors might start increasing again. By the way, now that gay marriage has been defeated in some places, lets watch the divorce rate go way down, shall we.

Response:

What makes christian fundamentalist extremists different than islamic fundamentalist extremists? I am concerned that crimes against gays and  doctors might start increasing again. By the way, now that gay marriage has been defeated in some places, lets watch the divorce rate go way down, shall we.]

 "What makes christian fundamentalist extremists different than islamic fundamentalist extremists?" Ans: The kind of hat they wear.

Response:

What makes christian fundamentalist extremists different than islamic fundamentalist extremists?

Christian extremists are more violent and ugly. I am concerned that crimes against gays and  doctors might start increasing again.

I guarantee that crimes against gays and  doctors will start increasing again. By the way, now that gay marriage has been defeated in some places, lets watch the divorce rate go way down, shall we.

Shall we let’s. -Bob  (Embarrassed to be an American)

Response:

What makes christian fundamentalist extremists different than islamic fundamentalist extremists? I am concerned that crimes against gays and  doctors might start increasing again. By the way, now that gay marriage has been defeated in some places, lets watch the divorce rate go way down, shall we.

Amoral liberals never understand that the "threat" to marriage doesn’t involve divorce – gay marriage would turn a sacred bond between a man and woman into the moral equivalent of two guys sucking each other’s dicks and fucking each other up the ass.  Nice.

Response:

What makes christian fundamentalist extremists different than islamic fundamentalist extremists? I am concerned that crimes against gays and  doctors might start increasing again. By the way, now that gay marriage has been defeated in some places, lets watch the divorce rate go way down, shall we.

Response: