Didn't expect this to hit me so hard…

Question:

My ex just e-mailed me last night to tell me "it’s official": "I just thought that I would let you know that [we] are now officially engaged. The date has not been set, but we are looking at October 23rd weekend as the likely target." He sends me blurbs like this about himself and his health because our son got really bunched up back last August about them dating and me not knowing and our son was worried about my finding out. My ex e-mailed me that our son brought this up to the therapist. At that time I told my ex if he had just told me about his dating this woman, our son wouldn’t have agonized and worried about my finding out because I already would have known (and, in fact, I had guessed based on things our son had let slip anyway). So, to not put such pressure on our son, my ex now tells me these things as a matter of course. Now, I’ve known about this October thing since before spring break, he told me during a state-of-things-with-our-son meeting we had. I’ve mentioned it on more than one occasion here. But it still hit me like a ton of bricks emotionally. I’m not sure what I’m looking for in terms of responses (probably "there, there, poor baby" but more than likely probably needing a kick in the posterior to "snap out of it!"). I think I’m just looking for some support in what I didn’t expect to be a difficult time. Thanks as always. — Barbara Sz.

Response:

Barbara said… My ex just e-mailed me last night to tell me "it’s official": "I just thought that I would let you know that [we] are now officially engaged. The date has not been set, but we are looking at October 23rd weekend as the likely target."               :   Now, I’ve known about this October thing since before spring break, he told me during a state-of-things-with-our-son meeting we had. I’ve mentioned it on more than one occasion here. But it still hit me like a ton of bricks emotionally. I’m not sure what I’m looking for in terms of responses (probably "there, there, poor baby" but more than likely probably needing a kick in the posterior to "snap out of it!"). I think I’m just looking for some support in what I didn’t expect to be a difficult time. Thanks as always. — Barbara Sz.

There, there, poor… no, I think "snap out of it" might be the better approach. No matter how much you think you’re prepared for something, you’re never emotionally immune to the reality of getting hit between the eyes with it as a concrete fact. For months I wanted to close out my marriage, get my ex out of my sight and my house, and start to move on with my life.  Her antics in that last year just about did me in.  She moved out the day after Christmas and in many ways I felt like a huge weight had been lifted.  My biggest fear toward the end and before she signed the settlement agreement was that she would try to back out or postpone it – I knew I could never get over everything that she had done. A few weeks later, I got the final decree (signed by the judge) in the mail.  It was a shock to read that I was no longer married.  I remember a few moments of sheer panic realizing that it was truly over and there was nothing I could do about it.  For what seemed like an eternity, I just stood there holding the document and staring at it like it was some cruel joke. All I’m trying to say is that what you’re feeling is more normal than you probably think.  I’m sure that doesn’t make you feel any better, but don’t spend time wondering why you feel the way you do right now.   You just do. If there’s any way you can do this, use the announcement as the final "boost" you need to "close out" your previous marriage in your mind.   Although you’ve been divorced for a while, you’ve probably had more contact with your ex than most freshly divorced people do, which makes it harder for you to emotionally really begin to move on. Casey

Response:

Brad Bishop said… For months I wanted to close out my marriage, get my ex out of my sight and my house, and start to move on with my life.  Her antics in that last year just about did me in.  She moved out the day after Christmas and in many ways I felt like a huge weight had been lifted.  My biggest fear toward the end and before she signed the settlement agreement was that she would try to back out or postpone it – I knew I could never get over everything that she had done. I’ve had this very same fear.

I had realized that the worst thing that could happen was for her to decide she wanted to stay – then I’d either have to drag her through a contentious divorce and while appearing to be the villain, or be stuck in a marriage with a wife I wanted nothing to do with after her "adventures" around town for the previous year and a half. I haven’t even really begun the process with her (she filed back on January 8th but she doesn’t seem to want to do anything beyond that – I’ve mentioned this before – I don’t get it) but I’d like it to just be over with. I’ve been told that the final "you’re divorced" document will hit me. I’d like to think it won’t (probably like everyone else.

Well, it will probably ‘hit you’ to some degree, but the feelings will pass as well.  I wrote about how mine affected me, but all those feelings were of a short duration.   Later that night I was fine and hanging out with some friends at the local watering hole.  I quietly told a couple of them and they congratulated me.   I was surprised at the intensity of the feelings when I opened the mail, but I put the documents down and went about the rest of my life. Casey

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Barbara said… My ex just e-mailed me last night to tell me "it’s official": "I just thought that I would let you know that [we] are now officially engaged. The date has not been set, but we are looking at October 23rd weekend as the likely target."               :   Now, I’ve known about this October thing since before spring break, he told me during a state-of-things-with-our-son meeting we had. I’ve mentioned it on more than one occasion here. But it still hit me like a ton of bricks emotionally. I’m not sure what I’m looking for in terms of responses (probably "there, there, poor baby" but more than likely probably needing a kick in the posterior to "snap out of it!"). I think I’m just looking for some support in what I didn’t expect to be a difficult time. Thanks as always. — Barbara Sz. There, there, poor… no, I think "snap out of it" might be the better approach.

See, I knew what I needed. <snip If there’s any way you can do this, use the announcement as the final "boost" you need to "close out" your previous marriage in your mind.   Although you’ve been divorced for a while, you’ve probably had more contact with your ex than most freshly divorced people do, which makes it harder for you to emotionally really begin to move on.

Well, with a teenager going back and forth between us at least twice a week plus the usual notification of stuff in said teenager’s life, it’s kind of given that I’m having a lot of contact. I don’t know how to have less contact. Also, because there wasn’t a lot of hostility involved, there wasn’t that natural aversion to contact. The marriage in my mind has been "closed out" for some time. I don’t like the guy, he’s not my friend. I don’t look to him for advice, I have told him that his opinion of my appearance ("you look nice") is not welcome, I try not to chitchat with him about anything other than our son and issues that may have impact on our son (major health issues with my family, for example). But that’s about it. I have not mentioned to him that I’m going to a divorce support group every 1st and 3rd Tuesday. I have not told him nor our son that I’m seeing a therapist. However he felt compelled to email me that he and the gf are going to spend a week in the hill country while our son is away at Scout summer camp. Why I needed to know that, I have no idea, unless he was fishing for an offer to take care of the cat, dog, house, newspaper, mail, which will not be forthcoming I can assure you. Mentally, it’s closed, over and out. Emotionally, I guess, I’m still adrift somewhere between what was and what’s to come. I sure as heck don’t want to be floating around in this state for the rest of my life, but I don’t know what I do want the rest of my life to be like yet. Or even how to get to somewhere else. Thanks for the response, you know I do appreciate it. — Barbara Sz.

Response:

terms of responses (probably "there, there, poor baby" but more than likely probably needing a kick in the posterior to "snap out of it!"). I think I’m just looking for some support in what I didn’t expect to be a difficult time. Thanks as always. — Barbara Sz.

There, there….poor baby.  ((((Barbara)))) Now for the good stuff.  :)  My ex and I were divorced for a little longer than you have been when I found out he was getting remarried. He didn’t have the balls to tell me; my girlfriend spilled the beans while we were at a basketball game (she thought that I already knew). I was stunned and yes, embarrassed.  When the Happy Day finally arrived, I felt upset…."why does he have someone and I don’t", etc. I’m sitting in my peaceful, comfortable home.  Both of our kids now live with me, full time.  He’s dealing with her 3 kids (2 are ADD), the screaming and the blaring TV,  her cats that pee all over the house, and her 3 dogs pooping in his yard, which is hard-packed dirt because of the dogs. My kids and I enjoy walking barefoot on our poop-free yard, when we’re not sitting in the quiet living room doing homework or reading the paper.  :) Lauri in WA, wishing you some karmic peace I like my email spamless

Response:

Lauri said… I’m sitting in my peaceful, comfortable home.  Both of our kids now live with me, full time.  He’s dealing with her 3 kids (2 are ADD), the screaming and the blaring TV,  her cats that pee all over the house, and her 3 dogs pooping in his yard, which is hard-packed dirt because of the dogs. What the hell was this guy thinking?  I know that different people like different things, but it would take a lot of "marketing" to make his current situation sound like a wonderful new life.  He got one woman – plus 3 kids, some cats, and 3 dogs to boot.  Maybe it seemed like a good buy one, get 8 or so free type deal.

I have no idea.  She must have some pretty special traits to make all the baggage worthwhile.  For what it’s worth, both of my kids like her and she’s been kind to them.  I think that, all said, the kids are just kids who have been raised differently than I’ve raised mine.  I think the last straw for my older boy was when one of the cats peed in the XBox that he co-owns with his brother.  The boys had to buy a new XBox, and it stays at my house full-time now. Personally, I’d have to be pretty damned loney before I’d take in three screaming teen/preteens, 3 dogs, and a bunch of cats which aren’t house trained. Lauri in WA I like my email spamless

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I heard the same news recently.  My ex is doing it on Halloween, though (he’s a Druid, don’tcha know).  He told me when I called him to tell him our daughter’s psychologist’s phone number. I can imagine what it was like to hear it, whether you saw it coming or not. Even though my ex and I don’t have the greatest relationship, it took me by surprise to find out. — Krista Young Devoted wife, loving mother – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My ex just e-mailed me last night to tell me "it’s official": "I just thought that I would let you know that [we] are now officially engaged. The date has not been set, but we are looking at October 23rd weekend as the likely target." He sends me blurbs like this about himself and his health because our son got really bunched up back last August about them dating and me not knowing and our son was worried about my finding out. My ex e-mailed me that our son brought this up to the therapist. At that time I told my ex if he had just told me about his dating this woman, our son wouldn’t have agonized and worried about my finding out because I already would have known (and, in fact, I had guessed based on things our son had let slip anyway). So, to not put such pressure on our son, my ex now tells me these things as a matter of course. Now, I’ve known about this October thing since before spring break, he told me during a state-of-things-with-our-son meeting we had. I’ve mentioned it on more than one occasion here. But it still hit me like a ton of bricks emotionally. I’m not sure what I’m looking for in terms of responses (probably "there, there, poor baby" but more than likely probably needing a kick in the posterior to "snap out of it!"). I think I’m just looking for some support in what I didn’t expect to be a difficult time. Thanks as always. — Barbara Sz.

Response:

Barbara said… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There, there, poor… no, I think "snap out of it" might be the better approach. See, I knew what I needed. If there’s any way you can do this, use the announcement as the final "boost" you need to "close out" your previous marriage in your mind.   Although you’ve been divorced for a while, you’ve probably had more contact with your ex than most freshly divorced people do, which makes it harder for you to emotionally really begin to move on. Well, with a teenager going back and forth between us at least twice a week plus the usual notification of stuff in said teenager’s life, it’s kind of given that I’m having a lot of contact. I don’t know how to have less contact. Also, because there wasn’t a lot of hostility involved, there wasn’t that natural aversion to contact.

I have a teenager going back and forth… well, only very occasionally.   I have very little contact with her.  Until this week, she picked him up from my house twice a week and took him to school.  I did the other mornings and picked him up every day after school.  He eats dinner with her once a week.  He has a cell phone and she can call him any time.   Other than that, there’s not much reason for me to talk to her.  I prefer it that way.  He’s happier when the two of us keep our distance. Mentally, it’s closed, over and out. Emotionally, I guess, I’m still adrift somewhere between what was and what’s to come. I sure as heck don’t want to be floating around in this state for the rest of my life, but I don’t know what I do want the rest of my life to be like yet. Or even how to get to somewhere else. Thanks for the response, you know I do appreciate it. — Barbara Sz.

Yeah, well, some people claim they appreciate root canals, too.  :-) Adrift seems like a good term for where you are now.  You won’t float around forever – I spent a few months somewhat like that myself, but I happened to meet a woman from Texas that reeled me in for a while.   That just happened in my case without any planning or effort.   Otherwise I may have drifted around for quite some time.  I don’t know if you should actively try to get somewhere else… just try to make the most of where you are for a while. This time around I didn’t feel the way I did before.  I’ve somehow been firmly rooted and content in my single life and who I am.  I think the emotional distance from my previous marriage has helped a lot.  It’s a memory from the past now. However, I don’t seem to be quite as single at the moment as I was a few months ago.  Right now, that doesn’t seem so bad either. Casey

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Lauri said… I’m sitting in my peaceful, comfortable home.  Both of our kids now live with me, full time.  He’s dealing with her 3 kids (2 are ADD), the screaming and the blaring TV,  her cats that pee all over the house, and her 3 dogs pooping in his yard, which is hard-packed dirt because of the dogs.

What the hell was this guy thinking?  I know that different people like different things, but it would take a lot of "marketing" to make his current situation sound like a wonderful new life.  He got one woman – plus 3 kids, some cats, and 3 dogs to boot.  Maybe it seemed like a good buy one, get 8 or so free type deal. Casey

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Dear Donna, Ouch indeed. I’m not *quite* old enough to be this girl’s mother. And if they get married in my old church (hard to believe they would having made vows with others in front of the same altar, but who knows), everyone would know better pretty much. Unfortunately or fortunately for me, I’m a core dump sort of person — gone is gone — and therefore have the tendency to excise and repudiate the last 20 years of my life, good, bad or indifferent, as one big "oh well". For me, the end negated the means, I guess. So I don’t really think about or remember much of anything with any kind of "good" or warm and fuzzy feeling (and don’t everyone jump on me about our son being "good", of course he is and I didn’t mean him). However it is true that it would be so much easier to disengage if it weren’t for the fact of our son. But that’s not his fault and I work very hard to make everything "good" for him as much as I can. Don’t really have too much control over his dad’s remarrying, though. Or their likely reproducing. Both of which will put our son distinctly out of the center of attention I’m sure. All I can do is keep him the center of mine and hope that’s enough. — Barbara Sz. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Barb, it will be hard – you just have to take each day as it comes. Disengagement is not easy. Work at it each day and remember the good times. I had the misfortune of working downtown in a bank when my first husband left me to marry someone else. Customers who had attended the wedding came in and told me how beautiful the wedding was and how beautiful my daughter looked, as she walked down the aisle. OUCH. Here’s hoping your circumstances may not involve such insensitivity. Best, Donna

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I haven’t even really begun the process with her (she filed back on January 8th but she doesn’t seem to want to do anything beyond that – I’ve mentioned this before – I don’t get it) but I’d like it to just be over with. I’ve been told that the final "you’re divorced" document will hit me. I’d like to think it won’t (probably like everyone else.

Maybe it won’t, Brad.  It didn’t hit me that way, but I felt emotionally separated from him before it was final.  What did kind of hit me hard was his re-marriage; before that, I’d known intellectually that it was over.  His remarraige meant that it was truly, finally, permanently over.  That was somehow different for me, and I did mourn for awhile over that. Lauri in WA I like my email spamless

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Hey, I have no platitudes to offer other than to say……it all just sucks. I don’t know that all of it ever really leaves. So, I can’t say that I blame you for the shock reaction but I bet it leaves quickly. Just take it easy and don’t be so hard on yourself. It ain’t ever easy! Denise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My ex just e-mailed me last night to tell me "it’s official": "I just thought that I would let you know that [we] are now officially engaged. The date has not been set, but we are looking at October 23rd weekend as the likely target." He sends me blurbs like this about himself and his health because our son got really bunched up back last August about them dating and me not knowing and our son was worried about my finding out. My ex e-mailed me that our son brought this up to the therapist. At that time I told my ex if he had just told me about his dating this woman, our son wouldn’t have agonized and worried about my finding out because I already would have known (and, in fact, I had guessed based on things our son had let slip anyway). So, to not put such pressure on our son, my ex now tells me these things as a matter of course. Now, I’ve known about this October thing since before spring break, he told me during a state-of-things-with-our-son meeting we had. I’ve mentioned it on more than one occasion here. But it still hit me like a ton of bricks emotionally. I’m not sure what I’m looking for in terms of responses (probably "there, there, poor baby" but more than likely probably needing a kick in the posterior to "snap out of it!"). I think I’m just looking for some support in what I didn’t expect to be a difficult time. Thanks as always. — Barbara Sz.

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See, I think I was still numb when the papers came last spring. I didn’t feel anything. I think I’m finally feeling all the stuff I was "supposed" to feel last year. I’ve always been a delayed developmental sort of person — I changed my major the spring of my senior year in college and tacked on 3 more semesters to my college experience in order to complete the new requirements. — Barbara Sz. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For months I wanted to close out my marriage, get my ex out of my sight and my house, and start to move on with my life.  Her antics in that last year just about did me in.  She moved out the day after Christmas and in many ways I felt like a huge weight had been lifted.  My biggest fear toward the end and before she signed the settlement agreement was that she would try to back out or postpone it – I knew I could never get over everything that she had done. I’ve had this very same fear. I haven’t even really begun the process with her (she filed back on January 8th but she doesn’t seem to want to do anything beyond that – I’ve mentioned this before – I don’t get it) but I’d like it to just be over with. I’ve been told that the final "you’re divorced" document will hit me. I’d like to think it won’t (probably like everyone else. Brad

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Barb, it will be hard – you just have to take each day as it comes. Disengagement is not easy. Work at it each day and remember the good times. I had the misfortune of working downtown in a bank when my first husband left me to marry someone else. Customers who had attended the wedding came in and told me how beautiful the wedding was and how beautiful my daughter looked, as she walked down the aisle. OUCH. Here’s hoping your circumstances may not involve such insensitivity. Best, Donna

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Taking Baggage Into Your Next Relationship

Question:

Lauri said… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For a while I thought she was having a nice time but a bit detached and aloof.  It took me a while to realize she had some big issues with trust and was keeping some distance in self-defense.  Ironically, that fear affected her enough to where I was about to decide that she wasn’t very warm or touchy-feely and maybe not who I wanted to be with.  But I kept seeing glimpses of her innner self that just seemed to say the opposite. This is a perfect example of how our fears can lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy coming true.  She’s afraid you’re going to leave, so she holds back from you emotionally, which leads you to believe that she’s not a warm person, which leads you to…… ……leave.

I bet it happens a lot.   We had a good talk a couple of weeks ago.  I told her it seemed like she was just waiting for something to go wrong and assuming it would.   She said that’s pretty much how she’s felt because things have always gone in the past. How many of us set our lives up that way without ever know it, I wonder.

Yeah, I wonder too. Casey

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Hi Karen – I have experienced this almost to the letter.  And yes, it can go away – slowly but surely.  It did for me… this link is to a post I made in Augsut 2001: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=b002… That was about 3 months after I started seeing the man who is now my fiance.  :)  I won’t tell you it was smooth all the way, or that this relationship you’re in now will work out, because I don’t know those things.  But it can, and over time that awful fear that it will all happen again will start to fade.  My fiance had to be incredibly supportive and patient… he had to be able to understand that my insecurities weren’t about him and didn’t reflect on my level of trust in him. Can you talk to your boyfriend about these things?  Open communication helped us so much – that I could go to him and tell him what I was feeling and why.  It took time and work but now I can honestly say that fear is 99.9% gone and still receding.  :) Best of luck to you – feel free to reply on the ng or to my email address if I can help. Michelle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey All, Had an interesting thought this morning.  Prior to my divorce, in all of my relationships, I don’t recall being insecure.  I trusted my significant other and my x husband and never considered that they might leave me, cheat or whatever.  Either that makes me incredibly stupid, trusting, both or maybe they really meant it.  Either way, now in a new relationship, with a wonderful man, I find I am insecure.  Being as I’ve never felt this way before its very unfamiliar.  I can only assume I feel this way as a result of my divorce. I trust my boyfriend 100% about being faithful.  Its the idea that suddenly he will just grow tired of me and say ’see ya Karen.’ quite out of the blue that freaks me out.  Thats what my x did.  Out of the clear blue sky decided he wanted a divorce.  Very little warning when everything seemed fine.  I guess thats what I’m worried will happen again. Anyone else experience this and please tell me the feeling went away.  Its not a good feeling to feel insecure.  I don’t like it at all.  :-( Peace Karen

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Thanks, Casey, I needed that! donna

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I have talked to him about it.  Hes great about everything.  He knows all about my history and understands that I’m still hurting.  He thought I was an emotionally closed book when we first started dating and I was.  My guard was way up.  Four months later its down and things are really great.  He’s a great guy, totally trustworthy and I like him a lot. Peace Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you talk to your boyfriend about these things?  Open communication helped us so much – that I could go to him and tell him what I was feeling and why.  It took time and work but now I can honestly say that fear is 99.9% gone and still receding.  :) Best of luck to you – feel free to reply on the ng or to my email address if I can help. Michelle

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Been seperated since October, divorced since January so yeah…I’d say. Say, didn’t you very recently got divorced?

your friends to keep you warm.

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<snip He thought I was an emotionally closed book when we first started dating and I was.  My guard was way up.  Four months later its down and things are really great.  He’s a great guy, totally trustworthy and I like him a lot.

Permit me to interject here that, even though I’ve remarried, I do remember times in my divorce-support group when others would grouse about not being able to trust others.  I remember thinking, "What are these people talking about?  I don’t even have anyone with whom I could have a trust issue.  It would be nice if could get there someday." Later, as I started my adventures in dating, it became apparent to me that this issue was more about trusting my own instincts, as it was about others.  I started thinking, "If I could be so wrong about my choice in a mate, how could I possibly have faith in any decision I made about my future.  It just took a butt-load of time to develop confidence in my own judgment. [Rog']

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that freaks me out.  Thats what my x did.  Out of the clear blue sky decided he wanted a divorce.  Very little warning when everything seemed fine.  I guess thats what I’m worried will happen again.

Welcome to the club!  All of our friends were shocked and so was I.  We both have new lives.  I still love him and miss him, but I don’t want him back. It helps me a lot to focus on today and the here and now.  <sigh  I still get nostelgic and it still hurts.  Maybe I need to change my attitude and learn to hate him?  After all, what his actions deserve it. Regards, Gunn

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Gunnloth said… Welcome to the club!  All of our friends were shocked and so was I.  We both have new lives.  I still love him and miss him, but I don’t want him back. It helps me a lot to focus on today and the here and now.  <sigh  I still get nostelgic and it still hurts.  Maybe I need to change my attitude and learn to hate him?  After all, what his actions deserve it.

His actions might deserve it, but hate only hurts you and poisons your attitude.  It doesn’t do a damn thing to him.  You seem to have things in the proper perspective.  Just be glad you do and continue moving on. Casey

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A comment on the subject line: We are the sum total of our experiences.  Some of those experiences were/are not pleasant ones.  These are the experiences which we refer to as "baggage".  Like it or not, that baggage is part of who and what we are. Ignoring our baggage won’t make it go away.  If anything, it’s gonna make things worse. What we can do is to put our baggage into perspective, and learn from it such lessons as are there to be learned. — "Rudeness is the weak man’s imitation of strength"

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Roger B. said… <snip For a while I thought she was having a nice time but a bit detached and aloof.  It took me a while to realize she had some big issues with trust and was keeping some distance in self-defense.  Ironically, that fear affected her enough to where I was about to decide that she wasn’t very warm or touchy-feely and maybe not who I wanted to be with.  But I kept seeing glimpses of her innner self that just seemed to say the opposite. <snip Mon, Dieu! Casey, you sound like someone who’s in touch with his feelings!  [R]

Sssshhhhh…. Don’t let this get around. Casey

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Donna said… Hello Casey, I understand what you are speaking about. Fear of abandonment has always been an issue with me and I tend to hold back a part of me in a relationship that may have long-term possibilities.

Having seen it first hand, I’d guess that this is a lot more common than we’d all like to believe.  Fortunately, in my case, she was open enough to admit how she felt and why.  I began to realize just how much of the way she acted was driven by the fear of something going wrong.   In her words, "It always does and I end up alone again". Since the recent discovery regarding my behavior and reaction to genuine affection and caring, I have been working on opening up more. What has helped me is to focus on my partner and remind myself that the past is just that – and it should not interfere with the present.

It’s great that you’re aware of it – that puts you ahead of many who will continue acting the same way just because they always have.   I’ll freely admit that I have a few trust issues after being left for roadkill on the infidelity freeway.  Strangely enough though, whether this current relationship ultimately makes it or not, I’ve realized I trust this woman completely and she’s just not the type to stray like my ex was.  My ex’s behavior has nothing to do with her.  It’s great to realize that. Perhaps I have inadvertantly sabatoged many of my relationships in that way.

Maybe so.  Sabatoged may be a strong word, but I can easily believe that some of them may have been hindered because you held back somewhat to keep from getting hurt. Facing the demons is not easy, but I am determined to do it and do my part in nurturing a strong bond with my partner. Communication is key.

Yes it is, and your attitude sounds great.  It looks like you’ve already faced the demons and you’re winning. All the positive posts lately about good coupling has been an inspiration to me to forge ahead.

Good.  Happy forging.   Casey

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Hey All, Had an interesting thought this morning.  Prior to my divorce, in all of my relationships, I don’t recall being insecure.  I trusted my significant other and my x husband and never considered that they might leave me, cheat or whatever.  Either that makes me incredibly stupid, trusting, both or maybe they really meant it.  Either way, now in a new relationship, with a wonderful man, I find I am insecure.  Being as I’ve never felt this way before its very unfamiliar.  I can only assume I feel this way as a result of my divorce. I trust my boyfriend 100% about being faithful.  Its the idea that suddenly he will just grow tired of me and say ’see ya Karen.’ quite out of the blue that freaks me out.  Thats what my x did.  Out of the clear blue sky decided he wanted a divorce.  Very little warning when everything seemed fine.  I guess thats what I’m worried will happen again. Anyone else experience this and please tell me the feeling went away.  Its not a good feeling to feel insecure.  I don’t like it at all.  :-( Peace Karen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey All, Had an interesting thought this morning.  Prior to my divorce, in all of my relationships, I don’t recall being insecure.  I trusted my significant other and my x husband and never considered that they might leave me, cheat or whatever.  Either that makes me incredibly stupid, trusting, both or maybe they really meant it.  Either way, now in a new relationship, with a wonderful man, I find I am insecure.  Being as I’ve never felt this way before its very unfamiliar.  I can only assume I feel this way as a result of my divorce. I trust my boyfriend 100% about being faithful.  Its the idea that suddenly he will just grow tired of me and say ’see ya Karen.’ quite out of the blue that freaks me out.  Thats what my x did.  Out of the clear blue sky decided he wanted a divorce.  Very little warning when everything seemed fine.  I guess thats what I’m worried will happen again. Anyone else experience this and please tell me the feeling went away.  Its not a good feeling to feel insecure.  I don’t like it at all.  :-( Peace Karen

You sound expectantly wary (not surprisingly).    But in all honesty, Karen, are there EVER any guarantees in life?    Sure it could happen, but why go in assuming that? I think you need to give it some more time – see how it unfolds.    (I know it’s hard to conjur up the faith, though).

Response:

Anyone else experience this and please tell me the feeling went away. Its not a good feeling to feel insecure.  I don’t like it at all. Peace Karen

I think it’s quite normal to feel this way.  Also, it’s only been a *very* short time, IIRC since your separation and divorce and you really have barely begun the healing process, IMO. It took me over a year to be able to  go out on more than a first date (not saying that’s better or normal or whatever-just saying that’s what I did). Now, here I am four years since my separation, two since the divorce has been final. I’m in a very serious relationship and I have no insecurities whatsoever.  That my ex husband had an affair caused much distrust in my life for quite a while. I think the old adage time heals old wounds is apropos here. Good Luck — Miss Kristie remove clothes to email  

Response:

Anyone else experience this and please tell me the feeling went away.  Its not a good feeling to feel insecure.  I don’t like it at all.  :-(

I’m still working on that, too.  I’m always afraid that ppl i love are going to go away, or die, or emotionally abandon me.  Almost to the point i was afraid to love anybody. Thing is, they do eventually do those things.  Everybody can die, at any moment.  Kids will grow up and move away (hopefully – tho sad when they do).   Parents die.  I guess i’m lucky not to have the insecurity you described regarding being cheated on, i’ve never experienced that in marriage and feel secure in that. But emotional abandonment is a feeling it’s hard to forget. I must be a lot of fun at parties, huh?  :-)  good luck.  with a lot of work i think you can get past it.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey All, Had an interesting thought this morning.  Prior to my divorce, in all of my relationships, I don’t recall being insecure.  I trusted my significant other and my x husband and never considered that they might leave me, cheat or whatever.  Either that makes me incredibly stupid, trusting, both or maybe they really meant it.  Either way, now in a new relationship, with a wonderful man, I find I am insecure.  Being as I’ve never felt this way before its very unfamiliar.  I can only assume I feel this way as a result of my divorce. I trust my boyfriend 100% about being faithful.  Its the idea that suddenly he will just grow tired of me and say ’see ya Karen.’ quite out of the blue that freaks me out.  Thats what my x did.  Out of the clear blue sky decided he wanted a divorce.  Very little warning when everything seemed fine.  I guess thats what I’m worried will happen again. Anyone else experience this and please tell me the feeling went away.  Its not a good feeling to feel insecure.  I don’t like it at all.  :-( Peace Karen

    It’s the sort of thing that can happen to any one at any time. No one can say with certainty that it can never happen.

Response:

Say, didn’t you very recently got divorced? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey All, Had an interesting thought this morning.  Prior to my divorce, in all of my relationships, I don’t recall being insecure.  I trusted my significant other and my x husband and never considered that they might leave me, cheat or whatever.  Either that makes me incredibly stupid, trusting, both or maybe they really meant it.  Either way, now in a new relationship, with a wonderful man, I find I am insecure.  Being as I’ve never felt this way before its very unfamiliar.  I can only assume I feel this way as a result of my divorce. I trust my boyfriend 100% about being faithful.  Its the idea that suddenly he will just grow tired of me and say ’see ya Karen.’ quite out of the blue that freaks me out.  Thats what my x did.  Out of the clear blue sky decided he wanted a divorce.  Very little warning when everything seemed fine.  I guess thats what I’m worried will happen again. Anyone else experience this and please tell me the feeling went away.  Its not a good feeling to feel insecure.  I don’t like it at all.  :-( Peace Karen

In a cold world you need your friends to keep you warm.

Response:

I trust my boyfriend 100% about being faithful.  Its the idea that suddenly he will just grow tired of me and say ’see ya Karen.’ quite out of the blue that freaks me out.  Thats what my x did.  Out of the clear blue sky decided he wanted a divorce.  Very little warning when everything seemed fine. I guess thats what I’m worried will happen again. You sound expectantly wary (not surprisingly).    But in all honesty, Karen, are there EVER any guarantees in life?    Sure it could happen, but why go in assuming that?

Actually, that’s about what I was going to say. There are no guarantees that whatever wave of good existence we’re riding right now will go on forever. The best you can do is learn from your past experiences (and those of others) and try not to make the same mistakes again. When your fear of losing the good things you have right now prevents you from enjoying them in the present, it’s time to step back and think about what’s going on. The two parts of your story seem to fit together in a way that may not be entirely coincidental (and I’m not trying to lay blame here, I’m just trying to help you figure out how you can get the most out of your current relationship). Your ex-husband, out of the blue, grew tired of you and left. And in your current relationship you seem to be looking for a permanent groove you can slip into and never have to worry about lost love again. I’m wondering if some part of you wants to get (back to) a point where you can just put the relationship on autopilot and not really have to worry about it, not have to put much effort into all the little "pick me!" words, thoughts, and deeds that we, men and women, enact as a part of the courtship ritual. If some part of you did want that, you’d certainly not be alone, since I think most people who re-enter the dating world eventually want to get to a point where they can get past having to "court" on a continual basis. Still, there’s a healthy balance between putting tons of energy into "wooing," and a zone of complete security where we feel like we don’t have to do anything, and our partner will still love us. Kind of like a healthy balance between feeling like you have to get dressed up for every date and go someplace nice, or make a fancy meal–vs. spending *all* your time together in sweats and t-shirt, and always eating mac-n-cheese or pizza. So, two closing thoughts: (1) I think it’s good to find a way to be at peace with the realization that all things, good and bad, come to an end at some point–and we cannot know in advance when, or why, or how; and (b) a tiny dose of healthy uncertainty may be just the ticket to spur you away from complacency in your current relationship that may possibly have been one problem you encountered in your previous one. Workers who live in constant fear that they’ll be fired or that the company will go under are not at their most productive. But neither are ones that work with near-perfect job security for the stablest employer around (the gubmint!). Zenmaster Lith says "embrace the unknown."

Response:

Hi Karen, I wish I had good advice for you, but the insecurity may be a red flag. Has he given you any reason to *not* trust him? Best, donna

Response:

Hey All, Had an interesting thought this morning.  Prior to my divorce, in all of my relationships, I don’t recall being insecure.  I trusted my significant other and my x husband and never considered that they might leave me, cheat or whatever.  Either that makes me incredibly stupid, trusting, both or maybe they really meant it.  Either way, now in a new relationship, with a wonderful man, I find I am insecure.  Being as I’ve never felt this way before its very unfamiliar.  I can only assume I feel this way as a result of my divorce. I trust my boyfriend 100% about being faithful.  Its the idea that suddenly he will just grow tired of me and say ’see ya Karen.’ quite out of the blue

"Out of the blue."  Those words strike me as you say them.  It’s never quite just out of the blue, is it?  I’ve always said my ex wife dropped this bomb on me out of the blue, but was it really out of the blue?  I let her nurture a life seperate from me and our family…even thinking I was doing the right thint.  I knew it was happening, but I didn’t know what it meant or where it was going.  Is there ever an "out of the blue?" robre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – that freaks me out.  Thats what my x did.  Out of the clear blue sky decided he wanted a divorce.  Very little warning when everything seemed fine.  I guess thats what I’m worried will happen again. Anyone else experience this and please tell me the feeling went away.  Its not a good feeling to feel insecure.  I don’t like it at all.  :-( Peace Karen

Response:

Karen said… I trust my boyfriend 100% about being faithful.  Its the idea that suddenly he will just grow tired of me and say ’see ya Karen.’ quite out of the blue that freaks me out.  Thats what my x did.  Out of the clear blue sky decided he wanted a divorce.  Very little warning when everything seemed fine.  I guess thats what I’m worried will happen again. Anyone else experience this and please tell me the feeling went away.  Its not a good feeling to feel insecure.  I don’t like it at all.  :-(

I’m currently experiencing exactly what you’re describing… but it’s not me that’s struggling with it.  The woman I’ve been seeing for the last few months has been having a very difficult time getting past her fears caused by some past bad experiences.  I’ll give her credit for trying and taking a chance yet again, but she admits that she’s just waiting for me to disappear like her ex-husband did 9 years ago and two other b/f’s did since then. For a while I thought she was having a nice time but a bit detached and aloof.  It took me a while to realize she had some big issues with trust and was keeping some distance in self-defense.  Ironically, that fear affected her enough to where I was about to decide that she wasn’t very warm or touchy-feely and maybe not who I wanted to be with.  But I kept seeing glimpses of her innner self that just seemed to say the opposite. In the last few weeks she’s relaxed quite a bit and sure enough she’s actually a very sweet, affectionate woman.  The reason we’re still trying this is that we’ve been talking a lot and she holds no feelings or thoughts back.  Basically, she’s been letting down her guard even though she’s almost expecting to get hurt again.  Sure I’ve been working through my own issues because of past experiences, but compared to me, this woman is walking through fire to try one more time. Casey

Response:

For a while I thought she was having a nice time but a bit detached and aloof.  It took me a while to realize she had some big issues with trust and was keeping some distance in self-defense.  Ironically, that fear affected her enough to where I was about to decide that she wasn’t very warm or touchy-feely and maybe not who I wanted to be with.  But I kept seeing glimpses of her innner self that just seemed to say the opposite.

This is a perfect example of how our fears can lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy coming true.  She’s afraid you’re going to leave, so she holds back from you emotionally, which leads you to believe that she’s not a warm person, which leads you to…… ……leave. How many of us set our lives up that way without ever know it, I wonder. Lauri in WA I like my email spamless

Response:

"Out of the blue."  Those words strike me as you say them.  It’s never quite just out of the blue, is it?  I’ve always said my ex wife dropped this bomb on me out of the blue, but was it really out of the blue?  I let her nurture a life seperate from me and our family…even thinking I was doing the right thint.  I knew it was happening, but I didn’t know what it meant or where it was going.  Is there ever an "out of the blue?"

    But if you hadn’t allowed her to live her own life, then , you would have been "stifling" "controlling" "possesive"

Response:

Hello Casey, I understand what you are speaking about. Fear of abandonment has always been an issue with me and I tend to hold back a part of me in a relationship that may have long-term possibilities. Since the recent discovery regarding my behavior and reaction to genuine affection and caring, I have been working on opening up more. What has helped me is to focus on my partner and remind myself that the past is just that – and it should not interfere with the present. Perhaps I have inadvertantly sabatoged many of my relationships in that way. Facing the demons is not easy, but I am determined to do it and do my part in nurturing a strong bond with my partner. Communication is key. All the positive posts lately about good coupling has been an inspiration to me to forge ahead. Best, donna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m currently experiencing exactly what you’re describing… but it’s not me that’s struggling with it.  The woman I’ve been seeing for the last few months has been having a very difficult time getting past her fears caused by some past bad experiences.  I’ll give her credit for trying and taking a chance yet again, but she admits that she’s just waiting for me to disappear like her ex-husband did 9 years ago and two other b/f’s did since then. For a while I thought she was having a nice time but a bit detached and aloof.  It took me a while to realize she had some big issues with trust and was keeping some distance in self-defense.  Ironically, that fear affected her enough to where I was about to decide that she wasn’t very warm or touchy-feely and maybe not who I wanted to be with.  But I kept seeing glimpses of her innner self that just seemed to say the opposite. In the last few weeks she’s relaxed quite a bit and sure enough she’s actually a very sweet, affectionate woman.  The reason we’re still trying this is that we’ve been talking a lot and she holds no feelings or thoughts back.  Basically, she’s been letting down her guard even though she’s almost expecting to get hurt again.  Sure I’ve been working through my own issues because of past experiences, but compared to me, this woman is walking through fire to try one more time. Casey

Response:

<snip For a while I thought she was having a nice time but a bit detached and aloof.  It took me a while to realize she had some big issues with trust and was keeping some distance in self-defense.  Ironically, that fear affected her enough to where I was about to decide that she wasn’t very warm or touchy-feely and maybe not who I wanted to be with.  But I kept seeing glimpses of her innner self that just seemed to say the opposite. <snip

Mon, Dieu! Casey, you sound like someone who’s in touch with his feelings!  [R]

Response:

sad

Question:

I have been with my wife for 21 years and married for 17, with three children 14,12 & 7. We are both aged 40 within 5 weeks of each other and, I always thought we were happily married, but the last six months or so have been quite strained at times. This has been mainly due to the fact that may wife works as an auxiliary nurse in a private hospital where she often works a couple of long (13 hour) shifts at weekend plus three evenings and the odd night shift. The consequence of this is that she has been, understandably very tired lately. In addition she seemed to find any reason/excuse to be out of the house! I have work commitments, which entails me teaching normally two nights per week, plus a lot of additional after hours work. This has meant that we have being seeing less of each other than I would have liked. I had realised that there was something wrong but we never seemed to be able to discuss the root problems. The kids can be a bit of a handful at times, but whose aren’ t! I seemed to spend most of the weekend constantly picking-up after them and becoming more and more irritable. Recently over the last few months she has become more offhand by the day. I try to make conversation but the replies were often a scowl or at best two word answers. This has made me more and more depressed and left feeling rejected. I finally pushed the discussion to find the problem and to try and work things out. The result is that she says that she "wants to move out for a time to sort things out for herself." She intends to take our youngest with her but the older children; she considers are old enough to make a decision for themselves as to where they will go. She assures me that there is no one else involved, but there is somebody (a doctor would you believe) if she wanted it! The night that this finally came out I simply had to get out of the house and spent the night driving around and around and slept in a lay-by God-knows-where, I was just so desperately heartbroken that I was driving blind. Needless to say I wasn’t missed until the morning. I constantly feel that I have must have done something wrong or that I have failed her in some way but she insists that I am not to blame, but that it is she that has changed and "she wants more out of life", but she doesn’t know what she just needs time to "sort things out". Is this case of mid-life crisis? I must admit that I have felt the same at times but I would never walk away, I feel that problems need to be fixed not run away from. My wife was my first real girlfriend and is the only woman that I have ever had, I was always very shy with girls and she made me very happy. Our courtship went through some bad times as her mother left her father on several occasions which split her family up, and being the eldest in her family a lot of pressure was put on her, but we got through that. We have bad times when she had a miscarriage before our last child, but we dealt with that in our own ways. I have always tried to give her what she wanted and never stood in the way of her undertaking other interests etc. I believe that our marriage vows were made forever. I am left feeling that if she moves out she will not come back, and if she does, I know that things will never be how they used to be. She has said that doesn’t love me as she used to, but only for being the father of her children. Bedroom activity has been none existent for the last several months, but I could live without this as long as I had her company and friendship. She assures me that we will always be friends. I have had no real social life outside of my marriage my only real friend was my wife. I have perhaps one colleague at work who I could talk to and confide in. He has been through a divorce and has major problems of his own. Despite this I feel as utterly and absolutely heartbroken and gutted. I frequently find myself breaking down in tears and have to get away from the kids to hide this, as we haven’t told them yet. I love her dearly and always will, but at this time I cannot see how I can go on without her. I feel that she would like me to hate her, perhaps to make it easier for her to go, but I can’t hate her after all these years, despite having hurt me so much by wanting to move out. I am starting to feel that she is perhaps being selfish and not considering the effect this will have on the kids, but she is very strong willed and when she makes her mind up to do something there is little that will put her off. Her mother/father two sisters and two brothers have all been though broken relationships, perhaps it is a genetic trait of her family? I am left feeling more and more heartbroken, rejected and depressed and looking at a bleak future without her and perhaps without my children. Perhaps I have no future?

Response:

I have been with my wife for 21 years and married for 17, with three children 14,12 & 7. We are both aged 40 within 5 weeks of each other and, I always thought we were happily married, but the last six months or so have been quite strained at times.

While strains are not, in of themselves, a guarantee that the problems are this bad, they do indicate that there are issues that are being ignored by at least one of the spouses. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This has been mainly due to the fact that may wife works as an auxiliary nurse in a private hospital where she often works a couple of long (13 hour) shifts at weekend plus three evenings and the odd night shift. The consequence of this is that she has been, understandably very tired lately. In addition she seemed to find any reason/excuse to be out of the house! I have work commitments, which entails me teaching normally two nights per week, plus a lot of additional after hours work. This has meant that we have being seeing less of each other than I would have liked. I had realised that there was something wrong but we never seemed to be able to discuss the root problems. The kids can be a bit of a handful at times, but whose aren’ t! I seemed to spend most of the weekend constantly picking-up after them and becoming more and more irritable.

Too much work, for the both of you, would be my guess as one cause of what you both are feeling. You chose to make kids, and that means that they will need your time, and efforts, and everyone taking a back seat to an excessive amount of work ( for what ? More stuff ? ) is not good for any of the people involved, adults and kids alike. Recently over the last few months she has become more offhand by the day. I try to make conversation but the replies were often a scowl or at best two word answers. This has made me more and more depressed and left feeling rejected.

Feedback loops. She feels bad, expresses it ( which is normal, as who would be all " lovey ", when they’re overstressed ? ), and you feel bad, and express it. Was it not possible to stop only expressing the stressful parts of the relationship ? I finally pushed the discussion to find the problem and to try and work things out. The result is that she says that she "wants to move out for a time to sort things out for herself." She intends to take our youngest with her but the older children; she considers are old enough to make a decision for themselves as to where they will go.

Rather, she needs a good counselor. If she feels that she cannot find what she needs in her life, with the help of a loving spouse, and all of her kids, what chance has she got to do that with less of her family ? But, if she is serious in leaving, find out for yourself, and your kids, what you can do to make sure that she leaves alone. She has no greater " claim " on the kids than do you, and their staying where their lives are, would be the best for *them*. Their needs are more important than her whims. She assures me that there is no one else involved, but there is somebody (a doctor would you believe) if she wanted it!

I wouldn’t bet the rent money that she’s telling you the truth…. The night that this finally came out I simply had to get out of the house and spent the night driving around and around and slept in a lay-by God-knows-where, I was just so desperately heartbroken that I was driving blind. Needless to say I wasn’t missed until the morning.

Which could be simple lack of compassion, or that hers is now directed to another…. I constantly feel that I have must have done something wrong or that I have failed her in some way but she insists that I am not to blame,

On this one, she is right. You cannot " make " anyone happy, if they choose not to be happy. The only one you can do that for, is *you*. but that it is she that has changed and "she wants more out of life", but she doesn’t know what she just needs time to "sort things out". Is this case of mid-life crisis? I must admit that I have felt the same at times but I would never walk away, I feel that problems need to be fixed not run away from.

Well, now you know where her values are. Do not let her dictate the conditions of the split. You need good legal advice to ensure that you and your kids are not taken to the cleaners. My wife was my first real girlfriend and is the only woman that I have ever had, I was always very shy with girls and she made me very happy. Our courtship went through some bad times as her mother left her father on several occasions which split her family up, and being the eldest in her family a lot of pressure was put on her, but we got through that. We have bad times when she had a miscarriage before our last child, but we dealt with that in our own ways. I have always tried to give her what she wanted and never stood in the way of her undertaking other interests etc.

Which is why she thinks that she can get everything that she wants out of her present choice to leave. Do not let her. She has no right that supercedes your needs and rights, and your kids needs and rights. I believe that our marriage vows were made forever. I am left feeling that if she moves out she will not come back, and if she does, I know that things will never be how they used to be. She has said that doesn’t love me as she used to, but only for being the father of her children. Bedroom activity has been none existent for the last several months, but I could live without this as long as I had her company and friendship.

Uh, no, you couldn’t. I believe that sex is a kind of " bellweather " in an intimate relationship. If it completely disappears, then that does indicate that the relationship has profoundly changed, and very likely, not for the better. Once one intimacy goes, the rest are on the way out, too… She assures me that we will always be friends.

Maybe, maybe not. Ask your self this… would *you* want a " friend " who could hurt you in this way ? This doesn’t mean that she has to be an " enemy ", as you could both be polite and cordial, when having to deal with each other, to co parent your kids. But, friends ? Uh-uh. I have had no real social life outside of my marriage my only real friend was my wife.

This is something that you need to work on, with, and for yourself. IT does you no good to have no good friends. I do understand that you felt that she was your best friend, but having a spouse as best friend doesn’t mean or require that they be your *only* friend. I have perhaps one colleague at work who I could talk to and confide in.

How about from other places ? He has been through a divorce and has major problems of his own.

That doesn’t automatically mean that he can’t be there for you, and that you can’t be there for him. You both would start from understanding where each of you are, in the throes of ending relationships. Despite this I feel as utterly and absolutely heartbroken and gutted.

" Despite this " ? Having friends close by, when I really *needed* them, was a great help to me getting through what was going on. I frequently find myself breaking down in tears and have to get away from the kids to hide this, as we haven’t told them yet.

Counseling could be a help for you, too, not to deny these feelings, but to better understand and learn from them, and to better control them so as not to confuse your kids. I love her dearly and always will,

Not necessarily. If she goes away, and you two only have dealings over the kids, your heart will make room for another. It may not feel that way, *now*, but where you are is not where you will live the rest of your life. Trust me on this one, I’ve been there, but I’m not there any longer. but at this time I cannot see how I can go on without her.

You are stronger than you know, it’s just that you haven’t needed this form of strength up till now. But, you can, and *will* go on without her. You are a person in your own right, and no one’s life is dependant on there being a specific someone in our lives. I feel that she would like me to hate her, perhaps to make it easier for her to go, but I can’t hate her after all these years, despite having hurt me so much by wanting to move out.

Good. You can hate what she is doing, without hating her. Hating someone is maintaining an emotional depandancy on them, and you don’t need that. I am starting to feel that she is perhaps being selfish and not considering the effect this will have on the kids, but she is very strong willed and when she makes her mind up to do something there is little that will put her off. Her mother/father two sisters and two brothers have all been though broken relationships, perhaps it is a genetic trait of her family?

No. More likely, a *chosen* trait of the family, and very indicative of the values, or lack therof, of the family. This is where she learned that this is acceptable behavior, when her wishes desire gratification. It seems that she never placed the same value on the marriage that you did. I am left feeling more and more heartbroken, rejected and depressed and looking at a bleak future without her and perhaps without my children. Perhaps I have no future?

No. You *may* not have the one *specific* future that you thought that you had, but whenever one door closes, another door opens. There are always choices, and possibilities arising from each choice. I do understand what you’re feeling. As I said, I was *so* there, but I chose not to stay in that place of bleakness, once I knew that I had the choice to leave there. You are there now, but you won’t stay there. You don’t have to. Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "

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Response:

Many thanks for your kinds words of wisdom, they are very much appreciated at this time. I will keep you posted, (for better for worse, for richer for poorer etc etc

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David, My story is very similar to yours. Rather than go into here, since most have already heard it, just let me say that I had been married 12 years when I got the "I love you but I’m not in love with you" speech. We have 3 children, also. My stbx (that’s soon to be ex) also wanted to be friends, also needed to find himself, also wanted more out of life, also thought it shouldn’t really affect the kids (and also came from a divorced family, but always said he would never do that because of the pain it caused him). In some ways, I do think it is a mid-life crisis. Like you, I had went through similar things myself (I am older than my husband and both of us seemed to have trouble hitting 35…though we did it 6 1/2 years apart). Anyway, even though I went through my own mid-life crisis at 35, I never thought to leave my husband or my family. I looked more inside myself for the seeds of my disatisfaction. I think your wife and my husband are looking "outside" of themselves and trying to blame their relationships for their disatisfaction in life. Turns out my stbx found a girlfriend on the internet sometime after (or maybe it was before…he won’t tell me) he told me he didn’t love me. We were still living together and going to counseling at the time. He abrupty moved out (maybe she was pressuring him…who knows) because he wanted a "time out" and we continued to go to counseling. It turned out just to be a long, drawn out exit from the marriage with massive lies (to me, our children, our friends, our family and our counselor). And this from a man who has said that the worst thing you could do in our family is to lie. It was like he was possessed by an evil version of himself, but I think he has rationalized that he gave up so much of himself in the marriage that he deserved to put himself first. Trouble was, no one else was aware of his sacrifices but him! He is very non-confrontational (is your wife?) and would rather ignore a problem rather than confront it. Unfortunately, I am the one who will confront a problem but that got me labeled "critical" by him. Obviously a scenario for disaster, which is what happened. I have a feeling that you may have a long battle ahead of you in order to keep your marriage intact. From my experience, it sounds like she is already emotionally gone, and once they do that…it’s hard to "convince" them to come back. I did all the wrong things…begging, making bargains, asking what I needed to do to make him love me again. Now, I wish I had just kicked him out on his sorry a** and said, "You’re not in love with me….fine. Find out what’s bothering you and look me up when you do" or something like that. I wish that I had taken the power at that point instead of feeling so powerless for so long. (And Billh…if you are reading this, yes, I remember that you told me to say something along those lines when I first posted 2 years ago…but I didn’t take your advice…didn’t want to be "mean"). Keep posting. There are a lot of people here who have went through a similar trauma and survived. A lot of the men (and maybe some of the women) will tell you that if she wants out, then make her be the one to leave. Why should she get everything the way that she wants? For me, my stbx was the one who moved out, but he wanted the kids to spend half the time with him and he wanted to be friends and he wanted this and that (not material things for the most part). I wished that I had said, "Hey, bud…you needed to find your happiness…well, go do it!" but I kept trying to accomadate him because he meant so much to me. I’m not ashamed in some ways for trying whatever I could to save my relationship…it was that important to me. And I had to be able to look in the mirror and say that I had done my best. At least I didn’t cheat and lie. My stbx doesn’t get to make that declaration! So, don’t give up…but be careful. Do you best, whatever you think that is. Try to get counseling for yourself and see if she will be willing to go to marriage counseling. Though mine was a bust (since he was already involved with someone else and didn’t have the guts to tell anyone) I certainly learned a lot about relationships and could see some of the mistakes that I had made in mine. I wanted to take that knowledge back to my marriage and make it a better one, but it was too late for me. I hope it’s not for you. Karin (Divorce really sucks, but you probably won’t be able to convince your wife of that. I know that even now, my stbx will deny the reality of the pain he has caused…see my post under "It never ends"). — "Circumstances do not make a person, they reveal him or her." –Richard Carlson

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Gawd I’m hurting like a big dog right now. I was going thru some old email and I came across some of her letters although they were one liners she was telling me how important communication is. I only wish I could communicate with her now. Id do anything to hear her voice. I know calling her would only push her further away from me, she knows how I feel about her I also know she’s the one that has to decide what she wants.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was doing okay – only the occassional bouts of self-pity – but now I feel like crying all the time. Yeah,  I know this isn’t a depression newsgroup. Grace ——- I do not see it as self-pity, I see crying as an emotional release and a reaction to fear in some cases. It will take time, life does continue on and sometimes it has amazing surprises waiting for you. I wish you well.. Sincerely, Deb.

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    I wish I could get to that point pretty quick. I’m still cleaning up the mess the first ex has left. Almost 20 years I’ve been cleaning up her messes, of which each one was a pure act of vindictiveness.     There oughta be law.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re not the only one to feel this bad, no matter how bad you feel.  It will pass and you will feel better.  It just may take a while. Take care,  – Andy Hi Andy;       Part of my frustration is that I am taking all the correct steps – the therapy, AD’s,  work and even volunteering to teach Sunday School – this is our last week though.       The only thing i haven’t done consistantly is exercise.   Not my favorite thing in the world.      So by all accounts I should be feeling better,  should be getting over this.  should be able to put the pain aside. should be looking at the promising future.     But I still wonder why? It will take awhile Grace. Be gentle and patient with yourself.  I dearly love to get out in my flower gardens and for two summers I pretty much did the least amount to keep it from dying off. The things that usually brought me the most pleasure didn’t interest me at all.  No matter how hard I tried  I just went through the motions and  I didn’t experience the joy or calmness it had always brought me. I too wondered if the old me who enjoyed so many things was gone.  Slowly it crept back I now am reading, cooking, gardening and anything else I can cram into each day and loving it.  Time Grace, it takes time to heal from the hurts. Take care, Lori Mc

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. spoiled and very happy.   She gets so excited when I come home from work you’d think I was gone a month instead of only a couple of hours.  I can’t get her to settle down until i sit and hug her for a while.

My ex wife used to be like that in the early days.  Things changed – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s pretty nice. Grace

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     Part of my frustration is that I am taking all the correct steps – the therapy, AD’s,  work and even volunteering to teach Sunday School – this is our last week though.

  While you’re doing good things (don’t worry about ‘right’, or ‘best’, just about good), remind yourself that you’re doing good things.  When doing something you like, remind yourself of it.  It may sound terribly trivial or silly, but it was a big help for me.   A different side is that you feel as you feel.  That just _is_.  Doing good things, fun things, ‘correct’ things, doesn’t mean you’re necessarily going to feel any particular emotion.  Do the good stuff because it is good.  The feelings will be as they are, and (another self-reminder) that’s ok.      The only thing i haven’t done consistantly is exercise.   Not my favorite thing in the world.

  Lots and lots of things are exercise, or can be.  I can evangelize at length, if you’d like.  A few notions:   the best exercise is the one you like best   the best time of day to exercise is when it’s most convenient   some is better than none (you don’t have to do it every day, and there’s     no such thing as ‘too little to count’)   your speed (running/walking/biking/…) DOES NOT MATTER     (’scuse me, lots of beginners get scared off by feeling they’re too slow)   walking is indeed exercise.  It’s also an easy one to ‘hide’ from     yourself (if that’s helpful) by saying that what you’re really doing     is walking around the neighborhood, looking at flowers, and the like.     "Nope, not exercising, just going for a nice flower survey."     So by all accounts I should be feeling better,  should be getting over this.  should be able to put the pain aside. should be looking at the promising future.    But I still wonder why?

  ’should’ is a dangerous word.  You’ve got 4 shoulds in just 2 and a bit lines.  That alone is a warning sign.     Keep doing good stuff, remind yourself of it when you are, and things do get better.  Happens in its own time, and typically you notice that they _got_ better.  That is, you look back and notice that for the last few weeks (months) things have been pretty good.  I don’t think it’s ever a matter of going to bed and deciding that you’re _now_ feeling better. — Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re not the only one to feel this bad, no matter how bad you feel.  It will pass and you will feel better.  It just may take a while. Take care,  – Andy Hi Andy;       Part of my frustration is that I am taking all the correct steps – the therapy, AD’s,  work and even volunteering to teach Sunday School – this is our last week though.       The only thing i haven’t done consistantly is exercise.   Not my favorite thing in the world.      So by all accounts I should be feeling better,  should be getting over this.  should be able to put the pain aside. should be looking at the promising future.     But I still wonder why?

Because it takes a LONG time to pass thru this tunnel, Grace.   It’s a MAJOR event, right up there at the top of the heap.    Think about this:  you were married for many, many years; how can it be (realistically) possible to get over this in a few months?   The answer is, it can’t.   It takes many months, in some cases years, to get thru all of this.   Hang in there.  There is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re not the only one to feel this bad, no matter how bad you feel.  It will pass and you will feel better.  It just may take a while. Take care,  – Andy Hi Andy;       Part of my frustration is that I am taking all the correct steps – the therapy, AD’s,  work and even volunteering to teach Sunday School – this is our last week though.       The only thing i haven’t done consistantly is exercise.   Not my favorite thing in the world.      So by all accounts I should be feeling better,  should be getting over this.  should be able to put the pain aside. should be looking at the promising future.     But I still wonder why?

It will take awhile Grace. Be gentle and patient with yourself.  I dearly love to get out in my flower gardens and for two summers I pretty much did the least amount to keep it from dying off. The things that usually brought me the most pleasure didn’t interest me at all.  No matter how hard I tried  I just went through the motions and  I didn’t experience the joy or calmness it had always brought me. I too wondered if the old me who enjoyed so many things was gone.  Slowly it crept back I now am reading, cooking, gardening and anything else I can cram into each day and loving it.  Time Grace, it takes time to heal from the hurts. Take care, Lori Mc

Response:

I was doing okay – only the occassional bouts of self-pity – but now I feel like crying all the time. Yeah,  I know this isn’t a depression newsgroup. Grace

——- I do not see it as self-pity, I see crying as an emotional release and a reaction to fear in some cases. It will take time, life does continue on and sometimes it has amazing surprises waiting for you. I wish you well.. Sincerely, Deb.

Response:

But I don’t know that I can ever get to the point where I want to be alone. And that day seems to be moving it’s way closer. Stupid person that I am – I told my husband I loved him today.

I hear you – after a year I am thinking about dating… how come ‘now’ I feel too old and unattractive to even "THINK" of dating… Plus how far will I get saying I have five kids.. before the guy goes zzzzzzippppppppp (that’s runs the other way). Oh and it’s okay to be comfortable with the fact you still love him… a divorce is a realization that you just can’t continue to be married to or live with him.. deb.

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    So by all accounts I should be feeling better,  should be getting over this.

Grace… well dear the problem is you have all these pesky human emotions… it takes time, and even a year later, I want to wail when a love song comes over the radio – and I often realize it’s not because of him, it’s because I am afraid that was my one chance for love and I threw it away. I also hate being lonely but… better than what I had initially hugs’ to ya deb.

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Jonesy2222 said… So by all accounts I should be feeling better,  should be getting over this. Grace… well dear the problem is you have all these pesky human emotions… it takes time, and even a year later, I want to wail when a love song comes over the radio – and I often realize it’s not because of him, it’s because I am afraid that was my one chance for love and I threw it away.

When you get right down to it, I think that’s what terrifies a lot of people.  I think that fear keeps a lot of non-marriages limping along.   Fortunately for me, I don’t really believe there’s only one chance.   That’s my theory and I’m sticking with it. Casey

Response:

You’re not the only one to feel this bad, no matter how bad you feel.  It will pass and you will feel better.  It just may take a while. Take care, — Andy Hi Andy;       Part of my frustration is that I am taking all the correct steps – the therapy, AD’s,  work and even volunteering to teach Sunday School – this is our last week though.

None of this is linear.  I think it does all add up though, and eventually you will get past some threshold and things will seem better.  Then another lurch of realization will hit and nothing will seem good. This week is probably going to be full of lurches. If you are going to tell him that you love him, try to run away before you can see the sadness and regret in his face.  That will tear down any supports you have built for yourself.       The only thing i haven’t done consistantly is exercise.   Not my favorite thing in the world.

Maybe find a different exercise.  Maybe something that is enjoyable that also requires physical activity (and that you can do constantly for an hour or so      So by all accounts I should be feeling better,  should be getting over this.  should be able to put the pain aside. should be looking at the promising future.

No.  Probably not right now.  Maybe you can think and understand the promising future, but the feelings will move at their own speed. I’m not sure who has the right set guidelines for what you should be doing or feeling.  Maybe the best thing to do is put Blue on infinite repeat and just sit in the warm tub crying your eyes out.     But I still wonder why?

Why what?  Why are you sad?  Why is it ending?  Why did this person who said they would love you forever change their mind?  Why can’t your feelings just line up and follow your rational thoughts?  Why aren’t your thoughts more rational? All good questions.  Maybe someone else knows the answer. Have you seen the book Crazy Time by Abigail Trafford?  It has a lot of stories and some explanations.   — Andy

Response:

    My horse used to act like that, but since I don’t see her all that often anymore, I get a once over eye-balling to make sure it’s me before she will even approach. On the upside, she is really enjoying her stay with my friends in Florida and has especially taken to their 12 year old girl.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . How’s the puppy?? spoiled and very happy.   She gets so excited when I come home from work you’d think I was gone a month instead of only a couple of hours.  I can’t get her to settle down until i sit and hug her for a while. That’s pretty nice. Grace

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perhaps you only had intermittent bouts of sadness before because you had not reached the full realization of your impending divorce.. Setting the date sort of makes it more real, doesn’t it? When it’s real it’s inescapable Thanks Pamela;   That’s it.  Although I haven’t heard from the attorney yet.  Each time I have to do something to deal with this or each time I have to have contact with my husband,  I fall apart inside.    I feel like a child that’s having a tantrum because I just don’t want to do this.  But I know it’s for the best.   But somewhere in this guy I’m divorcing is the man that I love.  And I don’t know how to get over that.

Of course you don’t know how.  No one ever taught us in advance how to get through this.  You learn how by going through it.  It’s experiential. Don’t expect to have any answers, Grace.  Don’t expect to feel any particular way when  you are in a place that is completely foreign to you.  You feel how you feel, whether that is confused, angry, diminished, sad, or whatever.  Do not confuse feelings with actions. They are different.  Feelings are not controllable, but actions are.  As you control your actions and reactions, your feelings will change. strength and eventual peace to you, Pamela

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Grace said… I know I don’t participate here very much.  It’s because I don’t really have any good advice I guess.  

You can participate… no one expects you to have much advice considering the stage you’re in right now.  However, there are always those who are understandably comforted just knowing someone else (like you) are experiencing the same thing they are. My divorce will probably get set in May.  I was doing okay – only the occassional bouts of self-pity – but now I feel like crying all the time. Yeah,  I know this isn’t a depression newsgroup.

No, but it is a divorce support group and divorce can be depressing as hell.  Most likely you’re crying a lot now because you’re approaching the end and the finality of it can be very upsetting even when you know it’s inevitable. Casey

Response:

Grace said…   So by all accounts I should be feeling better,  should be getting over this.  should be able to put the pain aside. should be looking at the promising future.

It’s pretty hard to start getting over it until after the divorce is final… at least that’s the way I felt.   But I still wonder why?

Sometimes there just is no "why".  It just "is". Casey

Response:

I know I don’t participate here very much.  It’s because I don’t really have any good advice I guess. My divorce will probably get set in May.  I was doing okay – only the occassional bouts of self-pity – but now I feel like crying all the time. Yeah,  I know this isn’t a depression newsgroup. Grace .

Many here have suffered sadness and depression, Grace.  When you know people have gone before you, then hopefully  the words they give you won’t sound empty. Perhaps you only had intermittent bouts of sadness before because you had not reached the full realization of your impending divorce.. Setting the date sort of makes it more real, doesn’t it? When it’s real it’s inescapable.  So, you are now fully experiencing the depths of your sadness for this loss. It can be wrenching.  Let yourself cry it out.  It’s an ok thing to do. You won’t cry forever, even though it might feel as if the sadness is so deep there is no way to get it all out of you.   You will get past this. But, for now it’s perfectly ok to cry it out. We all move at different speeds through this, it’s not a race, and you can go at your own pace. Here’s a quote I like: "It does not matter how slowly you go as long as you do not stop" Confucius Take care of yourself, Pamela

Response:

Perhaps you only had intermittent bouts of sadness before because you had not reached the full realization of your impending divorce.. Setting the date sort of makes it more real, doesn’t it? When it’s real it’s inescapable

Thanks Pamela;   That’s it.  Although I haven’t heard from the attorney yet.  Each time I have to do something to deal with this or each time I have to have contact with my husband,  I fall apart inside.    I feel like a child that’s having a tantrum because I just don’t want to do this.  But I know it’s for the best.   But somewhere in this guy I’m divorcing is the man that I love.  And I don’t know how to get over that.

Response:

You’re not the only one to feel this bad, no matter how bad you feel.  It will pass and you will feel better.  It just may take a while. Take care,  – Andy

Hi Andy;       Part of my frustration is that I am taking all the correct steps – the therapy, AD’s,  work and even volunteering to teach Sunday School – this is our last week though.       The only thing i haven’t done consistantly is exercise.   Not my favorite thing in the world.      So by all accounts I should be feeling better,  should be getting over this.  should be able to put the pain aside. should be looking at the promising future.     But I still wonder why?

Response:

It can be, and that’s ok, as it is one of the short (or long) lived legacies of divorce.  Let’s face it, DIVORCE SUCKS.    It is one of the MAJOR stressors in life.

Yeah,   I am an independent enough person.   But I don’t know that I can ever get to the point where I want to be alone. And that day seems to be moving it’s way closer. Stupid person that I am – I told my husband I loved him today.

Response:

. How’s the puppy??

spoiled and very happy.   She gets so excited when I come home from work you’d think I was gone a month instead of only a couple of hours.  I can’t get her to settle down until i sit and hug her for a while. That’s pretty nice. Grace

Response:

I know I don’t participate here very much.  It’s because I don’t really have any good advice I guess. My divorce will probably get set in May.  I was doing okay – only the occassional bouts of self-pity – but now I feel like crying all the time. Yeah,  I know this isn’t a depression newsgroup. Grace . .

How’s the puppy??

Response:

I know I don’t participate here very much.  It’s because I don’t really have any good advice I guess. My divorce will probably get set in May.  I was doing okay – only the occassional bouts of self-pity – but now I feel like crying all the time. Yeah,  I know this isn’t a depression newsgroup. Grace

It can be, and that’s ok, as it is one of the short (or long) lived legacies of divorce.  Let’s face it, DIVORCE SUCKS.    It is one of the MAJOR stressors in life. BTW, the last time I looked at the so-called depression support group (alt.support.depression), it was totally pathetic – it was just full of trolls, and not much more.    But that was a bit ago.    I doubt if it has changed.

Response:

I know I don’t participate here very much.  It’s because I don’t really have any good advice I guess.   My divorce will probably get set in May.  I was doing okay – only the occassional bouts of self-pity – but now I feel like crying all the time.

I think it is hard to predict when different levels of your being will realize what is actually going on.  There’s nothing wrong with feeling worse after feeling better for a while. Well, maybe there is a problem that could be treated with skilled therapy and possibly appropriate medication.  The big pharma companies seem to have a few guides to help you decide to see a therapist. I’m a big believer in the benefits of both exercise and the church.  Try moving, keep moving for a while.  You’ll probably feel better.  Find a church that you like.  They all seem to be welcoming and willing to help anyone. Try writing down and maybe posting what is making you sad. Since perky hasn’t been heard from in a while, I’ll pass on her advice to try volunteering somewhere that you could help. You’re not the only one to feel this bad, no matter how bad you feel.  It will pass and you will feel better.  It just may take a while. Take care,   — Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah,  I know this isn’t a depression newsgroup. Grace .. ..

Response:

Nope.. not a depression newsgroup…. but a good place to let out how you feel…. Sometimes the best ‘therapy,’ is to just let it out…. Feel free to speak your mind…. And while on the subject of therapy… have you considered going and talking to someone? And is it possible your you and your SO to go for counseling? Sometimes bringing in a professional counselor, who can supply an objective opinion.. can help. Just my 2 cents worth.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know I don’t participate here very much.  It’s because I don’t really have any good advice I guess. My divorce will probably get set in May.  I was doing okay – only the occassional bouts of self-pity – but now I feel like crying all the time. Yeah,  I know this isn’t a depression newsgroup. Grace . .

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I know I don’t participate here very much.  It’s because I don’t really have any good advice I guess.   My divorce will probably get set in May.  I was doing okay – only the occassional bouts of self-pity – but now I feel like crying all the time. Yeah,  I know this isn’t a depression newsgroup. Grace . .

Response:

prospective does not like kids

Question:

Why do some people post these missives?  Why do they feel compelled to obtain a divorce support group’s approval to do what they already have decided to do? In this case, this moron is contemplating marriage to his mistress while still married.  Unf*cken believable! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for some other opinions. I am just keeping this quite short and keeping to the most important issues to me. My wife for me is a very annoying, negative and angry person. Thats quite a simple question and I am now living and working away from home. Which in itself solves that problem for the moment. We have talked about divorce etc. However I have a girlfriend who is very serious, wants me to get a divorce and get married. However the main thing that concerns me is that  she gets annoyed if I talk to or see my children and turns my pictures of them face down. My 3 children range from 15 to 25 and I dont spend much time with them as it is. These are the key issues that concern me. My question is should I just say ‘no way’ to girl friend or should I be more understanding. I really would not be able to handle not feeling free to be with my kids. Matt

Response:

My Own Doppelganger said… Why do some people post these missives?  Why do they feel compelled to obtain a divorce support group’s approval to do what they already have decided to do?

And they never get that approval.   Why come here for approval to dump your wife for a current girlfriend you’re having an affair with?   I certainly don’t get it – unless they’re just trolling… Casey I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol.

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Here’s an idea:  Dump the wife, dump the kids, dump the pictures, dump any marginal ethics you might have, and marry the girlfriend because she’s the only one that deserves a guy like you. Pamela – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for some other opinions. I am just keeping this quite short and keeping to the most important issues to me. My wife for me is a very annoying, negative and angry person. Thats quite a simple question and I am now living and working away from home. Which in itself solves that problem for the moment. We have talked about divorce etc. However I have a girlfriend who is very serious, wants me to get a divorce and get married. However the main thing that concerns me is that   she gets annoyed if I talk to or see my children and turns my pictures of them face down. My 3 children range from 15 to 25 and I dont spend much time with them as it is. These are the key issues that concern me. My question is should I just say ‘no way’ to girl friend or should I be more understanding. I really would not be able to handle not feeling free to be with my kids. Matt

Response:

These are the key issues that concern me. My question is should I just say ‘no way’ to girl friend or should I be more understanding.

Be more understanding of what? Her insecurity about you being a father? I really would not be able to handle not feeling free to be with my kids.

The you just answered your own question.

Response:

Nah.  Strawberry Daiquiris, Margaritas, and Pina Coladas.    (You’re welcome to that, if u can handle it)!     Well ok, maybe some beers too.   Would a Heineken be ok? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <shakes head Somebody gimme a beer.

Response:

Why do some people post these missives?  Why do they feel compelled to obtain a divorce support group’s approval to do what they already have decided to do? In this case, this moron is contemplating marriage to his mistress while still married. Unf*cken believable!

Not any more, I’m afraid.    Welcome aboard the good ship lollipop….

Response:

I am looking for some other opinions. I am just keeping this quite short and keeping to the most important issues to me.

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME. Did I miss somethin?   How could you be old enough to have a 25 year old child, or was he adopted?     (You sound like you’re 20).

Response:

Matt, you know the answer to your own question. It is, in fact, not even the issue of the kids, it is that you have a "girlfriend" (who needs friends like that?) who dismisses an important part of you. The other part of the answer, to your other question that you didn’t ask….is to either do the divorce or do what it takes to fix the marriage. Assuming the divorce is going to happen, take some time to heal, to practice enjoying yourself and your autonomy.  Once you are happy with your life, then you will be adequately selective in finding a person to share an equal and respectful relationship with.

| | I am looking for some other opinions. I am just keeping this quite | | short and keeping to the most important issues to me. | | | | My wife for me is a very annoying, negative and angry person. Thats | | quite a simple question and I am now living and working away from | | home. Which in itself solves that problem for the moment. We have | | talked about divorce etc. | | | | However I have a girlfriend who is very serious, wants me to get a | | divorce and get married. However the main thing that concerns me is | |   that she gets annoyed if I talk to or see my children and turns | | my pictures of them face down. | | | | My 3 children range from 15 to 25 and I dont spend much time with | | them as it is. | | | | These are the key issues that concern me. My question is should I | | just say ‘no way’ to girl friend or should I be more understanding. | | | | I really would not be able to handle not feeling free to be with my | | kids. | | | | Matt

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for some other opinions. I am just keeping this quite short and keeping to the most important issues to me. My wife for me is a very annoying, negative and angry person. Thats quite a simple question and I am now living and working away from home. Which in itself solves that problem for the moment. We have talked about divorce etc. However I have a girlfriend who is very serious, wants me to get a divorce and get married. However the main thing that concerns me is that  she gets annoyed if I talk to or see my children and turns my pictures of them face down. My 3 children range from 15 to 25 and I dont spend much time with them as it is. These are the key issues that concern me. My question is should I just say ‘no way’ to girl friend or should I be more understanding. I really would not be able to handle not feeling free to be with my kids.

Dump her.  Now.  A level of possessiveness that doesn’t allow her to share you with your kids is corrosive to your relationship. You can’t get away from her fast enough.

Response:

matt said… I am looking for some other opinions. I am just keeping this quite short and keeping to the most important issues to me.

I can only imagine what the most important issues might be. My wife for me is a very annoying, negative and angry person. Thats quite a simple question and I am now living and working away from home. Which in itself solves that problem for the moment. We have talked about divorce etc.

I’m wondering the same thing as Roger… does your wife know about the girlfriend? These are the key issues that concern me. My question is should I just say ‘no way’ to girl friend or should I be more understanding.

If I were you I might be grateful to have anyone who could put up with me at this point. Casey I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol.

Response:

Get a divorce, already, dump the girlfriend, and don’t be in any rush to get into another relationship.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for some other opinions. I am just keeping this quite short and keeping to the most important issues to me. My wife for me is a very annoying, negative and angry person. Thats quite a simple question and I am now living and working away from home. Which in itself solves that problem for the moment. We have talked about divorce etc. However I have a girlfriend who is very serious, wants me to get a divorce and get married. However the main thing that concerns me is that   she gets annoyed if I talk to or see my children and turns my pictures of them face down. My 3 children range from 15 to 25 and I dont spend much time with them as it is. These are the key issues that concern me. My question is should I just say ‘no way’ to girl friend or should I be more understanding. I really would not be able to handle not feeling free to be with my kids. Matt

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for some other opinions. I am just keeping this quite short and keeping to the most important issues to me. My wife for me is a very annoying, negative and angry person. Thats quite a simple question and I am now living and working away from home. Which in itself solves that problem for the moment. We have talked about divorce etc. However I have a girlfriend who is very serious, wants me to get a divorce and get married. However the main thing that concerns me is that   she gets annoyed if I talk to or see my children and turns my pictures of them face down. My 3 children range from 15 to 25 and I dont spend much time with them as it is. These are the key issues that concern me. My question is should I just say ‘no way’ to girl friend or should I be more understanding. I really would not be able to handle not feeling free to be with my kids. Matt

I’m surprised you even have to ask the question. — "Through pride we are ever deceiving ourselves. But deep down below the surface of the average conscience a still, small voice says to us, ‘Something is out of tune.’" – - – Carl Gustav Jung

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I realize that this forum by its nature encourages "I" posts….but here’s what I saw in your letter. "I" am annoyed by my wife and "I" am annoyed with my girlfriend and "I" don’t see my children very often….let’s just remove from this entire scenario YOU and BOTH women. There are three children here….two apparently grown? But what do you think THEY want here? Never mind that your wife is a (paraphrase your implication "bitch" and your girlfriend (ditto) is controlling…you don’t see your kids very often, you said. Change that. Get to know them as people. Put yourself second. Um, and exactly why DO you have both a girlfriend and a wife? It sounds as though neither is making you particularly cheery!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for some other opinions. I am just keeping this quite short and keeping to the most important issues to me. My wife for me is a very annoying, negative and angry person. Thats quite a simple question and I am now living and working away from home. Which in itself solves that problem for the moment. We have talked about divorce etc. However I have a girlfriend who is very serious, wants me to get a divorce and get married. However the main thing that concerns me is that   she gets annoyed if I talk to or see my children and turns my pictures of them face down. My 3 children range from 15 to 25 and I dont spend much time with them as it is. These are the key issues that concern me. My question is should I just say ‘no way’ to girl friend or should I be more understanding. I really would not be able to handle not feeling free to be with my kids. Matt

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for some other opinions. I am just keeping this quite short and keeping to the most important issues to me. My wife for me is a very annoying, negative and angry person. Thats quite a simple question and I am now living and working away from home. Which in itself solves that problem for the moment. We have talked about divorce etc. However I have a girlfriend who is very serious, wants me to get a divorce and get married. However the main thing that concerns me is that   she gets annoyed if I talk to or see my children and turns my pictures of them face down. My 3 children range from 15 to 25 and I dont spend much time with them as it is. These are the key issues that concern me. My question is should I just say ‘no way’ to girl friend or should I be more understanding. I really would not be able to handle not feeling free to be with my kids. Matt

Matt I would be the person in your girlfriend’s position.  As a person living in a glass house I’m only going to respond to your stated issues. My very lovely SO would have described his wife like you just described yours.  He emotionally opted out shortly after his second son was born because her behaviour towards him became even worse. He left her, hooked up with me.  I knew he had children.  The difference here though is that I accepted that his children were a part of him and that he definitely wants them to be a part of his life.  I had to consider this as I decided on whether or not to have a relationship with him.  Other people’s children make me nervous but I wanted to like them and to get along with them. I think your girlfriend is being unreasonable, selfish and probably immature.  If you truly love your children then you would be dreadfully unhappy to be with someone who tries to minimise your time with them. Either she accepts that the children are a very important part of your life or it’s over. I was reading a guide to being a stepmother and one of the rules is to never ask your partner/husband to choose between you and the children because the children will usually win. I don’t know what your relationship with your wife was really like, I don’t know what your wife is really like, I don’t know how your children will respond to all of this but I do know that it is wrong for your girlfriend to expect you to give up your children.  That’s about the only given in this scenario. Megs.

Response:

<shakes head Somebody gimme a beer.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for some other opinions. I am just keeping this quite short and keeping to the most important issues to me. My wife for me is a very annoying, negative and angry person. Thats quite a simple question and I am now living and working away from home. Which in itself solves that problem for the moment. We have talked about divorce etc. However I have a girlfriend who is very serious, wants me to get a divorce and get married. However the main thing that concerns me is that   she gets annoyed if I talk to or see my children and turns my pictures of them face down. My 3 children range from 15 to 25 and I dont spend much time with them as it is. These are the key issues that concern me. My question is should I just say ‘no way’ to girl friend or should I be more understanding. I really would not be able to handle not feeling free to be with my kids. Matt

Response:

I really would not be able to handle not feeling free to be with my kids.

I guess that means the new girlfriend has to go, then.  Either that, or you get married with her and then fight constantly about your kids. Nice. Was your wife always angry and negative, or did she turn that way after she found out about the girlfriend? Lauri in WA I like my email spamless

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would never even want to consider spending my life with someone who wants me to act as if my children do not exsist…Think about this go….Children are forever…….Debby

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YooperBoyka said… <shakes head Somebody gimme a beer.

How about a Yuengling? <Hands Yoop one, just in case Casey I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol.

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YooperBoyka said… <shakes head Somebody gimme a beer. How about a Yuengling? <Hands Yoop one, just in case

<glug,…lip smack,…burp …sorry. Kinda sweet,…where’s it from?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – YooperBoyka said… <shakes head Somebody gimme a beer. How about a Yuengling? <Hands Yoop one, just in case <glug,…lip smack,…burp …sorry. Kinda sweet,…where’s it from?

  Pennsylvania.  I prefer Leinenkugel, but can’t get it out here. — Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

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YooperBoyka said… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – YooperBoyka said… <shakes head Somebody gimme a beer. How about a Yuengling? <Hands Yoop one, just in case <glug,…lip smack,…burp …sorry. Kinda sweet,…where’s it from?

Pennsylvania.  America’s Oldest Brewery.   It’s becoming a big deal in Florida and it’s really good stuff… and not sweet.  You’d like it. Casey I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol.

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YooperBoyka said… YooperBoyka said… <shakes head Somebody gimme a beer. How about a Yuengling? <Hands Yoop one, just in case <glug,…lip smack,…burp …sorry. Kinda sweet,…where’s it from?

What I forgot to include in my other reply was this: http://www.yuengling.com/beers.htm Funny think is, I never heard of Yuengling until about a year ago.  Go figure. Casey I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol.

Response:

I am looking for some other opinions. I am just keeping this quite short and keeping to the most important issues to me. My wife for me is a very annoying, negative and angry person. Thats quite a simple question and I am now living and working away from home. Which in itself solves that problem for the moment. We have talked about divorce etc. However I have a girlfriend who is very serious, wants me to get a divorce and get married. However the main thing that concerns me is that   she gets annoyed if I talk to or see my children and turns my pictures of them face down. My 3 children range from 15 to 25 and I dont spend much time with them as it is. These are the key issues that concern me. My question is should I just say ‘no way’ to girl friend or should I be more understanding. I really would not be able to handle not feeling free to be with my kids. Matt

Response:

Matt, I’m going to rearrange your post to conform to my reaction: My wife for me is a very annoying, negative and angry person. I have a girlfriend who is very serious, wants me to get a divorce and get married.

Which came first?  Was it your wife’s behavior or the G/F? If it was the G/F, I’d understand why your wife is annoyed. … the main thing that concerns me is that she gets annoyed if I talk to or see my children and turns my pictures of them face down.  …should I just say ‘no way’ to girl friend or should I be more understanding.

Out of the pan and into the fire?  You use the term annoy both in reference to your wife and your G/F.  I suspect that in fairly short order, you will be describing your G/F as "annoying, negative and angry." Are you attracted to this sort of woman, or do they become annoying, negative and angry after they meet you? IMHO, I think that your 1st task is to figure this out.  [R]

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for some other opinions. I am just keeping this quite short and keeping to the most important issues to me. My wife for me is a very annoying, negative and angry person. Thats quite a simple question and I am now living and working away from home. Which in itself solves that problem for the moment. We have talked about divorce etc. However I have a girlfriend who is very serious, wants me to get a divorce and get married. However the main thing that concerns me is   that she gets annoyed if I talk to or see my children and turns my pictures of them face down. My 3 children range from 15 to 25 and I dont spend much time with them as it is. These are the key issues that concern me. My question is should I just say ‘no way’ to girl friend or should I be more understanding. I really would not be able to handle not feeling free to be with my kids.

Incredible, you aren’t even divorced yet and are thinking about remarriage, and no doubt to a person who wants to pretend you don’t have children?? Think a little bit, you know this is ridiculous. Lori Mc

Response:

Light At The End Of The Tunnel

Question:

Hey Gang, Well, talk about things going good for me lately.  I can finally say that I am happy again.  I was looking back to the last year or more of my life and it really is funny some times how life works out.  Okay.  So, I married my husband, an American and because I was an immigrant there it took awhile before I was allowed to work.  In that time I spent a lot of time writing short stories and have since been published four times.  Had I never married him I wouldn’t have had the time and wouldn’t have gotten published.  Thats just one of my ‘one of those things’ on my list.  Then I got divorced and was nearing insanity at the time and really thought I was never going to get over it and never be happy again.  No one could convince me that things would work out.  I was unemployed for awhile and I now have got a new job and am finally making money again.  I hope to move out of my parents house in a few months and then I will really be pleased with myself.  Now, for the other things happen for a reason.  I hated my past job and now I have a job that I really like.  Had I not married my x I would still probably be hating my job.  I met a guy at my divorce support group who introduced me to a friend of his and we are now dating and he is wonderful.  Had I not got divorced I wouldn’t have met my current SO.  I was screwed for money and now look to be in a better financial situation than I was prior to my marriage. Meanwhile my x is struggling for money in the worst way and here I am in a good place.  This is too bizarre.  I just can’t believe how everything is coming together for me.  I am happy again.  I got through it and although I am still dealing with the hurt and stuff, I came out on the other side and I did survive.  I just look at where I’m at now emotionally and otherwise compared to months ago and the difference is crazy.  I never gave myself enough credit before.  Clearly I am a lot stronger than I thought. I guess I just want to share my good news with everybody and especially for the newbies.  Its tough but it really does get better, although at the time, you couldn’t have convinced me that my life would improve.  Well, I’m the perfect example.  I almost want to thank my x for being such an ass.  Had he not been I would be unhappily married right now.  God bless him! Peace Karen

Response:

Good for you Karen!  This is great news and a good story to give hope to our newbies.  I am beginning to be able to thank my ex for leaving me and feel so much better than I have done in a long time during my marriage.  He is still an asshole but at least I have a beautiful daughter from him and now he has left I have the chance to find true happiness and love. I have learned a lot from my experiences with my ex, about marriage, divorce and what I want from my life.  The things I want from my life are very different to what they were when I got married and now I am stronger I am going to get what I want and not put up with the crap any more. So well done Karen and we can all look forward to a better life if we think more positively and work hard to overcome the bad times which come along with divorce. Mandy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Gang, Well, talk about things going good for me lately.  I can finally say that I am happy again.  I was looking back to the last year or more of my life and it really is funny some times how life works out.  Okay.  So, I married my husband, an American and because I was an immigrant there it took awhile before I was allowed to work.  In that time I spent a lot of time writing short stories and have since been published four times.  Had I never married him I wouldn’t have had the time and wouldn’t have gotten published. Thats just one of my ‘one of those things’ on my list.  Then I got divorced and was nearing insanity at the time and really thought I was never going to get over it and never be happy again.  No one could convince me that things would work out.  I was unemployed for awhile and I now have got a new job and am finally making money again.  I hope to move out of my parents house in a few months and then I will really be pleased with myself.  Now, for the other things happen for a reason.  I hated my past job and now I have a job that I really like.  Had I not married my x I would still probably be hating my job.  I met a guy at my divorce support group who introduced me to a friend of his and we are now dating and he is wonderful.  Had I not got divorced I wouldn’t have met my current SO.  I was screwed for money and now look to be in a better financial situation than I was prior to my marriage. Meanwhile my x is struggling for money in the worst way and here I am in a good place.  This is too bizarre.  I just can’t believe how everything is coming together for me.  I am happy again.  I got through it and although I am still dealing with the hurt and stuff, I came out on the other side and I did survive.  I just look at where I’m at now emotionally and otherwise compared to months ago and the difference is crazy.  I never gave myself enough credit before.  Clearly I am a lot stronger than I thought. I guess I just want to share my good news with everybody and especially for the newbies.  Its tough but it really does get better, although at the time, you couldn’t have convinced me that my life would improve.  Well, I’m the perfect example.  I almost want to thank my x for being such an ass.  Had he not been I would be unhappily married right now.  God bless him! Peace Karen

Response:

Upset again

Question:

may do but they’ll probably end up leaving again… so why bother? just to reduce their guilt for giving a chance to try all over again????

Response:

  Do people ever get back together? —   eeeewwwwww!!!!!

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Joy said… Some of us do, in the afterlife, I think… Geez, I would hope not.  If I didn’t want to be married to my ex in this life, why would I want to be married to him in the afterlife?

Some of us with multiple ex’s would really be in trouble.  Let’s see… Ex #1 went on to remarry twice after we divorced.  Ex #2 was married once before me… but I can’t see her ever marrying again. Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."

Response:

Hey Luther, I’ll requote what janie said (below) because it is important (speaking as the NCP here)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just don’t forget that one of their biggest needs is their mother’s love.  You could best serve them by trying to help them believe in her love, even if her actions seem to be making that a confusing thing for them (and you).  She can love them, probably *does* love them, even if she’s really off-balance right now and not able to show that love in the way "we" as a society would expect her to. Luther, please understand:  **They need to believe that she loves them.**  You can help them believe that, despite the evidence to the contrary.  You have no idea how screwed up these kids lives will be, if they grow up thinking their mother doesn’t love them.  Please try to give them this essential ingredient to their healthy development.  When you talk to them about her, try to find ways to explain that she loves them, but is very confused and stressed out right now, and so has problems following through with promises, etc.  Just keep telling them over and over and over and over that their mother loves them.

It’s a tough act, but that’s why we are parents. Hang tough, and do not let your feelings towards what you ex did to you colour how you let the ex intereact with the kids.  Relish the fact that, down the road, in 5, 10 15 or 20 years, your kids are going to sit there and say, "Thanks Dad, for doing what you did."  Focus on that time. Rambler

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Yup, but what if they’ve felt they’ve had enough, and just want to call it quits?   Not fair. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, in the next life and they go thru the same crap all over again until they get it right.  OMG, isn’t that like Hindu? Do people ever get back together? —

Response:

For sure, there’s nothing you can do to control your ex’s behavior, Luther.  That’s a shame – she really doesn’t seem to be doing a very good mothering job right now. Please try to remember though, that apart from her "rights" and/or wants or needs regarding her children, are the CHILDREN’S rights and needs and wants to have a mother. They have a right to have as much access to their mother as possible. They have a right to have a mother in their life who loves them.  They have a right to need their mother’s love.  She may not be facilitating these rights very well, but I would encourage you not to further degrade them, in your anger toward her. One reason you are the CP is that you apparently are better able to provide for your children’s needs.  Just don’t forget that one of their biggest needs is their mother’s love.  You could best serve them by trying to help them believe in her love, even if her actions seem to be making that a confusing thing for them (and you).  She can love them, probably *does* love them, even if she’s really off-balance right now and not able to show that love in the way "we" as a society would expect her to.   Luther, please understand:  **They need to believe that she loves them.**  You can help them believe that, despite the evidence to the contrary.  You have no idea how screwed up these kids lives will be, if they grow up thinking their mother doesn’t love them.  Please try to give them this essential ingredient to their healthy development.  When you talk to them about her, try to find ways to explain that she loves them, but is very confused and stressed out right now, and so has problems following through with promises, etc.  Just keep telling them over and over and over and over that their mother loves them. I understand your desire to protect your children from someone who is hurting them.  And you do have an obligation to do that.  It’s a very fine line for the CP to be walking, when the NCP seems to be going through a screwy time, and doesn’t seem to be capable of giving the children what they need from her.  Hard as it is though, if you could set aside your feelings about her, and just concentrate on "how can I get my kids as much maternal love as possible", and "how can I help them believe that she loves them" (I would be really surprised to find out this is not true – even if she’s not doing a good parenting job right now), they will weather this abandonment from her much better. Not a perfect world out here, for sure.  But we all do the best we can with the hand we’re dealt. Janie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night my five year old son spoke to his mother and she again made promises that she is taking all the kids to and aquarium to see the fish. That is not a problem for older children the problem comes when a younger child cannot understand that they are not going now or even next week. After they hung up he cried last night and was mad at her because he could not denote the time frame she was referring to (TWO MONTHS).  This appears to be one of her bullshit games and she is not going to win.  I hope she has the brains to read this.  I am restricting her calling for she will not even give the phone number to the children so they can call her.  She needs to grow a brain, she claim that she loves the kids but yet they have absolutely no access unless she calls when it is her convenience, again I say grow a brain and grow up if not she needs to depart herself 100% from the kids.  My 4 year old daughter appears to be separating herself even further from her mother, is this normal for a very intelligence little girl?  It takes and act of God to get my daughter to speak to her mother via the phone.  Or could her action be a result of her mother dragging her around for two months when she was begging to go home because she is daddy’s little girl and she would cry just about every begging to come home on the phone.  The wife questioned me Monday night why I did not tell her where the kids and I were going last Friday again grow a brain NO NUMBER NO GET CALL,  I refuse to talk to her any longer she is supposedly 1260 miles from here so why would she even give a damn.  She acts like she has done nothing wrong with leaving but has no clue the toll that it has taken on the kids.  Sorry about the vent it is not as bad as the post I would have done last night.  I had to hold my son and explain to him that his mother is not coming back home and the other bull that she fed him.   She needs not call outside the three dates that I gave her, the paper work states twice a week so I guess I should tell her to read her paperwork so she understands.  We will no longer answer the phone on the weekend GROW A BRAIN. Luther

Response:

Some of us do, in the afterlife, I think…

Geez, I would hope not.  If I didn’t want to be married to my ex in this life, why would I want to be married to him in the afterlife? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do people ever get back together? —

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Yes, in the next life and they go thru the same crap all over again until they get it right.  OMG, isn’t that like Hindu? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Do people ever get back together? —

Response:

cannot discern time or distance.  Like another said, let her talk to the answering machine.  BTW, why won’t she give the kids her #? I know it’s gonna sound like a broken record, but focus on the kids & count your blessings that you have ‘em in your house & heart. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Last night my five year old son spoke to his mother and she again made promises that she is taking all the kids to and aquarium to see the fish. That is not a problem for older children the problem comes when a younger child cannot understand that they are not going now or even next week. After they hung up he cried last night and was mad at her because he could not denote the time frame she was referring to (TWO MONTHS).  This appears to be one of her bullshit games and she is not going to win.  I hope she has the brains to read this.  I am restricting her calling for she will not even give the phone number to the children so they can call her.  She needs to grow a brain, she claim that she loves the kids but yet they have absolutely no access unless she calls when it is her convenience, again I say grow a brain and grow up if not she needs to depart herself 100% from the kids.  My 4 year old daughter appears to be separating herself even further from her mother, is this normal for a very intelligence little girl?  It takes and act of God to get my daughter to speak to her mother via the phone.  Or could her action be a result of her mother dragging her around for two months when she was begging to go home because she is daddy’s little girl and she would cry just about every begging to come home on the phone.  The wife questioned me Monday night why I did not tell her where the kids and I were going last Friday again grow a brain NO NUMBER NO GET CALL,  I refuse to talk to her any longer she is supposedly 1260 miles from here so why would she even give a damn.  She acts like she has done nothing wrong with leaving but has no clue the toll that it has taken on the kids.  Sorry about the vent it is not as bad as the post I would have done last night.  I had to hold my son and explain to him that his mother is not coming back home and the other bull that she fed him.   She needs not call outside the three dates that I gave her, the paper work states twice a week so I guess I should tell her to read her paperwork so she understands.  We will no longer answer the phone on the weekend GROW A BRAIN. Luther

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Do people ever get back together? —

Response:

Do people ever get back together? —

Some probably do ..but then they wouldn’t be divorced so we wouldn’t find them in a divorce support group, I wouldn’t think? Lori Mc

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Do people ever get back together?

Yes.  Fools.  [R]

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Some of us do, in the afterlife, I think… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do people ever get back together? —

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We will no longer answer the phone on the weekend GROW A BRAIN.

Answering machine.  Can’t cut off ALL contact because it wouldn’t be right, but she shouldn’t be able to bullshit the kids, especially since she’s a long ways away.  If she wants to know where you’re going on a friday night, tell her you’re going to chuck-e-cheese to look for a new mommy for the kids.

Response:

Last night my five year old son spoke to his mother and she again made promises that she is taking all the kids to and aquarium to see the fish. That is not a problem for older children the problem comes when a younger child cannot understand that they are not going now or even next week. After they hung up he cried last night and was mad at her because he could not denote the time frame she was referring to (TWO MONTHS).  This appears to be one of her bullshit games and she is not going to win.  I hope she has the brains to read this.  I am restricting her calling for she will not even give the phone number to the children so they can call her.  She needs to grow a brain, she claim that she loves the kids but yet they have absolutely no access unless she calls when it is her convenience, again I say grow a brain and grow up if not she needs to depart herself 100% from the kids.  My 4 year old daughter appears to be separating herself even further from her mother, is this normal for a very intelligence little girl?  It takes and act of God to get my daughter to speak to her mother via the phone.  Or could her action be a result of her mother dragging her around for two months when she was begging to go home because she is daddy’s little girl and she would cry just about every begging to come home on the phone.  The wife questioned me Monday night why I did not tell her where the kids and I were going last Friday again grow a brain NO NUMBER NO GET CALL,  I refuse to talk to her any longer she is supposedly 1260 miles from here so why would she even give a damn.  She acts like she has done nothing wrong with leaving but has no clue the toll that it has taken on the kids.  Sorry about the vent it is not as bad as the post I would have done last night.  I had to hold my son and explain to him that his mother is not coming back home and the other bull that she fed him.   She needs not call outside the three dates that I gave her, the paper work states twice a week so I guess I should tell her to read her paperwork so she understands.  We will no longer answer the phone on the weekend GROW A BRAIN. Luther

Response:

How do you return this gift?

Question:

That’s all I want to know….

Response:

That’s all I want to know….

You mean your chiseled face, hair and hard body?

Response:

That’s all I want to know…. You mean your chiseled face, hair and hard body?

I mean everything, en total.     And where is the counter?

Response:

Now I reckon life would the most insulting of all gifts to return. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s all I want to know…. You mean your chiseled face, hair and hard body? I mean everything, en total.     And where is the counter?

Response:

Well, that wouldn’t be my intention (to insult).    I think that should be put aside. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now I reckon life would the most insulting of all gifts to return. That’s all I want to know…. You mean your chiseled face, hair and hard body? I mean everything, en total.     And where is the counter?

Response:

I’ll take it off your hands, Bill… Thanks, Mike — To reply via email remove the X’s from my email address: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s all I want to know…. You mean your chiseled face, hair and hard body? I mean everything, en total.     And where is the counter?

Response:

That’s all I want to know….

Just hang in there Bill, in my experience, no matter how bad things are, .. Just give it one more day (think this thought everyday) it will get better. Lori Mc

Response:

That’s all I want to know…. Just hang in there Bill, in my experience, no matter how bad things are, .. Just give it one more day (think this thought everyday) it will get better. Lori Mc

You know what, Lori? I don’t think "it" gets better. You fall in love, get married, have kids, get divorced, kids grow up and move out, maybe you fall in love again, your kids fall in love and get married and get divorced and move back in, you get a job, you loose a job, you get another job, you get more money, you get sick with expensive diseases, you get better… as my mom says, "There’s always something." I think that, to the extent that for some of us things *seem* better, it’s because "we" get better. The balance of objective circumstances of our lives may change very little–we simply get better at appreciating the good, handling the bad, and moving forward.

Response:

in answer to an earlier question, Spalding Gray seems to have thought that the "returns counter" was over the side of the Staten Island Ferry. when my uncle killed himself, my brother, who was only 13 at the time said "Jeez, killing yourself is like folding in seven-card stud when you have only five cards!" I think maybe my uncle had SIX cards, but the seventh was still a mystery, and he couldn’t wait around. if you DO wait around, there is a guarantee: you will have both POSITIVE and NEGATIVE surprises, for that is the protocol.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s all I want to know…. Just hang in there Bill, in my experience, no matter how bad things are, .. Just give it one more day (think this thought everyday) it will get better. Lori Mc You know what, Lori? I don’t think "it" gets better. You fall in love, get married, have kids, get divorced, kids grow up and move out, maybe you fall in love again, your kids fall in love and get married and get divorced and move back in, you get a job, you loose a job, you get another job, you get more money, you get sick with expensive diseases, you get better… as my mom says, "There’s always something." I think that, to the extent that for some of us things *seem* better, it’s because "we" get better. The balance of objective circumstances of our lives may change very little–we simply get better at appreciating the good, handling the bad, and moving forward.

Response:

That’s all I want to know…. Just hang in there Bill, in my experience, no matter how bad things are, .. Just give it one more day (think this thought everyday) it will get better. Lori Mc

We’re committed to see this through … we’ve payed a hell of an admission price to see this movie, and yes were going to see it through. We need all the good people we can get … and Bill … U are good people!                         God Bless you   –   billbo Hope is not a dream but a way of making dreams become reality. -L.J. Suenens

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s all I want to know…. Just hang in there Bill, in my experience, no matter how bad things are, .. Just give it one more day (think this thought everyday) it will get better. Lori Mc You know what, Lori? I don’t think "it" gets better. You fall in love, get married, have kids, get divorced, kids grow up and move out, maybe you fall in love again, your kids fall in love and get married and get divorced and move back in, you get a job, you loose a job, you get another job, you get more money, you get sick with expensive diseases, you get better… as my mom says, "There’s always something." I think that, to the extent that for some of us things *seem* better, it’s because "we" get better. The balance of objective circumstances of our lives may change very little–we simply get better at appreciating the good, handling the bad, and moving forward.

Ain’t that the truth, there *is* always something!$%^# Yes, I think you are right about the "we" get better part. I have had some pretty stinky things happen this week, that in an earlier time in my life would have had me pacing the floor for weeks and a whacked out wreck.  But now from past experiences, I do know it will get better, (or at least I can handle it) and it usually isn’t as bad as it seems. <shrug maybe it is just that I am more grown up and better able to handle problems without letting them disrupt my whole life. Lori Mc

Response:

That’s all I want to know…. Just hang in there Bill, in my experience, no matter how bad things are, .. Just give it one more day (think this thought everyday) it will get better. Lori Mc We’re committed to see this through … we’ve payed a hell of an admission price to see this movie, and yes were going to see it through.

Oh come on now, you mean to tell me you’ve never walked out in the middle of a movie?

Response:

in answer to an earlier question, Spalding Gray seems to have thought that the "returns counter" was over the side of the Staten Island Ferry. when my uncle killed himself, my brother, who was only 13 at the time said "Jeez, killing yourself is like folding in seven-card stud when you have only five cards!" I think maybe my uncle had SIX cards, but the seventh was still a mystery, and he couldn’t wait around. if you DO wait around, there is a guarantee: you will have both POSITIVE and NEGATIVE surprises, for that is the protocol.

Yeah, well right now it feels as if that protocol sucks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s all I want to know…. Just hang in there Bill, in my experience, no matter how bad things are, .. Just give it one more day (think this thought everyday) it will get better. Lori Mc You know what, Lori? I don’t think "it" gets better. You fall in love, get married, have kids, get divorced, kids grow up and move out, maybe you fall in love again, your kids fall in love and get married and get divorced and move back in, you get a job, you loose a job, you get another job, you get more money, you get sick with expensive diseases, you get better… as my mom says, "There’s always something." I think that, to the extent that for some of us things *seem* better, it’s because "we" get better. The balance of objective circumstances of our lives may change very little–we simply get better at appreciating the good, handling the bad, and moving forward.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s all I want to know…. Just hang in there Bill, in my experience, no matter how bad things are, .. Just give it one more day (think this thought everyday) it will get better. Lori Mc We’re committed to see this through … we’ve payed a hell of an admission price to see this movie, and yes were going to see it through. Oh come on now, you mean to tell me you’ve never walked out in the middle of a movie?

Nope, but I don’t go to that many movie.  I have stopped reading a book in the middle, but the key is I found another one more interesting to me replace it and didn’t give up on reading! Lori Mc

Response:

Now I reckon life would the most insulting of all gifts to return.

and has been said ad infinitum since about the 5th century (;-) it ain’t what happens to you, it’s how you see what happens to you…..there is no "reality," only perception of reality. Two men looked out from prison bars: One saw mud, the other saw stars. we all know there are scores of people who would give ANYthing to trade places with people posting in this group, would happily trade for these "problems" and catastrophes. maybe not mentioned often enough is that attitude is a discipline; as with exercise, or brushing one’s teeth, you have to work the muscle for it to grow strong. It’s not supposed to be easy, but if you make it an inalterable decision (Failure is Not an Option) you simply practice over and over and over and OVER again, telling yourself that you will use every microfiber to hard-wire the resilience and focus you need to endure. one thing I saw on a divorce support site somewhere really resonates: Fight Self Doubt with All Your Might. the operative words are those last three. It is HARD WORK. But the harder the struggle, the greater the triumph. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s all I want to know…. You mean your chiseled face, hair and hard body? I mean everything, en total.     And where is the counter?

Response:

well, if you send it, send it COD.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s all I want to know…. Just hang in there Bill, in my experience, no matter how bad things are, .. Just give it one more day (think this thought everyday) it will get better. Lori Mc We’re committed to see this through … we’ve payed a hell of an admission price to see this movie, and yes were going to see it through. Oh come on now, you mean to tell me you’ve never walked out in the middle of a movie? Nope, but I don’t go to that many movie.  I have stopped reading a book in the middle, but the key is I found another one more interesting to me replace it and didn’t give up on reading! Lori Mc

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s all I want to know…. Just hang in there Bill, in my experience, no matter how bad things are, .. Just give it one more day (think this thought everyday) it will get better. Lori Mc We’re committed to see this through … we’ve payed a hell of an admission price to see this movie, and yes were going to see it through. Oh come on now, you mean to tell me you’ve never walked out in the middle of a movie?

No … course, it was just an analogy.   : ) Well … when I was 4 or 5, I couldn’t stay for the end of the Tarzan movie – I asked to leave. The jungle was on fire, the animals were running! I was so anxious! … so I finished the movie in the lobby.         Funny memory that. lol. Is that how it feels? … or is it just a big stinker, 2 thumbs down sort of movie?                 fun with analogies!             —  billbo Life is like a box of chocolates … too many nuts! Not to mention those hard caramel chunks that make your balls suck up into your body cavity as your fillings come out (women’s analogy may differ)! And don’t even get me started on those "waste of a good cherry" blobs, where syrup runs down your chin and makes a sticky mess of things! And, and, and …         All in search of the elusive mocha orgasm!         mmmmm … mocha orgasm! I can see the ad campaign now! …. romantic scene; fireplace, the back of a couch; the sounds of passionate love making ("ooohhh baby, I want you in me now! … your sooooo, goood! more more!" etc.)… camera pans semi-circle left, to slowly reveal fully clothed couple on the floor, feeding each other "mocha orgasm!" ….         Sadly, the U.S. will only see the edited version of this ad. . . . .  mmmmmm  … now what were we talking about?     [dazed and confused] The above is a true $ sad example of AADD at work … [sadly shaking head]

Response:

Just hang in there Bill, in my experience, no matter how bad things are, .. Just give it one more day (think this thought everyday) it will get better. Lori Mc

and you can’t know or imagine how things might change….I had decided to socialize with new people on a one-to-one basis more (after lots of group things, mostly) and said OK, if a nice unmarried person crosses my path, I will say "Call me if you want to have lunch sometime." so I did it, and now here’s this person….and he’s not just NICE, he’s also good looking enough to be on a poster (he’s a personal trainer and former professional athlete), 9 years YOUNGER than I am, and…..(something I never gave any thought to)….really really really RICH. we have a few little conflicts in our "values" ( he’s traditional, I’m a noncomformist) but right now in our lives he wants the same thing I do: intellectual exchanges, fun activities with no "soulmate" or "cohabitation" stuff…lunch, bowling, hiking, movies, a little romance….he puts his child first (as do I, doesn’t want marriage….and….he’s independent and likes spending alone time (as do I)…he finds me interesting and challenging…well…there you have it. it’s something I would never have expected in a million years….and possibly just a temporary diversion, but what fun!? Who’da thought???? oh, did I say he is so sexy I can hardly stand up…..good GOD….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know what, Lori? I don’t think "it" gets better. You fall in love, get married, have kids, get divorced, kids grow up and move out, maybe you fall in love again, your kids fall in love and get married and get divorced and move back in, you get a job, you loose a job, you get another job, you get more money, you get sick with expensive diseases, you get better… as my mom says, "There’s always something." I think that, to the extent that for some of us things *seem* better, it’s because "we" get better. The balance of objective circumstances of our lives may change very little–we simply get better at appreciating the good, handling the bad, and moving forward. Ain’t that the truth, there *is* always something!$%^# Yes, I think you are right about the "we" get better part. I have had some pretty stinky things happen this week, that in an earlier time in my life would have had me pacing the floor for weeks and a whacked out wreck.  But now from past experiences, I do know it will get better, (or at least I can handle it) and it usually isn’t as bad as it seems. <shrug maybe it is just that I am more grown up and better able to handle problems without letting them disrupt my whole life. Lori Mc

Response:

Oh come on now, you mean to tell me you’ve never walked out in the middle of a movie?

No, I don’t think I ever have… I and my date did walk out of a play at intermission once, "Don Juan in Hell". I don’t know if we were too young to get it (we were srs in high school or freshmen in college) or if it was just an awful play. We weren’t the only ones who walked, though. But as far as comparing life to a movie, I don’t see that it’s a very good analogy. If you walk out of a movie, but decide to give it another chance later, odd are you can find it on video or cable or something. With life, if you walk out on it, it’s permanent. No changing your mind. Although I currently don’t see much in the way of purpose for my current what-passes-for-my-life, I’m not sure that permanently giving it back to the Giver is the answer. I may not see a purpose, but presumably there is one. And it’s not my place to make that decision. Although I also think about giving it back a lot, I fear the unknown a lot more than the known that I don’t really like. And I couldn’t possibly do that to my son. I might not be enjoying things much myself, but I know that he needs me and needs to be loved by me and needs my presence in his life. So I suck it up and stick around for him to the best of my ability. And I guess that’s enough purpose for right now.  – Barbara Sz.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh come on now, you mean to tell me you’ve never walked out in the middle of a movie? No, I don’t think I ever have… I and my date did walk out of a play at intermission once, "Don Juan in Hell". I don’t know if we were too young to get it (we were srs in high school or freshmen in college) or if it was just an awful play. We weren’t the only ones who walked, though. But as far as comparing life to a movie, I don’t see that it’s a very good analogy. If you walk out of a movie, but decide to give it another chance later, odd are you can find it on video or cable or something. With life, if you walk out on it, it’s permanent. No changing your mind. Although I currently don’t see much in the way of purpose for my current what-passes-for-my-life, I’m not sure that permanently giving it back to the Giver is the answer. I may not see a purpose, but presumably there is one. And it’s not my place to make that decision.

What do you mean it’s not your place to make that decision?   It’s your life. Although I also think about giving it back a lot, I fear the unknown a lot more than the known that I don’t really like. And I couldn’t possibly do that to my son. I might not be enjoying things much myself, but I know that he needs me and needs to be loved by me and needs my presence in his life. So I suck it up and stick around for him to the best of my ability. And I guess that’s enough purpose for right now.  – Barbara Sz.

I know, I know, I really don’t need the guilt trip on that one.    It most definitely compounds the issue.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s all I want to know…. Just hang in there Bill, in my experience, no matter how bad things are, .. Just give it one more day (think this thought everyday) it will get better. Lori Mc We’re committed to see this through … we’ve payed a hell of an admission price to see this movie, and yes were going to see it through. Oh come on now, you mean to tell me you’ve never walked out in the middle of a movie? Nope, but I don’t go to that many movie.  I have stopped reading a book in the middle, but the key is I found another one more interesting to me replace it and didn’t give up on reading!

Ummm, well, if you lost your "vision", you just might….

Response:

I’m still waitin for ML to send me those Divine or Divining Rods…. Hmmm, maybe I should help out.   OK, you can send em COD, ML. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well, if you send it, send it COD. That’s all I want to know…. Just hang in there Bill, in my experience, no matter how bad things are, .. Just give it one more day (think this thought everyday) it will get better. Lori Mc We’re committed to see this through … we’ve payed a hell of an admission price to see this movie, and yes were going to see it through. Oh come on now, you mean to tell me you’ve never walked out in the middle of a movie? Nope, but I don’t go to that many movie.  I have stopped reading a book in the middle, but the key is I found another one more interesting to me replace it and didn’t give up on reading! Lori Mc

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just hang in there Bill, in my experience, no matter how bad things are, .. Just give it one more day (think this thought everyday) it will get better. Lori Mc and you can’t know or imagine how things might change….I had decided to socialize with new people on a one-to-one basis more (after lots of group things, mostly) and said OK, if a nice unmarried person crosses my path, I will say "Call me if you want to have lunch sometime." so I did it, and now here’s this person….and he’s not just NICE, he’s also good looking enough to be on a poster (he’s a personal trainer and former professional athlete), 9 years YOUNGER than I am, and…..(something I never gave any thought to)….really really really RICH. we have a few little conflicts in our "values" ( he’s traditional, I’m a noncomformist) but right now in our lives he wants the same thing I do: intellectual exchanges, fun activities with no "soulmate" or "cohabitation" stuff…lunch, bowling, hiking, movies, a little romance….he puts his child first (as do I, doesn’t want marriage….and….he’s independent and likes spending alone time (as do I)…he finds me interesting and challenging…well…there you have it. it’s something I would never have expected in a million years….and possibly just a temporary diversion, but what fun!? Who’da thought???? oh, did I say he is so sexy I can hardly stand up…..good GOD…..

AHA!   No wonder there is a sparkle over there!!    So did this newfound inner peace come from within, or…..without?    :-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know what, Lori? I don’t think "it" gets better. You fall in love, get married, have kids, get divorced, kids grow up and move out, maybe you fall in love again, your kids fall in love and get married and get divorced and move back in, you get a job, you loose a job, you get another job, you get more money, you get sick with expensive diseases, you get better… as my mom says, "There’s always something." I think that, to the extent that for some of us things *seem* better, it’s because "we" get better. The balance of objective circumstances of our lives may change very little–we simply get better at appreciating the good, handling the bad, and moving forward. Ain’t that the truth, there *is* always something!$%^# Yes, I think you are right about the "we" get better part. I have had some pretty stinky things happen this week, that in an earlier time in my life would have had me pacing the floor for weeks and a whacked out wreck.  But now from past experiences, I do know it will get better, (or at least I can handle it) and it usually isn’t as bad as it seems. <shrug maybe it is just that I am more grown up and better able to handle problems without letting them disrupt my whole life. Lori Mc

Response:

I’m still waitin for ML to send me those Divine or Divining Rods…. Hmmm, maybe I should help out.   OK, you can send em COD, ML.

(((Bill)))

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s all I want to know…. Just hang in there Bill, in my experience, no matter how bad things are, .. Just give it one more day (think this thought everyday) it will get better. Lori Mc We’re committed to see this through … we’ve payed a hell of an admission price to see this movie, and yes were going to see it through. Oh come on now, you mean to tell me you’ve never walked out in the middle of a movie? Nope, but I don’t go to that many movie.  I have stopped reading a book in the middle, but the key is I found another one more interesting to me replace it and didn’t give up on reading! Ummm, well, if you lost your "vision", you just might….

There are books on tape until I could learn braille! Where there’s a will there’s a way… Lori Mc

Response:

I read this often here…

Question:

Not to say that paying child support AS ORDERED isn’t a necessary thing to do. Not paying CS is also a denial of a child’s rights IMO. But the two aren’t connected – if an ex fails to pay CS, take them to court.  If an ex denies contact with the kids, take them to court.  These frigging games shouldn’t be allowed.

I couldn’t agree more. He’s geeting the shit kicked out of him by her just because she’s got a nasty streak a mile wide. He pays the cs and always has done. And the kids get used a her weapon in the meantime. Yesterday he told me that she has actually been sectioned (means: commited to a mental institution here in the uk) at one point before I met him, for a month. What exactly for isn’t clear (or he doesn’t know for sure) but one of the things that contributed to it is that she smashed the house up, and attacked her current boyfriend, before trying to kill herself, when the kids were in the house and terrified. He wasn’t allowed to see the kids during the time she spent in the clinic and they were taken care of by her parents. I can’t believe he hasn’t told his solicitor this – he’s like, "Well, is it relevant ?" And I’m like "Of COURSE it is !!!" <tears hair out Cherry

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unfortunately, when we are rebounding the house wine often tastes far better than it really is.  Still, we are only human and feel that need to wrap our arms and emotions around someone we feel is special.  My suggestion is to go slow.  Measure your feelings carefully and hold a lot of yourself in reserve.  To invest all your emotions in a rebound relationship could very well be a folly with hurtful results. Here’s a different reaosn why to take it slow. My husband left me over a year ago. Four months later I began seeing the guy who is now alseep in my bed in the next room. We do not live together but he spends far more time here than he does at his home, and we both like it like that. He is going through a very messy divroce, his x2b is withholding access to his kids, harassing me (police and sol’s involved) and is generally a total fruitloop. Our relationship is totally under intense strain because of this – let alone the fact that I have only just started on the road to sorting my own divorce out (thankfully me and my husband are still good friends and it is so far relatively stress free). If a person has an nutty ex (and there are a few of them) I would recommend they don’t get involved with someone else to an extent that that person’s life can be made uncomfortable until they can sort their past lives out. I know that sounds harsh but after having my bf’s x2b write him an evil letter (at my address) saying he can’t see his kids (again) and spouting not only lies about him but lies about me too last week, then sending him a text message today saying that until he stops me talking to a solicitor about my rights to a court order to protect myself from her harassment (which is a long and involved story) that he can’t see his kids, and I and my consulting a solicitor are the reason why he can’t (when in the letter she wrote him it was cos he wanted to pay his child support by cheque which she claimed was him acting unreliably and that was why she was witholding contact

Don’t know about the laws where you are Cherry, but in most U.S. locations, it is illegal to use anything as an excuse to violate a court ordered visitation schedule.  New girlfriends, child support issues, whatever – they are separate matters, and violating a court order will get you contempt charges.  Not all judges are willing to enforce it of course.  But the squeaky wheel and all… every time she violates court ordered visits, if he files a complaint against her, even the most reticient judge might in time do something about it. I can’t believe how often ex spouses use child support as an excuse to deny their children the right to see their other parent.  Stupid control games, at the expense of the children.  If the court thought it was necessary to hold a child’s rights to see each parent conditional on child support being paid, that’s how they would set the orders up.  I get mad as hell when people use their kids this way, to control their ex. Not to say that paying child support AS ORDERED isn’t a necessary thing to do. Not paying CS is also a denial of a child’s rights IMO. But the two aren’t connected – if an ex fails to pay CS, take them to court.  If an ex denies contact with the kids, take them to court.  These frigging games shouldn’t be allowed. Janie — "The deepest principle in human nature is the craving to be appreciated."  –William James

Response:

I am now married to a woman who I began dating only a few mos. after my separation and had moved in with shortly after (6 mos) my divorce was final.  When I moved in with her, I was still attending a support group, and we were both aware that I still going through a recovery process.  We both understood that it was still a diffucult time for me.  We did not marry until 2 1/2 yrs after my divorce, and IMHO, that period was absolutely essential for me to deal with the open wounds of my divorce. Should we have waited longer to "shack up?"  Maybe.  But she had been divorced for 12 yrs, and it appeared, was still carrying more baggage than was I.  Fortunately, the baggage that I and my (new) wife still carry seems to match rather well.

I actually think there’s a danger to waiting too long after a divorce to get involved, too.  I’ve dated women who had been divorced for 8+ years and they seemed to be so set in their ways, that I wondered if their ecpectations of what they wanted from a permanent relationship was reasonable anymore.  Individuals vary, of course.

Response:

Ten years ago in Texas he wouldn’t have had a snowball’s chance in hell either. This situation sounds like we are going to have to wait for Jesus to come back for help. Sorry. Kelly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In Texas he would be able to gain custody of his children because of the actions of his 2bx. In the UK, which is where we are, he hasn’t got a snowball in hell’s chance. He’s a single man living in a rented room with a low paid job, no assets and no savings and no way to provide adequately for the kids (I basically carry him financially and I’m on disability benfits – that’ll give you an idea of how broke he is) – and an x2b who is prepared to lie and cheat her way through the system in order to get what she wants – i.e. as little involvement allowed to him with his kids as possible. He knows he’d never get custody and it isn’t what he wants anyway because despite her loony ways he accepts that the kids are probably better off with their mother, considering his housing and financial situation (and the fact that the two elder ones, his step kids who are obviously not his own children, are both in special schools due to autism and adhd that he admits he could not handle alone) – he just wants to be able to see them once a week and have the youngest, his biological son, stay over now and then. Even that isn’t happening right now though. My involvement with the kids – which was extensive before all this bullshit broke out from their mother – has dwindled to nothing in an attempt to try and cause as little of a blip on their mother’s radar as possible, in view of her harassment of me and the fact that I don’t want to cause any issues that might send her off into withholding them again. It seems my mere presense in his life causes her an issue and is not allowed as far as she’s concerned and she uses her kids as a weapon against him. Therefore I haven’t seen them for six months. What pisses me off is that I was told I could end up having to go to a court hearing to prove I am not a fly-by-night partner and am suitable to be allowed to accompany him and the kids to the park once a week if she saw fit to try and make me out to be unsuitable to see the kids. She has implied as much in the past – for what reasons we don’t know, but I suspect it is because I am virtually blind and she’s going to pull the "unfit to supervise children" trick – which is why I was never left alone with the kids, bf was always there, all the time, as I am neither experienced in child care, not having kids of my own, nor comfortable in taking on the responsibilty of someone else’s kids when a) I am blind as a bat and b) their mother would love to find fault in anything I did or said so I don’t trust her not to make up more lies about me. She chucked my bf out, then moved his best friend in three days later to take over the role of father-figure to the kids and *nobody* has asked whether that man is a suitable role model for them. Considering he left his own gf and kids behind to take up with x2b, smokes pot around the children constantly (he even used to drive them over to meet my bf for access visits stoned) and is a total unemployed waster who has spent time in prison for abh and gta, I feel that the fact that he is not required to prove his worth or is called into question with regards to his suitabilty to be around the kids and I could be is a tad fucking unfair. <venting again ! Cherry

Response:

In Texas he would be able to gain custody of his children because of the

actions of his 2bx. In the UK, which is where we are, he hasn’t got a snowball in hell’s chance. He’s a single man living in a rented room with a low paid job, no assets and no savings and no way to provide adequately for the kids (I basically carry him financially and I’m on disability benfits – that’ll give you an idea of how broke he is) – and an x2b who is prepared to lie and cheat her way through the system in order to get what she wants – i.e. as little involvement allowed to him with his kids as possible. He knows he’d never get custody and it isn’t what he wants anyway because despite her loony ways he accepts that the kids are probably better off with their mother, considering his housing and financial situation (and the fact that the two elder ones, his step kids who are obviously not his own children, are both in special schools due to autism and adhd that he admits he could not handle alone) – he just wants to be able to see them once a week and have the youngest, his biological son, stay over now and then. Even that isn’t happening right now though. My involvement with the kids – which was extensive before all this bullshit broke out from their mother – has dwindled to nothing in an attempt to try and cause as little of a blip on their mother’s radar as possible, in view of her harassment of me and the fact that I don’t want to cause any issues that might send her off into withholding them again. It seems my mere presense in his life causes her an issue and is not allowed as far as she’s concerned and she uses her kids as a weapon against him. Therefore I haven’t seen them for six months. What pisses me off is that I was told I could end up having to go to a court hearing to prove I am not a fly-by-night partner and am suitable to be allowed to accompany him and the kids to the park once a week if she saw fit to try and make me out to be unsuitable to see the kids. She has implied as much in the past – for what reasons we don’t know, but I suspect it is because I am virtually blind and she’s going to pull the "unfit to supervise children" trick – which is why I was never left alone with the kids, bf was always there, all the time, as I am neither experienced in child care, not having kids of my own, nor comfortable in taking on the responsibilty of someone else’s kids when a) I am blind as a bat and b) their mother would love to find fault in anything I did or said so I don’t trust her not to make up more lies about me. She chucked my bf out, then moved his best friend in three days later to take over the role of father-figure to the kids and *nobody* has asked whether that man is a suitable role model for them. Considering he left his own gf and kids behind to take up with x2b, smokes pot around the children constantly (he even used to drive them over to meet my bf for access visits stoned) and is a total unemployed waster who has spent time in prison for abh and gta, I feel that the fact that he is not required to prove his worth or is called into question with regards to his suitabilty to be around the kids and I could be is a tad fucking unfair. <venting again ! Cherry

Response:

In Texas he would be able to gain custody of his children because of the actions of his 2bx. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unfortunately, when we are rebounding the house wine often tastes far better than it really is.  Still, we are only human and feel that need to wrap our arms and emotions around someone we feel is special.  My suggestion is to go slow.  Measure your feelings carefully and hold a lot of yourself in reserve.  To invest all your emotions in a rebound relationship could very well be a folly with hurtful results. Here’s a different reaosn why to take it slow. My husband left me over a year ago. Four months later I began seeing the guy who is now alseep in my bed in the next room. We do not live together but he spends far more time here than he does at his home, and we both like it like that. He is going through a very messy divroce, his x2b is withholding access to his kids, harassing me (police and sol’s involved) and is generally a total fruitloop. Our relationship is totally under intense strain because of this – let alone the fact that I have only just started on the road to sorting my own divorce out (thankfully me and my husband are still good friends and it is so far relatively stress free). If a person has an nutty ex (and there are a few of them) I would recommend they don’t get involved with someone else to an extent that that person’s life can be made uncomfortable until they can sort their past lives out. I know that sounds harsh but after having my bf’s x2b write him an evil letter (at my address) saying he can’t see his kids (again) and spouting not only lies about him but lies about me too last week, then sending him a text message today saying that until he stops me talking to a solicitor about my rights to a court order to protect myself from her harassment (which is a long and involved story) that he can’t see his kids, and I and my consulting a solicitor are the reason why he can’t (when in the letter she wrote him it was cos he wanted to pay his child support by cheque which she claimed was him acting unreliably and that was why she was witholding contact – my sol had not written to her or anything at that point and she knew nothing of my dealings with legal proceedings in order to protect myself) — I am at the end of my rope with this. I feel he shouldn’t have gotten so involved with me when he had this total baggage hanging off him. I, of course, knew his x2b was abit of a pain but I had no idea she was going to turn out like this (he did – she did it to his previous gf and has done it to her first husband and his partners). Had I have known I may well have kept abit more of myself in reserve. And of course, I’m now his support and he can’t get through it without me, he says. So me and he and our relationship are udner constant fire by his x2b and her harassment, and if I wanted some space from it, not only would he feel I was deserting him in his time of need but she’d crow about it to all and sundry because what she really wants is to split us up – she’s even said as much to him, and that’s why she’s harassing me – she’s hoping I’ll dump him and wants to make my life a living hell (her exact words) in the meantime. But for the last five months she’s harassed me left, right and centre and I am just about trampled to death emotionally. So I can’t win whatever I do. Argh – this may sound like rambling that doesn’t make sense but I am feeling pretty sorry for myself. I am batting for his team big style in his fight to get regular access to his kids that he can rely on  - with my time, my effort and my bloody credit card to pay his sol’s bills – and all I want him to tell her is to fuck off and that he will support me in protecting myself from her come what may, and that he won’t let her use his kids as a weapon to yet again get what she wants from him – which is control over his new life in the form of getting away with harassing me. He can’t protect me and support me in this relationship if his ex is causing me trouble when he is constantly afraid she’ll withhold the kids for it – but the news is (and I have figured this out long ago, he just has to wake up and smell the coffee) – she’ll withhold them anyway, she always does it when it suits her – and she’ll change the reason why she does it to suit her from one day to the next. And letting her get away with it is bad for not only him, and him and me, but the kids too. I am very miserable and sorry for myself, I do apologise. This has no relevance whatsoever to the OP’s issue I guess, but I just had to vent. Cherry.

Response:

Unfortunately, when we are rebounding the house wine often tastes far better than it really is.  Still, we are only human and feel that need to wrap our arms and emotions around someone we feel is special.  My suggestion is to go slow.  Measure your feelings carefully and hold a lot of yourself in reserve.  To invest all your emotions in a rebound relationship could very well be a folly with hurtful results.

Here’s a different reaosn why to take it slow. My husband left me over a year ago. Four months later I began seeing the guy who is now alseep in my bed in the next room. We do not live together but he spends far more time here than he does at his home, and we both like it like that. He is going through a very messy divroce, his x2b is withholding access to his kids, harassing me (police and sol’s involved) and is generally a total fruitloop. Our relationship is totally under intense strain because of this – let alone the fact that I have only just started on the road to sorting my own divorce out (thankfully me and my husband are still good friends and it is so far relatively stress free). If a person has an nutty ex (and there are a few of them) I would recommend they don’t get involved with someone else to an extent that that person’s life can be made uncomfortable until they can sort their past lives out. I know that sounds harsh but after having my bf’s x2b write him an evil letter (at my address) saying he can’t see his kids (again) and spouting not only lies about him but lies about me too last week, then sending him a text message today saying that until he stops me talking to a solicitor about my rights to a court order to protect myself from her harassment (which is a long and involved story) that he can’t see his kids, and I and my consulting a solicitor are the reason why he can’t (when in the letter she wrote him it was cos he wanted to pay his child support by cheque which she claimed was him acting unreliably and that was why she was witholding contact – my sol had not written to her or anything at that point and she knew nothing of my dealings with legal proceedings in order to protect myself) — I am at the end of my rope with this.  I feel he shouldn’t have gotten so involved with me when he had this total baggage hanging off him. I, of course, knew his x2b was abit of a pain but I had no idea she was going to turn out like this (he did – she did it to his previous gf and has done it to her first husband and his partners). Had I have known I may well have kept abit more of myself in reserve. And of course, I’m now his support and he can’t get through it without me, he says. So me and he and our relationship are udner constant fire by his x2b and her harassment, and if I wanted some space from it, not only would he feel I was deserting him in his time of need but she’d crow about it to all and sundry because what she really wants is to split us up – she’s even said as much to him, and that’s why she’s harassing me – she’s hoping I’ll dump him and wants to make my life a living hell (her exact words) in the meantime. But for the last five months she’s harassed me left, right and centre and I am just about trampled to death emotionally. So I can’t win whatever I do. Argh – this may sound like rambling that doesn’t make sense but I am feeling pretty sorry for myself. I am batting for his team big style in his fight to get regular access to his kids that he can rely on  - with my time, my effort and my bloody credit card to pay his sol’s bills – and all I want him to tell her is to fuck off and that he will support me in protecting myself from her come what may, and that he won’t let her use his kids as a weapon to yet again get what she wants from him – which is control over his new life in the form of getting away with harassing me. He can’t protect me and support me in this relationship if his ex is causing me trouble when he is constantly afraid she’ll withhold the kids for it – but the news is (and I have figured this out long ago, he just has to wake up and smell the coffee) – she’ll withhold them anyway, she always does it when it suits her – and she’ll change the reason why she does it to suit her from one day to the next. And letting her get away with it is bad for not only him, and him and me, but the kids too. I am very miserable and sorry for myself, I do apologise. This has no relevance whatsoever to the OP’s issue I guess, but I just had to vent. Cherry.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a motive to my question.  I have met a lady that I went to highschool with about (wow)  23 or so years ago.  I had always liked her personality (not to mention I think she is attractive) and even asked her out when I was in my twenties.  At that time she was involved with her now STBX. She to is going through a divorce and we have been using each other as support.  We have been talking on the phone a few weeks and had gotten together a couple of times.  Next week we are both going through an 8 week divorce support program offered by our church.  I really enjoy her company and would like for it to be more than friends.  She has suggested the same.. It seems right to go in that direction but I always have the one eye open trying to check myself.  It’s still very early and I wanted the feedback from this group.  (Which I appreciate).  I always consider advice that is given to me, but I really feel good about this person….  When I read the post about "Don’t jump into a relationship right away" it of course stood out like a sore thumb.  I could always walk away but I feel I would be missing an opportunity with a very compatible and good person….  So I will try to move sssslowwwwwly and see what happens.

I don’t think you should walk away from a friend who makes you feel good, and who you obviously have great affection for. I think the rebound problem occurs when we "need" someone to make us feel lovable again.  If we feel lovable, and like we’re a great person, whether or not this other person is in our life – then we bring all that self-love and positive energy into a new relationship, and we’re able to really love the other person, without being a "leech" on them, desperate for the self-esteem bolstering we need from them. Hope that helps?  I feel like I am rambling Janie — "The deepest principle in human nature is the craving to be appreciated."  –William James

Response:

Unfortunately, when we are rebounding the house wine often tastes far better than it really is.  Still, we are only human and feel that need to wrap our arms and emotions around someone we feel is special.  My suggestion is to go slow.  Measure your feelings carefully and hold a lot of yourself in reserve.  To invest all your emotions in a rebound relationship could very well be a folly with hurtful results. — Gentleman Jim A country boy and southern gentleman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 3) Don’t jump into another relationship right away. You may not realise it but you’ll be a basketcase for at least a year (probably two), especially if the relationship being severed was 5 years or longer. Not that I disagree with this statement, but I have seen couples that have had fulfilling relationships that lasted for long periods that were started months after a separation/divorce.    However, I do wonder what common mistakes are made by starting a relationship too soon?  And how do you know it’s really too soon unless you try?  And since all relationships are tricky as hell, how do you know it would or would not had been any different had it started sooner or later?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<<<Are you dating at the moment? Not that you expected me to answer but what the heck! I have been going to dinner with another women as friends.   This specific lady I am interested in I have only spent a few hours at her place and at a mutual friends home. <<<<Do you feel ok being alone half of the time? Yes, I still have my moments but I generally feel OK most of the time.  I know I probably will have some rocky times ahead of me, but in general I feel lucky that I feel as good as I do.  Once I committed to a rigorous exercising program, eating right and cutting out any alcohol, things started moving in the right direction much faster….   Though I still question if I’m as "OK" as I think or is the monster lingering around the corner?????

If you do/did your " home work " you should not to much worry about the monster. <<<<Do you enjoy life and living? Yes,  but I had my moments and still do at times.

Those moments are paying me a visit to here and then but less often and with lesser force. <<<<Is the ex really ex or do you have to mention the ex fairly often? I do not mention mine too much but she does hers…

It is more about her then, then about you. <<<<Are there other ng’s you post to ( not divorce or marriage related )? I do not follow this, but I post at other groups to get answers for business related issues. It’s almost like I do not question myself as much as I question the other person…  I do not want to committ to anything other than exploring a deeper frienship and maybe something in the future???  I do not really have a gauge.  I know I want to be more than a buddy…   But she has to feel OK about it to.

I think you are ready for a new relationship but if  she is ready is another thing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 3) Don’t jump into another relationship right away. You may not realise it but you’ll be a basketcase for at least a year (probably two), especially if the relationship being severed was 5 years or longer. Not that I disagree with this statement, but I have seen couples that have had fulfilling relationships that lasted for long periods that were started months after a separation/divorce.    However, I do wonder what common mistakes are made by starting a relationship too soon?  And how do you know it’s really too soon unless you try?  And since all relationships are tricky as hell, how do you know it would or would not had been any different had it started sooner or later?     Are you dating at the moment?     Do you feel ok being alone half of the time?     Do you enjoy life and living?     Is the ex really ex or do you have to mention the ex fairly often?     Are there other ng’s you post to ( not divorce or marriage related )?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a motive to my question.  I have met a lady that I went to highschool with about (wow)  23 or so years ago.  I had always liked her personality (not to mention I think she is attractive) and even asked her out when I was in my twenties.  At that time she was involved with her now STBX.  She to is going through a divorce and we have been using each other as support.  We have been talking on the phone a few weeks and had gotten together a couple of times.  Next week we are both going through an 8 week divorce support program offered by our church.  I really enjoy her company and would like for it to be more than friends.  She has suggested the same.. It seems right to go in that direction but I always have the one eye open trying to check myself.  It’s still very early and I wanted the feedback from this group.  (Which I appreciate).  I always consider advice that is given to me, but I really feel good about this person….  When I read the post about "Don’t jump into a relationship right away" it of course stood out like a sore thumb.  I could always walk away but I feel I would be missing an opportunity with a very compatible and good person….  So I will try to move sssslowwwwwly and see what happens.

There are no absolutes here. I think we tend to say that (don’t worry about relationships) for good reasons. But, that doesn’t mean your not one of the lucky ones who meets someone special early in the process. Only u can ultimately judge that.         It’s good to learn the pitfalls; and ask the right questions – and take it slow. Amounts to the same thing – fore-warned is fore-armed –         Best of luck in the process  –  If there’s anything positive about this divorce thing, is that there is learning to be had! About ourselves, our interactions with others; about our inner convictions etc.                         —  billbo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Confusion said… 3) Don’t jump into another relationship right away. You may not realise it but you’ll be a basketcase for at least a year (probably two), especially if the relationship being severed was 5 years or longer. Not that I disagree with this statement, but I have seen couples that have had fulfilling relationships that lasted for long periods that were started months after a separation/divorce.    However, I do wonder what common mistakes are made by starting a relationship too soon?  And how do you know it’s really too soon unless you try?  And since all relationships are tricky as hell, how do you know it would or would not had been any different had it started sooner or later? I’m probably not the right one to ask, but I’d say you’re making a mistake if it’s the relationship you want instead of the person you’re starting one with.  I think sometimes the idea of being with someone after a divorce is just so appealing that it takes over. Casey

                  Out of Body. Back in Five Minutes.

Response:

<<<<Are you dating at the moment? Not that you expected me to answer but what the heck! I have been going to dinner with another women as friends.   This specific lady I am interested in I have only spent a few hours at her place and at a mutual friends home. <<<<Do you feel ok being alone half of the time? Yes, I still have my moments but I generally feel OK most of the time.  I know I probably will have some rocky times ahead of me, but in general I feel lucky that I feel as good as I do.  Once I committed to a rigorous exercising program, eating right and cutting out any alcohol, things started moving in the right direction much faster….  Though I still question if I’m as "OK" as I think or is the monster lingering around the corner????? <<<<Do you enjoy life and living? Yes,  but I had my moments and still do at times. <<<<Is the ex really ex or do you have to mention the ex fairly often? I do not mention mine too much but she does hers… <<<<Are there other ng’s you post to ( not divorce or marriage related )? I do not follow this, but I post at other groups to get answers for business related issues. It’s almost like I do not question myself as much as I question the other person…  I do not want to committ to anything other than exploring a deeper frienship and maybe something in the future???  I do not really have a gauge.  I know I want to be more than a buddy…  But she has to feel OK about it to.

3) Don’t jump into another relationship right away. You may not realise it but you’ll be a basketcase for at least a year (probably two), especially if the relationship being severed was 5 years or longer. Not that I disagree with this statement, but I have seen couples that have had fulfilling relationships that lasted for long periods that were started months after a separation/divorce.    However, I do wonder what common mistakes are made by starting a relationship too soon?  And how do you know it’s really too soon unless you try?  And since all relationships are tricky as hell, how do you know it would or would not had been any different had it started sooner or later?   Are you dating at the moment?   Do you feel ok being alone half of the time?   Do you enjoy life and living?   Is the ex really ex or do you have to mention the ex fairly often?   Are there other ng’s you post to ( not divorce or marriage related )?

Response:

There is a motive to my question.  I have met a lady that I went to highschool with about (wow)  23 or so years ago.  I had always liked her personality (not to mention I think she is attractive) and even asked her out when I was in my twenties.  At that time she was involved with her now STBX.  She to is going through a divorce and we have been using each other as support.  We have been talking on the phone a few weeks and had gotten together a couple of times.  Next week we are both going through an 8 week divorce support program offered by our church.  I really enjoy her company and would like for it to be more than friends.  She has suggested the same.  It seems right to go in that direction but I always have the one eye open trying to check myself.  It’s still very early and I wanted the feedback from this group.  <snip

To show why I think that you should continue seeing this woman, let things develop, but slow it down a little, here is my story: My ex and I separated in Oct.’99.  Even though I was still messed up, I gingerly began dating in Dec.’99, more to start climbing up the steep learning curve that lay ahead of me than for anything serious. Fortunately, my divorce was uncontested and quick (12/23/99)… <Note:  I did not even note the 4yr. anniversary on Tuesday Six mos. later, I moved in with one of two ladies who I had been seeing the most… the other was seeing other guys away.  We both knew that I still had "issues" and that I was still attending a support group.  I ’spose that, if things had not worked out, we both could have been greatly hurt, but things did… 15 mos. later, I proposed, and 12 mos. after that, we married.  At no time, did I attempt to do any of this before I felt that I was ready and could bring a full plate to the table. So, what I am saying is this:  Accept your limitations, try to live within yourself, let things take their own course, be honest with her about your feelings (women seem to appreciate that), but DO NOT let a relationship become the sole source of happiness or measure of self-worth.  IMHO, if you manage to do these things, and keep your wits about you, you should be okay.  [Roger]

Response:

There is a motive to my question.  I have met a lady that I went to highschool with about (wow)  23 or so years ago.  I had always liked her personality (not to mention I think she is attractive) and even asked her out when I was in my twenties.  At that time she was involved with her now STBX.  She to is going through a divorce and we have been using each other as support.  We have been talking on the phone a few weeks and had gotten together a couple of times.  Next week we are both going through an 8 week divorce support program offered by our church.  I really enjoy her company and would like for it to be more than friends.  She has suggested the same.. It seems right to go in that direction but I always have the one eye open trying to check myself.  It’s still very early and I wanted the feedback from this group.  (Which I appreciate).  I always consider advice that is given to me, but I really feel good about this person….  When I read the post about "Don’t jump into a relationship right away" it of course stood out like a sore thumb.  I could always walk away but I feel I would be missing an opportunity with a very compatible and good person….  So I will try to move sssslowwwwwly and see what happens.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Confusion said… 3) Don’t jump into another relationship right away. You may not realise it but you’ll be a basketcase for at least a year (probably two), especially if the relationship being severed was 5 years or longer. Not that I disagree with this statement, but I have seen couples that have had fulfilling relationships that lasted for long periods that were started months after a separation/divorce.    However, I do wonder what common mistakes are made by starting a relationship too soon?  And how do you know it’s really too soon unless you try?  And since all relationships are tricky as hell, how do you know it would or would not had been any different had it started sooner or later? I’m probably not the right one to ask, but I’d say you’re making a mistake if it’s the relationship you want instead of the person you’re starting one with.  I think sometimes the idea of being with someone after a divorce is just so appealing that it takes over. Casey

Response:

3) Don’t jump into another relationship right away. You may not realise it but you’ll be a basketcase for at least a year (probably two), especially if the relationship being severed was 5 years or longer. Not that I disagree with this statement, but I have seen couples that have had fulfilling relationships that lasted for long periods that were started months after a separation/divorce.    However, I do wonder what common mistakes are made by starting a relationship too soon?  And how do you know it’s really too soon unless you try?  And since all relationships are tricky as hell, how do you know it would or would not had been any different had it started sooner or later?

My husband and i dated before either of our divorces were yet final.  Both were long separations where divorce was inevitable, just a lot of tricky financial/legal things in working them out.  Neither of us was undecided about reconciliation and just "testing waters" or anything like that.  We didn’t date until the divorces were filed.    We dated for about a year and a half before we started living together, knew each other a little over 4 years before marrying.  We took our relationship very slow, as neither of us was in any hurry. We were actually one another’s main support system THROUGH each of our divorce finalizations, best friends sharing something we had in common and the feelings involved.  I don’t know if i’d RECOMMEND it this way or not, but it seemed to work for us.  After being "together" thru some of the toughest times in our lives (which divorce is), i figure if we could weather that we could weather just about anything.  An important point for us was that we both were supportive of one another’s relationship with our kids. A mistake i see people making sometimes is when they get into a new relationship, it’s like they think it’s going to make all the bad things go away in their life, and the relationship will heal all wounds and make life wonderful.  That’s unrealistic.  In spite of being so fortunate to share my life with the man i love, other stuff still happens.  Family conflicts, crises (plural of crisis?), illnesses, natural disasters, problems with our kids, etc… those things are still there whether we were single or remarried… I don’t think there’s any general rule that works.  

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Confusion said… 3) Don’t jump into another relationship right away. You may not realise it but you’ll be a basketcase for at least a year (probably two), especially if the relationship being severed was 5 years or longer. Not that I disagree with this statement, but I have seen couples that have had fulfilling relationships that lasted for long periods that were started months after a separation/divorce.    However, I do wonder what common mistakes are made by starting a relationship too soon?  And how do you know it’s really too soon unless you try?  And since all relationships are tricky as hell, how do you know it would or would not had been any different had it started sooner or later?

I’m probably not the right one to ask, but I’d say you’re making a mistake if it’s the relationship you want instead of the person you’re starting one with.  I think sometimes the idea of being with someone after a divorce is just so appealing that it takes over. Casey

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3) Don’t jump into another relationship right away. You may not realise it but you’ll be a basketcase for at least a year (probably two), especially if the relationship being severed was 5 years or longer. Not that I disagree with this statement, but I have seen couples that have had fulfilling relationships that lasted for long periods that were started months after a separation/divorce.    However, I do wonder what common mistakes are made by starting a relationship too soon? And how do you know it’s really too soon unless you try?  And since all relationships are tricky as hell, how do you know it would or would not had been any different had it started sooner or later?

I am now married to a woman who I began dating only a few mos. after my separation and had moved in with shortly after (6 mos) my divorce was final.  When I moved in with her, I was still attending a support group, and we were both aware that I still going through a recovery process.  We both understood that it was still a diffucult time for me.  We did not marry until 2 1/2 yrs after my divorce, and IMHO, that period was absolutely essential for me to deal with the open wounds of my divorce. Should we have waited longer to "shack up?"  Maybe.  But she had been divorced for 12 yrs, and it appeared, was still carrying more baggage than was I.  Fortunately, the baggage that I and my (new) wife still carry seems to match rather well.

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3) Don’t jump into another relationship right away. You may not realise it but you’ll be a basketcase for at least a year (probably two), especially if the relationship being severed was 5 years or longer.

Not that I disagree with this statement, but I have seen couples that have had fulfilling relationships that lasted for long periods that were started months after a separation/divorce.    However, I do wonder what common mistakes are made by starting a relationship too soon?  And how do you know it’s really too soon unless you try?  And since all relationships are tricky as hell, how do you know it would or would not had been any different had it started sooner or later?

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Holidays!, Having a rough time.

Question:

mine was the opposite my husband went off with another woman and i wanted to save my marriage took two years for me to come to terms and go forward with the divorce i now wonder why was i holding on

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know how you feel. This Christmas is really bad for me too. My wife went off with another man also, and I too thought it was only a phase our marriage was going through. But reality started setting in, and like you, the sadness and lonelyness set in. Try to keep busy, and worry about your daughter and yourself—–the wife you had is gone, just like mine.

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I lose 80 lbs in 3 months (that’s not a typo).  

Actually, that IS a typo… lost, not lose. Hehe. I slay me.

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I don’t know why I waited, or what I was waiting for, but my marriage was over, my wife cheated on me. I finally moved on. I guess the shock and disbelief was the culprits for me. I wasted precious time, when I could have been out there enjoying life, and perhaps met someone who was better suited for me. There just isn’t a reason for anyone, male or female, to allow themselves to be treated like a doormat by a cheater. Glad you moved on too Carrie.

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I don’t know why I waited, or what I was waiting for, but my marriage was over, my wife cheated on me. I finally moved on. I guess the shock and disbelief was the culprits for me.

It takes time to go over the shock. I discovered 27 months ago that my that time wife was cheating on me for at least 7 and half years. The shock was tremendous. My hair got white within 3 months. I got my self a new pair of boots and a guitar ( some shirt’s to ). I play again and walk the new beat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wasted precious time, when I could have been out there enjoying life, and perhaps met someone who was better suited for me. There just isn’t a reason for anyone, male or female, to allow themselves to be treated like a doormat by a cheater. Glad you moved on too Carrie.

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I don’t know why I waited, or what I was waiting for, but my marriage was over, my wife cheated on me. I finally moved on. I guess the shock and disbelief was the culprits for me. I wasted precious time, when I could have been out there enjoying life, and perhaps met someone who was better suited for me. There just isn’t a reason for anyone, male or female, to allow themselves to be treated like a doormat by a cheater. Glad you moved on too Carrie.

It really didn’t suprise me that my ex ran out and found someone right away. We already made the decision to get a divorce, but I thought she would take some time to heal and get over a 18 year marriage. But she did the same thing 18 years ago too when we were going out for 1 1/2 years and broke up. Should have walked away from it then but when she was with this guy I wanted her back.  What I know now is she is the type of person that can’t be by herself. All I know is both times it hurt, and this one hurt like hell. It still blows my mind that after that long with someone, that when a person makes up there mind that is over, there is no turning back. Martin

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Re: Holidays!, Having a rough time." I have to say I am truly astounded, and a bit surprised, at just how hard the holidays really are.    If I were a betting man, I’d guess more suicides occur at this time of the year, but I have no idea if that is really true or not. What bugs me is just HOW HARD it really is/was!   I say "was", cause I think XMAS eve, and XMAS day itself, are the toughest days of the year, with perhaps Thanksgiving taking a (reasonably close) second place. But maybe it’s just me.    Damn, it is hard….

Yes, this one caught me off guard. I couldn’t figure out why I was getting so emotional for NO apparrant reason, but was just start hurting and feeling the most depressed that I have been in my life. The other factor for me for the holidays is money in which I don’t have a lot of. Martin

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know why I waited, or what I was waiting for, but my marriage was over, my wife cheated on me. I finally moved on. I guess the shock and disbelief was the culprits for me. I wasted precious time, when I could have been out there enjoying life, and perhaps met someone who was better suited for me. There just isn’t a reason for anyone, male or female, to allow themselves to be treated like a doormat by a cheater. Glad you moved on too Carrie. It really didn’t suprise me that my ex ran out and found someone right away. We already made the decision to get a divorce, but I thought she would take some time to heal and get over a 18 year marriage. But she did the same thing 18 years ago too when we were going out for 1 1/2 years and broke up. Should have walked away from it then but when she was with this guy I wanted her back.  What I know now is she is the type of person that can’t be by herself. All I know is both times it hurt, and this one hurt like hell. It still blows my mind that after that long with someone, that when a person makes up there mind that is over, there is no turning back. Martin

Yup, I think it’s because we were married for so damn long, that the whole thing is just …. incomprehensible.    Or…..unfathomable.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know why I waited, or what I was waiting for, but my marriage was over, my wife cheated on me. I finally moved on. I guess the shock and disbelief was the culprits for me. I wasted precious time, when I could have been out there enjoying life, and perhaps met someone who was better suited for me. There just isn’t a reason for anyone, male or female, to allow themselves to be treated like a doormat by a cheater. Glad you moved on too Carrie. It really didn’t suprise me that my ex ran out and found someone right away. We already made the decision to get a divorce, but I thought she would take some time to heal and get over a 18 year marriage. But she did the same thing 18 years ago too when we were going out for 1 1/2 years and broke up. Should have walked away from it then but when she was with this guy I wanted her back.  What I know now is she is the type of person that can’t be by herself. All I know is both times it hurt, and this one hurt like hell. It still blows my mind that after that long with someone, that when a person makes up there mind that is over, there is no turning back. Martin

It is amazing how some people can turn and off their emotions like a switch.  My ex. can do that.  15 years of marriage do the drain.  Oh well, got through Christmas, now New Year’s is next.  Then the Holidays will be done for yet another year. Jeff

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know why I waited, or what I was waiting for, but my marriage was over, my wife cheated on me. I finally moved on. I guess the shock and disbelief was the culprits for me. I wasted precious time, when I could have been out there enjoying life, and perhaps met someone who was better suited for me. There just isn’t a reason for anyone, male or female, to allow themselves to be treated like a doormat by a cheater. Glad you moved on too Carrie. It really didn’t suprise me that my ex ran out and found someone right away. We already made the decision to get a divorce, but I thought she would take some time to heal and get over a 18 year marriage. But she did the same thing 18 years ago too when we were going out for 1 1/2 years and broke up. Should have walked away from it then but when she was with this guy I wanted her back.  What I know now is she is the type of person that can’t be by herself. All I know is both times it hurt, and this one hurt like hell. It still blows my mind that after that long with someone, that when a person makes up there mind that is over, there is no turning back. Martin It is amazing how some people can turn and off their emotions like a switch.  My ex. can do that.  15 years of marriage do the drain.  Oh well, got through Christmas, now New Year’s is next.  Then the Holidays will be done for yet another year. Jeff

Or what’s been happening "behind the scenes" is that they have been processing this over the past few years, and are now done with it.    We just didn’t realize it….

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know why I waited, or what I was waiting for, but my marriage was over, my wife cheated on me. I finally moved on. I guess the shock and disbelief was the culprits for me. I wasted precious time, when I could have been out there enjoying life, and perhaps met someone who was better suited for me. There just isn’t a reason for anyone, male or female, to allow themselves to be treated like a doormat by a cheater. Glad you moved on too Carrie. It really didn’t suprise me that my ex ran out and found someone right away. We already made the decision to get a divorce, but I thought she would take some time to heal and get over a 18 year marriage. But she did the same thing 18 years ago too when we were going out for 1 1/2 years and broke up. Should have walked away from it then but when she was with this guy I wanted her back.  What I know now is she is the type of person that can’t be by herself. All I know is both times it hurt, and this one hurt like hell. It still blows my mind that after that long with someone, that when a person makes up there mind that is over, there is no turning back. Martin It is amazing how some people can turn and off their emotions like a switch.  My ex. can do that.  15 years of marriage do the drain.  Oh well, got through Christmas, now New Year’s is next.  Then the Holidays will be done for yet another year. Jeff Or what’s been happening "behind the scenes" is that they have been processing this over the past few years, and are now done with it.    We just didn’t realize it….

How could they make love without being in love? And this over years? Disgusting!

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I’ve been lucky, I guess, I’ve had my son staying here with me since Christmas Day afternoon. I got through Christmas Eve ok because I went to church and sang in the choir and played in the handbell choir; that always gets those endorphins going pretty good. However, I must say that there is nothing more depressing your first Christmas alone than having to drive to your former home with your son twice a day and pick up the newspaper and the mail and feed the dog and cat and water the Christmas tree (OK, the son does all that, but I have to take him there and I usually pay homage to my old friend the cat). I cannot tell you how awful it is to go in there and see the Christmas decorations, not exactly like they used to be (especially since I got my half of them), but evocative of the season nonetheless and know that you are so much not a part of any of it. I am seriously considering saying "no" when I get asked to do the same over spring break when the ex and the son go to Florida to visit his relatives. It is just flat too damn depressing and the more I go over there, the worse it gets. By the time my ex gets back Tuesday afternoon, I may be off the deep end. Of course, it has been lovely having my son here for a whole week. Longest visit we’ve had since I moved out last January. And we haven’t killed each other, nor even gotten on each other’s nerves yet! What a deal. — Barbara Sz. "Re: Holidays!, Having a rough time." I have to say I am truly astounded, and a bit surprised, at just how hard the holidays really are.    If I were a betting man, I’d guess more

suicides occur at this time of the year, but I have no idea if that is really true or not. What bugs me is just HOW HARD it really is/was!   I say "was", cause I think XMAS eve, and XMAS day itself, are the toughest days of the year, with perhaps Thanksgiving taking a (reasonably close) second place. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But maybe it’s just me.    Damn, it is hard….

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However, I must say that there is nothing more depressing your first Christmas alone than having to drive to your former home with your son twice a day and pick up the newspaper and the mail and feed the dog and cat and water the Christmas tree (OK, the son does all that, but I have to take him there and I usually pay homage to my old friend the cat). I cannot tell you how awful it is to go in there and see the Christmas decorations, not exactly like they used to be (especially since I got my half of them), but evocative of the season nonetheless and know that you are so much not a part of any of it.

I go to my former home quite often, a couple times a week at least.  It used to bother me a lot more than it does now.   I can sit there now, remembering how it was "my" home too, without feeling bad or resentful..  I think it just took time.

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I’ve been lucky, I guess, I’ve had my son staying here with me since Christmas Day afternoon. I got through Christmas Eve ok because I went to church and sang in the choir and played in the handbell choir; that always gets those endorphins going pretty good.

I bet that helps! However, I must say that there is nothing more depressing your first Christmas alone than having to drive to your former home with your son twice a day and pick up the newspaper and the mail and feed the dog and cat and water the Christmas tree (OK, the son does all that, but I have to take him there and I usually pay homage to my old friend the cat). I cannot tell you how awful it is to go in there and see the Christmas decorations, not exactly like they used to be (especially since I got my half of them), but evocative of the season nonetheless and know that you are so much not a part of any of it.

Yeah, I know, I know.     BTDT – more below… I am seriously considering saying "no" when I get asked to do the same over spring break when the ex and the son go to Florida to visit his relatives. It is just flat too damn depressing and the more I go over there, the worse it gets. By the time my ex gets back Tuesday afternoon, I may be off the deep end.

You probably ought to say "no", if you are getting this depressed about it, Barb.   And you have a perfect right to say no!    So don’t feel guilty! I’ve done something similar:  go to the house, and pick up her mail and the newspaper every day while she was on vacation for a week or two.    It finally reached the last straw when she wanted me to drive her to the airport, and drop her off (to save the parking fees for a week’s vacation).    She wanted me to come over and do this at like 7 am, and I just had to say "no", and I got a bit of dirty looks in return.    I mean, we do have a reasonably amicable relationship, but there are limits.   And I’m just finding mine (and so is she).    It’s still a bit of a confusing soup for both of us.   I don’t really fault her, though.   It’s just a bit tough, on occasion, and it is somewhat "new ground" for both of us.    But we have a lovely 19 year old daughter that helps to keep us together, in some ways. Of course, it has been lovely having my son here for a whole week. Longest visit we’ve had since I moved out last January. And we haven’t killed each other, nor even gotten on each other’s nerves yet! What a deal. — Barbara Sz.

Now that part sounds good! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Re: Holidays!, Having a rough time." I have to say I am truly astounded, and a bit surprised, at just how hard the holidays really are.    If I were a betting man, I’d guess more suicides occur at this time of the year, but I have no idea if that is really true or not. What bugs me is just HOW HARD it really is/was!   I say "was", cause I think XMAS eve, and XMAS day itself, are the toughest days of the year, with perhaps Thanksgiving taking a (reasonably close) second place. But maybe it’s just me.    Damn, it is hard….

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I thought I was going to go out and start dating, but there is no way. I am to mentally messed up to even  to consider that at this point.

Dating, and having women appreciate you, feels great. It makes you feel "lovable" again. But when things don’t work out, it is a much harder thing to deal with – when you’ve still got all this divorce pain going on too. It can crush you. Put too many of those crushing disappointments on top of this divorce pain, and things get scary. We do need to feel lovable. It’s hard after we’ve been devastated by our ex’s.  But there are other ways. Church, friends, family, joining a small class or special interest group for something you really enjoy doing (hiking, photography, painting, etc.).  It takes several non-lover type friends combined to help us believe that we’re lovable, if our ex took that confidence away from us, but friends and associates are less likely to walk out on us and leave us crushed again, so they are much safer relationships to pursue while we reestablish our perception about who we are, what our value is. However, if you have this self-value thing already worked out, then you probably aren’t at risk for the rebound thing at all Janie — "The deepest principle in human nature is the craving to be appreciated."  –William James

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"Re: Holidays!, Having a rough time." I have to say I am truly astounded, and a bit surprised, at just how hard the holidays really are.    If I were a betting man, I’d guess more suicides occur at this time of the year, but I have no idea if that is really true or not. What bugs me is just HOW HARD it really is/was!   I say "was", cause I think XMAS eve, and XMAS day itself, are the toughest days of the year, with perhaps Thanksgiving taking a (reasonably close) second place. But maybe it’s just me.    Damn, it is hard….

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"Re: Holidays!, Having a rough time." I have to say I am truly astounded, and a bit surprised, at just how hard the holidays really are.    If I were a betting man, I’d guess more suicides occur at this time of the year, but I have no idea if that is really true or not. What bugs me is just HOW HARD it really is/was!   I say "was", cause I think XMAS eve, and XMAS day itself, are the toughest days of the year, with perhaps Thanksgiving taking a (reasonably close) second place. But maybe it’s just me.    Damn, it is hard….

XMAS eve and day are to much work and to much eating. For what? To exchange some presents? I will give 50 Euro to each of my boys and will pay a bill of my oldest son. Merry Christmas to you Bill. You are not the only one alone. It’s only 2 days. Enjoy the quietness.

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The holidays have been surprisingly tough on me too. I was up the other night til 6am, battling mental images of my ex-wife with her boyfriend. It’s incredibly hard to deal with. Sometimes I wish I had been killed outright instead of this incredibly slow, inescapable emotional anguish and betrayal. I was "lucky" to even be married to someone as beautiful as my ex, but it’s agonising seeing how her boyfriend falls all over himself trying to make her happy. When my wife left me for another man, we were in debt up to our eyeballs (I had to break out the snorkel lol). I couldn’t take $5 out of the bank. I ate peanut butter for 2 weeks until I landed some new credit cards. I lose 80 lbs in 3 months (that’s not a typo). There was a rumour circulating around work that I had AIDS because it looked like I was dying. I had to sell my house, lost the car to my ex (who also wouldn’t give me access to my 3 daughters). I lost my cool and beat up her boyfriend and served time in jail for it. A few months later, after going bankrupt, I had to sell everything I had and was evicted from my apartment because I got injured and my companies benifit plan would not pay me. I ended up in a room, much like you, but since have gotten first and last for an apartment. I tell you, when you get that low, even your "friends" and family don’t want to be around you. It was like I had leprosy, or that my bad luck was contagious. I contemplated suicide regularly, but I knew I couldn’t. I had found through pondering and prayer that Jesus Christ does live, and it gave me the strength to settle in and whether the storm. Anyway, I still don’t have a phone, internet access (using either the libraries or parents) or tv (but I don’t miss that at all) but I’ll always survive. Obviously, what I’ve described is a brief overview of the last 2+ years (there was more ugliness and broken bones, but I digress), but the fact is that we ultimately benifit from adversity. Like bodybuilding, we need resistance in our lives to grow. The heavier the weights, and the harder we fight to lift those weights, the stronger we get. Sure I’m sore after a really good workout, but in the end I’ll be bigger and better than I ever was. Life is no different. Try to keep this in mind as you struggle through these difficult times. You will be stronger and better because of this, but you need to suffer with as much dignity and patience as you can muster. God bless you!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I have been divorced a few months now, and I am really in a bad way here. My emotions have been running out of control with sadness that my marriage of 18 years that I pretty much messed up is over.  A couple of nights ago, I was so bad I thought I was having a anxiety attack or nervous breakdown.  I almost went to emergency to maybe get some sedative or something. This is the first Christmas that I am spending by myself. I have a eleven year old daughter who I am contact with a few days of week, but this doesn’t fill the isolation that I have been feeling. I didn’t think it was going to be this rough. My wife and daughter is in the house that we bought when we were married. She already has a new boyfriend. She is totally detached from me now. Even though with all the fighting that we have had in past and we made a decision that it was best that we end it, I thought for some reason we might get back together. Wrong! She is the kind of woman, when it’s over, it’s over for good. She moves on. I really didn’t want to get the divorce at first. I thought maybe we should seperate for awhile, but she had other ideas. She ran into a old friend and that was it. She is off and running with this guy. The depression is overwelming and I really don’t have anyone to talk to about this.  I am right now living in a little  room that I am renting. It is the most terrible living situation that I have ever lived in. I am going to talk to someone tommorow about a studio, but as  you all know, the rents out here in CA. are very, very high. I work two jobs to try to keep my kid from being homeless. Because she is making only about $300.00 per week.  Even though, we have it settled with the courts for child support in which  I pay $500.00 for my daughter, it still isn’t enough to cover the cost of the room that I have to rent and the mortgage on the house. As a matter of fact, the house is in foreclosure because we are five months late on payments. We are going in Monday to file for a Chapter 13 for the second time in two years to buy some time. She says she has a freind that is going to rent one of the rooms out so this might work. I have to do something because it’s already on our credit report about the late payments. All I have been doing is crying like a little kid. It just comes out of nowhere. And believe me, I am not one that show his emotions that much.  I suspect is something to do with holidays, but I think it’s starting to catch up with me that I am lonely. And I don’t like it. I have all the thoughts about how I should have tried harder to make the marriage work and mabe it wouldn’t have had to come this point, but i don’t know.  I have to accept the fact that it’s going to be like this for maybe a long time. So today on Christmas I am spending a few hours with my kid and off to maybe a movie this afternoon and off to work tonight. Just had to vent. Sorry I took up so much space but this has be a bitch. later, Martin

Response:

Martin, this is a major trauma that you are going through, and acute clinical depression or anxiety is not at all unusual.  See a doc and get some meds.  Seriously, its what I did when I also "lost" an 18yr marriage.  Most communities have a mental health agency or suicide-and-crisis intervention center that can refer you to a low-cost counselor or support group.  I attended a support group and a rebuilding program sponsored by a local church (it was non-denominational).  Help is available if you look for it.

I thought I was going to go out and start dating, but there is no way. I am to mentally messed up to even  to consider that at this point. Today was another bad day. After spending the morning with my daughter, my newly ex had to come back to the house. Were not supposed to be in the house at the same time. Nor do I want to. After that I went to movies before I had to go to work and when I got out of the movies I broke down. I keep getting this picture in my head when things were good and how happy my daughter was now and how this is really screwed her up. I really feel responsible for most of the mess. I am on my way over to Kaiser tommorow to see if there are any support groups that I can attend. I have had enough of this. As for the house:  If she cannot buy you out, then you need to sell it or have a court order that it be sold. With a finite incomes, you both need to do some downsizing.  Sacrifices have to be made here, and trying to keep the house is only asking for more trouble down the road.  [Rog']

I agree. thanks, Martin

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The depression is overwelming and I really don’t have anyone to talk to about this. You can talk here. Thanks, and I need to start talking about this and venting this. The only people  that I get to talk to about this is the people I work this, and frankly I think there getting tired of listening to it. I am going over to Kaiser tommorow to see if they have any divorce support groups or at least try to set a appointment up with a counsler. I mean this is sick! What kind of person won’t let anyone get close to them in a 18 year marriage and then doesn’t want to be alone. It wasn’t bad at first, but I realized that I don’t want to be alone. I need people.

I went to a divorce support group to in the beginning. You need to talk to people. The first 3 month’s were hell for me and if they would have not been people who listen to me i don’t know how i would have pulled thru. I got some help in this group and from some people in my town i expected the least to help. All the " togetherness " friends  we had are no friends no more. So i guess you will have to make some new friends to. http://www.altsupportdivorce.org and my page at: http://koti.mbnet.fi/xenos/home_page/divorce.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am right now living in a little  room that I am renting. It is the most terrible living situation that I have ever lived in. I am going to talk to someone tommorow about a studio, but as  you all know, the rents out here in CA. are very, very high. I work two jobs to try to keep my kid from being homeless. Because she is making only about $300.00 per week.  Even though, we have it settled with the courts for child support in which  I pay $500.00 for my daughter, I get 120 Euro from my ex. No problem. it still isn’t enough to cover the cost of the room that I have to rent and the mortgage on the house. You pay for a house you don’t live in? As a matter of fact, the house is in foreclosure because we are five months late on payments. There is no " we " anymore. Take care of your own skin. I am really worried about my daughter. If it was just her, I could care where she laid her head at night time. But I really don’t want to put my daughter thru the horror of having the sherrifs come knocking on the door with a eviction notice. But your right, I have to take care of my housing situation first. Martin

You will be riding now a roller-coaster thru hell but there are people here who are willing to help. Others have been there where you are now. They managed to pull thru and can give help and advice to you. Welcome.

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I know how you feel. This Christmas is really bad for me too. My wife went off with another man also, and I too thought it was only a phase our marriage was going through. But reality started setting in, and like you, the sadness and lonelyness set in. Try to keep busy, and worry about your daughter and yourself—–the wife you had is gone, just like mine.

 I broke down the other night to her, and I see this was probably the wrong thing to do. I see now that she feels nothing for me anymore. She has move on to the next guy. This is a person she knew before we got married. I never asked anything about him before, but that doesn’t matter now. I just don’t want to be a sucker here. Martin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

The depression is overwelming and I really don’t have anyone to talk to about this. You can talk here.

Thanks, and I need to start talking about this and venting this. The only people  that I get to talk to about this is the people I work this, and frankly I think there getting tired of listening to it. I am going over to Kaiser tommorow to see if they have any divorce support groups or at least try to set a appointment up with a counsler. I mean this is sick! What kind of person won’t let anyone get close to them in a 18 year marriage and then doesn’t want to be alone. It wasn’t bad at first, but I realized that I don’t want to be alone. I need people. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I am right now living in a little  room that I am renting. It is the most terrible living situation that I have ever lived in. I am going to talk to someone tommorow about a studio, but as  you all know, the rents out here in CA. are very, very high. I work two jobs to try to keep my kid from being homeless. Because she is making only about $300.00 per week.  Even though, we have it settled with the courts for child support in which  I pay $500.00 for my daughter, I get 120 Euro from my ex. No problem. it still isn’t enough to cover the cost of the room that I have to rent and the mortgage on the house. You pay for a house you don’t live in? As a matter of fact, the house is in foreclosure because we are five months late on payments. There is no " we " anymore. Take care of your own skin.

I am really worried about my daughter. If it was just her, I could care where she laid her head at night time. But I really don’t want to put my daughter thru the horror of having the sherrifs come knocking on the door with a eviction notice. But your right, I have to take care of my housing situation first. Martin

Response:

Martin, this is a major trauma that you are going through, and acute clinical depression or anxiety is not at all unusual.  See a doc and get some meds.  Seriously, its what I did when I also "lost" an 18yr marriage.  Most communities have a mental health agency or suicide-and-crisis intervention center that can refer you to a low-cost counselor or support group.  I attended a support group and a rebuilding program sponsored by a local church (it was non-denominational).  Help is available if you look for it. As for the house:  If she cannot buy you out, then you need to sell it or have a court order that it be sold. With a finite incomes, you both need to do some downsizing.  Sacrifices have to be made here, and trying to keep the house is only asking for more trouble down the road.  [Rog'] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been divorced a few months now, and I am really in a bad way here. My emotions have been running out of control with sadness that my marriage of 18 years that I pretty much messed up is over.  A couple of nights ago, I was so bad I thought I was having a anxiety attack or nervous breakdown. I almost went to emergency to maybe get some sedative or something.  <snip The depression is overwelming and I really don’t have anyone to talk to about this.  I am right now living in a little room that I am renting. It is the most terrible living situation that I have ever lived in. <snip All I have been doing is crying like a little kid. It just comes out of nowhere. And believe me, I am not one that show his emotions that much.  I suspect is something to do with holidays, but I think it’s starting to catch up with me that I am lonely. And I don’t like it. I have all the thoughts about how I should have tried harder to make the marriage work and mabe it wouldn’t have had to come this point, but i don’t know.  I have to accept the fact that it’s going to be like this for maybe a long time. <snip

Response:

Hi, I have been divorced a few months now, and I am really in a bad way here. My emotions have been running out of control with sadness that my marriage of 18 years that I pretty much messed up is over.  A couple of nights ago, I was so bad I thought I was having a anxiety attack or nervous breakdown.  I almost went to emergency to maybe get some sedative or something. This is the first Christmas that I am spending by myself. I have a eleven year old daughter who I am contact with a few days of week, but this doesn’t fill the isolation that I have been feeling. I didn’t think it was going to be this rough. My wife and daughter is in the house that we bought when we were married. She already has a new boyfriend. She is totally detached from me now. Even though with all the fighting that we have had in past and we made a decision that it was best that we end it, I thought for some reason we might get back together. Wrong! She is the kind of woman, when it’s over, it’s over for good. She moves on. I really didn’t want to get the divorce at first. I thought maybe we should seperate for awhile, but she had other ideas. She ran into a old friend and that was it. She is off and running with this guy. The depression is overwelming and I really don’t have anyone to talk to about this.  I am right now living in a little  room that I am renting. It is the most terrible living situation that I have ever lived in. I am going to talk to someone tommorow about a studio, but as  you all know, the rents out here in CA. are very, very high. I work two jobs to try to keep my kid from being homeless. Because she is making only about $300.00 per week.  Even though, we have it settled with the courts for child support in which  I pay $500.00 for my daughter, it still isn’t enough to cover the cost of the room that I have to rent and the mortgage on the house. As a matter of fact, the house is in foreclosure because we are five months late on payments. We are going in Monday to file for a Chapter 13 for the second time in two years to buy some time. She says she has a freind that is going to rent one of the rooms out so this might work. I have to do something because it’s already on our credit report about the late payments. All I have been doing is crying like a little kid. It just comes out of nowhere. And believe me, I am not one that show his emotions that much.  I suspect is something to do with holidays, but I think it’s starting to catch up with me that I am lonely. And I don’t like it. I have all the thoughts about how I should have tried harder to make the marriage work and mabe it wouldn’t have had to come this point, but i don’t know.  I have to accept the fact that it’s going to be like this for maybe a long time. So today on Christmas I am spending a few hours with my kid and off to maybe a movie this afternoon and off to work tonight. Just had to vent. Sorry I took up so much space but this has be a bitch. later, Martin

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I have been divorced a few months now, and I am really in a bad way here. My emotions have been running out of control with sadness that my marriage of 18 years that I pretty much messed up is over.  A couple of nights ago, I was so bad I thought I was having a anxiety attack or nervous breakdown.  I almost went to emergency to maybe get some sedative or something. This is the first Christmas that I am spending by myself. I have a eleven year old daughter who I am contact with a few days of week, but this doesn’t fill the isolation that I have been feeling. I didn’t think it was going to be this rough. My wife and daughter is in the house that we bought when we were married. She already has a new boyfriend. She is totally detached from me now. Even though with all the fighting that we have had in past and we made a decision that it was best that we end it, I thought for some reason we might get back together. Wrong! She is the kind of woman, when it’s over, it’s over for good. She moves on. I really didn’t want to get the divorce at first. I thought maybe we should seperate for awhile, but she had other ideas. She ran into a old friend and that was it. She is off and running with this guy. The depression is overwelming and I really don’t have anyone to talk to about this.

You can talk here.  I am right now living in a little  room that I am renting. It is the most terrible living situation that I have ever lived in. I am going to talk to someone tommorow about a studio, but as  you all know, the rents out here in CA. are very, very high. I work two jobs to try to keep my kid from being homeless. Because she is making only about $300.00 per week.  Even though, we have it settled with the courts for child support in which  I pay $500.00 for my daughter,

I get 120 Euro from my ex. No problem. it still isn’t enough to cover the cost of the room that I have to rent and the mortgage on the house.

You pay for a house you don’t live in? As a matter of fact, the house is in foreclosure because we are five months late on payments.

There is no " we " anymore. Take care of your own skin. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are going in Monday to file for a Chapter 13 for the second time in two years to buy some time. She says she has a freind that is going to rent one of the rooms out so this might work. I have to do something because it’s already on our credit report about the late payments. All I have been doing is crying like a little kid. It just comes out of nowhere. And believe me, I am not one that show his emotions that much.  I suspect is something to do with holidays, but I think it’s starting to catch up with me that I am lonely. And I don’t like it. I have all the thoughts about how I should have tried harder to make the marriage work and mabe it wouldn’t have had to come this point, but i don’t know.  I have to accept the fact that it’s going to be like this for maybe a long time. So today on Christmas I am spending a few hours with my kid and off to maybe a movie this afternoon and off to work tonight. Just had to vent. Sorry I took up so much space but this has be a bitch. later, Martin

Only you and your daughter matters. Nothing else. The wife is gone.

Response:

I know how you feel. This Christmas is really bad for me too. My wife went off with another man also, and I too thought it was only a phase our marriage was going through. But reality started setting in, and like you, the sadness and lonelyness set in. Try to keep busy, and worry about your daughter and yourself—–the wife you had is gone, just like mine.

Response:

Just Curious…….

Question:

    Geez, whatta loser! You couldn’t buy a clue! You are a worthless piece of shit! If you had half a brain you’d be lonely! If you had a brain you’d take it out and play with it! You are a waste of life, a complete waste of skin! Did you’re mother have any kids that lived? When you went to school, was it on a long bus or a short one. I’ve seen idiots, but you take the prize!

awww John, tell us how you really feel!  ROFL

Response:

    Do you *really* want that? I was being nice.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Geez, whatta loser! You couldn’t buy a clue! You are a worthless piece of shit! If you had half a brain you’d be lonely! If you had a brain you’d take it out and play with it! You are a waste of life, a complete waste of skin! Did you’re mother have any kids that lived? When you went to school, was it on a long bus or a short one. I’ve seen idiots, but you take the prize! awww John, tell us how you really feel!  ROFL

Response:

Duh!  Are you kidding.  I’m on anti-depressants.  I also felt like I should sign myself into the psych. ward when this first started because I seriously thought I was losing it.  And thats the truth.  I’m not even being sarcastic.

I understand. i spent three nights there, on two separate visits.  One visit before i moved out, the other just after.  It was not an easy time.   and i wouldn’t recommend going to one of those places.  it was such a nightmare i’ve blotted most of it out.  just remember that it happened, and it was bad.   i highly recommend individual counseling to anyone going thru divorce.  

Response:

Four days after my wife left me I started counseling.  That was two years ago.  Two independent questionnaires by my counselor and my doctor indicated I have been experiencing mild depression.  I’ve been on 10 mg/day of Lexapro for four months.  Both the counseling and the Lexapro have been very helpful to me. Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone else out there ever had to seek counseling with medication due to the news of your spouse wanting a divorce? I have heard a few stories about how some men and women were hurt very bad emotionally, that they had to get counseling to deal wth the shock, pain and sadness. Some were even given medication to help them to get through it. The worse cases were where spouse "A" finds out about spouse "B" is having an affair, and also spouse "A" finds out that spouse "B" also wants a divorce. These cases were the most devastating. Has anyone else been through the counseling, and, had to take medication to get through it?

Response:

… I haven’t and don’t take any med’s ….. and it’s the toughest thing I have had to endure …. and I am not a light weight … so to speak Don’t take your self lightly …. if it’s someone else … get them help …. please " T "

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is not unusual. The situation is a major emotional trauma (akin to the death of a parent or child), for which medication and counseling are often prescribed.  One of the first things I did, after moving our, was see my doc who prescribed it… and it helped me stay (relatively) sane.  [Rog'] Has anyone else out there ever had to seek counseling with medication due to the news of your spouse wanting a divorce? I have heard a few stories about how some men and women were hurt very bad emotionally, that they had to get counseling to deal wth the shock, pain and sadness. Some were even given medication to help them to get through it. The worse cases were where spouse "A" finds out about spouse "B" is having an affair, and also spouse "A" finds out that spouse "B" also wants a divorce. These cases were the most devastating. Has anyone else been through the counseling, and, had to take medication to get through it?

Response:

Four days after my wife left me I started counseling.  That was two years ago.  Two independent questionnaires by my counselor and my doctor indicated I have been experiencing mild depression.  I’ve been on 10 mg/day of Lexapro for four months.  Both the counseling and the Lexapro have been very helpful to me. Scott

What kind of man becomes a pill popping addict cause of a useless wife? You should be happy about your new freedom. The journey starts now. — He found a place In his mind And slammed the door.

Response:

Hey Reborn, Why don’t you reply to the original poster.  I could care less about your problems.  Be a grown-up and use your real name and real e-mail address, too. Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Four days after my wife left me I started counseling.  That was two years ago.  Two independent questionnaires by my counselor and my doctor indicated I have been experiencing mild depression.  I’ve been on 10 mg/day of Lexapro for four months.  Both the counseling and the Lexapro have been very helpful to me. Scott What kind of man becomes a pill popping addict cause of a useless wife? You should be happy about your new freedom. The journey starts now. — He found a place In his mind And slammed the door.

Response:

What kind of man becomes a pill popping addict cause of a useless wife? You should be happy about your new freedom. The journey starts now. — He found a place In his mind And slammed the door.

Well, at least your tagline is appropriate. Lauri in WA I like my email spamless

Response:

Hey Reborn, Why don’t you reply to the original poster.  I could care less about your problems.  Be a grown-up and use your real name and real e-mail address, too. Scott

Wow! All those pills and a pathetic wife sure brought out a lot of anger. Let’s just leave Scott alone and maybe his problems will go away, like his humor has! — He found a place In his mind And slammed the door.

Response:

What kind of man becomes a pill popping addict cause of a useless wife? You should be happy about your new freedom. The journey starts now. — He found a place In his mind And slammed the door. Well, at least your tagline is appropriate. Lauri in WA

You are full of fun, I can tell. Why do divorced obsessed people bottle up so much hatred. — He found a place In his mind And slammed the door.

Response:

We are obscenely outdated in such a critical care model.

This society is obscenely outdated.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What kind of man becomes a pill popping addict cause of a useless wife? You should be happy about your new freedom. The journey starts now. — He found a place In his mind And slammed the door. Well, at least your tagline is appropriate. Lauri in WA You are full of fun, I can tell. Why do divorced obsessed people bottle up so much hatred.

This is a *divorce* support group.   What do you expect?    Have you ever traveled the road?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Duh!  Are you kidding.  I’m on anti-depressants.  I also felt like I should sign myself into the psych. ward when this first started because I seriously thought I was losing it.  And thats the truth.  I’m not even being sarcastic. I understand. i spent three nights there, on two separate visits.  One visit before i moved out, the other just after. It was not an easy time.   and i wouldn’t recommend going to one of those places.  it was such a nightmare i’ve blotted most of it out.  just remember that it happened, and it was bad.   No shit – there are few more traumatic places in the world to be, than locked up in a psych ward. Not all are exactly "…Cuckoo’s Nest" caliber, but many still are – and all that I’ve ever seen come close in the way that the staff demean and disrespect the patients. It’s sad really – that a person is seeking out help and comfort, and is treated with disrespect, locked up (hell they signed themselves in, and by law can sign themselves out – why the locked doors??), stripped of their clothing and dignity and freedom. It is surely enough to prevent people from ever reaching out for help again in their lives.  I’d be interested in seeing the numbers of people who have committed suicide after seeking out help in such a place. We are obscenely outdated in such a critical care model.

Especially when you agree to be admitted to help with malnutrition/depression and they strip-search you, take away all your belongings, won’t let you call your kids, and then won’t allow you to have anything to eat unless you sit at the table with some real scary people.  NEVER agree to accept that kind of "help"…  There’s nothing like saying "i don’t belong here" and having them nod their heads and smile and say "yes, now take your medication"

Response:

reborn rolla said for all posterity… What kind of man becomes a pill popping addict cause of a useless wife? You should be happy about your new freedom. The journey starts now. Well, at least your tagline is appropriate. You are full of fun, I can tell. Why do divorced obsessed people bottle up so much hatred.

I dunno, but we like to take it out on people like you.   Be afraid… be very afraid. Casey I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol.

Response:

Thomas Avnod said for all posterity… Has anyone else out there ever had to seek counseling with medication due to the news of your spouse wanting a divorce?

No way. I have heard a few stories about how some men and women were hurt very bad emotionally, that they had to get counseling to deal wth the shock, pain and sadness. Some were even given medication to help them to get through it.

I’m curious about where you heard "these stories". The worse cases were where spouse "A" finds out about spouse "B" is having an affair, and also spouse "A" finds out that spouse "B" also wants a divorce. These cases were the most devastating.

Really? Has anyone else been through the counseling, and, had to take medication to get through it?

No.  No one has has done that. Just curious… why do you ask? Casey I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol.

Response:

‘reborn’ not all bottled their hatred, infact some couldn’t find those feelings to help them move on more quickly (even if it wasn’t their fault).  It is those who can’t hate/disgusted with their partner for causing miseries to them who needed help desperately.  I think if u can hit the ‘hatre’ plane, u r well on the recovery – don’t u agree?

Response:

Tom: I am into this horror 5 weeks now if it was not for my Dr. I think I wouldn’t have made it. He put me on 25mg of PaxilCR a continuos release med that takes about a few weeks and I promise you will feel much much better to make up for the lag in response of this medication he backed it up with a quick acting drug called Lozapam works almost immediately and to get some sleep which was impossible he prescribed for 2 weeks Trazodone it also worked very well. I am now able to make rational decisions feel better but have lost 29 pounds in 5 weeks just no appetite. Until one goes through a nightmare like each of us here has you just cannot explain the feelings which are many more times worse than the death of a loved one it is the most difficult time of my life at least for me. I was what I thought happily married for 35 years just turned 63 and expecting my first grandchild in 3 weeks great timing huh!!!! Stay on this NG you will find great support and stories that can be worse than yours even though it doesn’t seem possible Barry Panama City Florida Keep talking go to a large bookstore and read everything in the personal growth section on divorce and related items you will learn a lot on what  to expect and how to deal with the problems that will for some time come up stay in touch with all here and get out of your house for several hours a day and try to be among people…..Please excuse my typing and the poor grammar and punctuation I just don’t have the patience to care about correctness right now content is more important Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone else out there ever had to seek counseling with medication due to the news of your spouse wanting a divorce? I have heard a few stories about how some men and women were hurt very bad emotionally, that they had to get counseling to deal wth the shock, pain and sadness. Some were even given medication to help them to get through it. The worse cases were where spouse "A" finds out about spouse "B" is having an affair, and also spouse "A" finds out that spouse "B" also wants a divorce. These cases were the most devastating. Has anyone else been through the counseling, and, had to take medication to get through it?

Response:

Thanks for all the responses. I have been going through hell for about 4 months now after finding out my wife of 9 years was having an affair. Then I automatically said I wanted a divorce. One of my co-workers said the same thing happened to him,-same situation as mine, but he was married for 14 years. He did get counseling and medcation, because he too thought he was going to "loose it." The first month I felt like I did loose it. Thankfully my two kids are always there for me, and I for them. I am considering counseling, but I’m not sure about the medication part. I guess when the full reality of the situation sets in, I might consider some mild form of medication. I do know my nerves are a wreck, and I’m still shocked and sad over this current change of events. And yes, I still live under the same roof as my wife and kids. She still goes out on weekends with her other man, and stays out all night. Back in August she stated that she wanted to be her own person, and that she needed space. She also said that we should separate for awhile. I agreed and moved to another area for three months. I have since moved back into our home. I suspected an affair all along——and my home has become a house of pain and a living hell. Sorry for the long response, but I had to let it out. I guess the divorce is just around the corner.  

Response:

    Geez, whatta loser! You couldn’t buy a clue! You are a worthless piece of shit! If you had half a brain you’d be lonely! If you had a brain you’d take it out and play with it! You are a waste of life, a complete waste of skin! Did you’re mother have any kids that lived? When you went to school, was it on a long bus or a short one. I’ve seen idiots, but you take the prize!     What difference should it make to you if someone has to take antidepressants to get over the loss of a very meaningful and significant part of their life. If you have to ask questions such as you have, or make comments as you have, then you obviously NEVER had a relationship with anyone in your life. Sure, you may say you did, but you apparently have deluded yourself. You are pathetic. I pity you.     Now, go away and never come back, you scum sucking spawn of a bottom feeder. GIT!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What kind of man becomes a pill popping addict cause of a useless wife? You should be happy about your new freedom. The journey starts now. — He found a place In his mind And slammed the door. Well, at least your tagline is appropriate. Lauri in WA You are full of fun, I can tell. Why do divorced obsessed people bottle up so much hatred. — He found a place In his mind And slammed the door.

Response:

    One more piece of advice. Get to a CoDependents Anonymous meeting. While you don’t feel you are codependent, the nature of marriage itself lends to that very description. I think you will find it very liberating, and you may find a few things out about yourself that you probably hadn’t considered before.     CODA is listed in just about every major city phone book. Do yourself a favor and look them up. You may find you don’t need them, but don’t deny yourself the introduction and support available. I think you will find a lot of divorced people there with similar issues.     Good luck.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for all the responses. I have been going through hell for about 4 months now after finding out my wife of 9 years was having an affair. Then I automatically said I wanted a divorce. One of my co-workers said the same thing happened to him,-same situation as mine, but he was married for 14 years. He did get counseling and medcation, because he too thought he was going to "loose it." The first month I felt like I did loose it. Thankfully my two kids are always there for me, and I for them. I am considering counseling, but I’m not sure about the medication part. I guess when the full reality of the situation sets in, I might consider some mild form of medication. I do know my nerves are a wreck, and I’m still shocked and sad over this current change of events. And yes, I still live under the same roof as my wife and kids. She still goes out on weekends with her other man, and stays out all night. Back in August she stated that she wanted to be her own person, and that she needed space. She also said that we should separate for awhile. I agreed and moved to another area for three months. I have since moved back into our home. I suspected an affair all along——and my home has become a house of pain and a living hell. Sorry for the long response, but I had to let it out. I guess the divorce is just around the corner.

Response:

And yes, I still live under the same roof as my wife and kids. She still goes out on weekends with her other man, and stays out all night.

Nobody should have to live like that. It is a cruel situation, especially if you still have any feelings left for her. The term ‘loosing it’ comes up alot here, and I probably would loose it too. Take the advice from people to at least get some counseling for yourself. Good Luck

Response:

Has anyone else out there ever had to seek counseling with medication due to the news of your spouse wanting a divorce? I have heard a few stories about how some men and women were hurt very bad emotionally, that they had to get counseling to deal wth the shock, pain and sadness. Some were even given medication to help them to get through it. The worse cases were where spouse "A" finds out about spouse "B" is having an affair, and also spouse "A" finds out that spouse "B" also wants a divorce. These cases were the most devastating. Has anyone else been through the counseling, and, had to take medication to get through it?

Response:

Tom … It happens all the time. It’s worse than a death in the family, in many cases. It’s a good idea to seek medical advise when going through a divorce. It’s a strain on your whole body. nm

Response:

Duh!  Are you kidding.  I’m on anti-depressants.  I also felt like I should sign myself into the psych. ward when this first started because I seriously thought I was losing it.  And thats the truth.  I’m not even being sarcastic. Peace Karen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone else out there ever had to seek counseling with medication due to the news of your spouse wanting a divorce? I have heard a few stories about how some men and women were hurt very bad emotionally, that they had to get counseling to deal wth the shock, pain and sadness. Some were even given medication to help them to get through it. The worse cases were where spouse "A" finds out about spouse "B" is having an affair, and also spouse "A" finds out that spouse "B" also wants a divorce. These cases were the most devastating. Has anyone else been through the counseling, and, had to take medication to get through it?

Response:

This is not unusual. The situation is a major emotional trauma (akin to the death of a parent or child), for which medication and counseling are often prescribed.  One of the first things I did, after moving our, was see my doc who prescribed it… and it helped me stay (relatively) sane.  [Rog']

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone else out there ever had to seek counseling with medication due to the news of your spouse wanting a divorce? I have heard a few stories about how some men and women were hurt very bad emotionally, that they had to get counseling to deal wth the shock, pain and sadness. Some were even given medication to help them to get through it. The worse cases were where spouse "A" finds out about spouse "B" is having an affair, and also spouse "A" finds out that spouse "B" also wants a divorce. These cases were the most devastating. Has anyone else been through the counseling, and, had to take medication to get through it?

Response: