Final Decree

Question:

I would say it varies between divorces depending upon the people involved and the reasons for the divorce. I was very happy to be divorced from my ex. However, the happiness was negated by the fact that I was unjustly ordered to pay spousal support to a woman who CHOSE to be "self-employed" and also UNDER-EMPLOYED. She played the system like a fiddle, and I got screwed in the process. So the day of the final decree was a roller coaster emotionally for me. The day I truly felt free was the day that the order for support expired and subsequently the date by which she had to appeal or re-apply also past! So she is now TOAST FOR GOOD. Again, since it was all so LONG in coming, the final date left me feeling like it was an empty victory. No fanfare, no court appearance, no recognition by anyone. Just an inner relief that FINALLY the money grubbing ex was removed from my life FOREVER. I will never forget the feeling of relief, but it was definitely anti-climactic. This is when I learned that freedom is definitely defined from within. The freedom that counts is freedom of your soul. No one can take it from you. And when you love yourself enough to let yourself be free, then you will feel much better. hth Cloaked – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I don’t even know if this post will show (on my server they don’t show), but I’ll ask anyway.  Three weeks from today is our final decree hearing in court for an uncontested divorce.   I am miserable, depressed, lonely, and just reading the "official" wording of this notice starts me on a crying jag. My question is:  Is the day of the decree with both parties in court, an anticlimax, very upsetting, or what? This will be the dissolution of an almost 32 year marriage, so naturally it’s emotional for both me and my soon to be ex husband, but he wanted the divorce after he got caught in an affair. Thanks Tispe

Response:

I don’t even know if this post will show (on my server they don’t show), but I’ll ask anyway.  Three weeks from today is our final decree hearing in court for an uncontested divorce. I am miserable, depressed, lonely, and just reading the "official" wording of this notice starts me on a crying jag. My question is:  Is the day of the decree with both parties in court, an anticlimax, very upsetting, or what?  This will be the dissolution of an almost 32 year marriage, so naturally it’s emotional for both me and my soon to be ex husband, but he wanted the divorce after he got caught in an affair.

I found it numbing.  My ex and I sat in fairly close proximity while waiting on the judge.  I couldn’t believe it was happening, nor that I was agreeing that it was over.  But I just wanted the hearing to be over, and so I said what had to be said to get it done and get out of there.  Afterward, I made some calls and met a friend for lunch.  I had a margarita (or two).  It helped to have someone standing by to help you lick your wounds, in a manner of speaking.  [Roger]

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t even know if this post will show (on my server they don’t show), but I’ll ask anyway.  Three weeks from today is our final decree hearing in court for an uncontested divorce. I am miserable, depressed, lonely, and just reading the "official" wording of this notice starts me on a crying jag. My question is:  Is the day of the decree with both parties in court, an anticlimax, very upsetting, or what?  This will be the dissolution of an almost 32 year marriage, so naturally it’s emotional for both me and my soon to be ex husband, but he wanted the divorce after he got caught in an affair. I found it numbing.  My ex and I sat in fairly close proximity while waiting on the judge.  I couldn’t believe it was happening, nor that I was agreeing that it was over.  But I just wanted the hearing to be over, and so I said what had to be said to get it done and get out of there.  Afterward, I made some calls and met a friend for lunch.  I had a margarita (or two). It helped to have someone standing by to help you lick your wounds, in a manner of speaking.  [Roger]

Does a cat count?   Oh, that’s right, I don’t have a cat anymore.   Guess it will have to be Pink Floyd, then….  AMIIGAS

Response:

Hi Tispe, After it was over, my ex-wife said, "You know, I feel like a new man….." I had to throw in a bit of humor and hope you didn’t mind. The sooner a person realizes it’s over, the better. Then you can move on in your life. Billy Dee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t even know if this post will show (on my server they don’t show), but I’ll ask anyway.  Three weeks from today is our final decree hearing in court for an uncontested divorce. I am miserable, depressed, lonely, and just reading the "official" wording of this notice starts me on a crying jag. My question is:  Is the day of the decree with both parties in court, an anticlimax, very upsetting, or what?  This will be the dissolution of an almost 32 year marriage, so naturally it’s emotional for both me and my soon to be ex husband, but he wanted the divorce after he got caught in an affair. I found it numbing.  My ex and I sat in fairly close proximity while waiting on the judge.  I couldn’t believe it was happening, nor that I was agreeing that it was over.  But I just wanted the hearing to be over, and so I said what had to be said to get it done and get out of there.  Afterward, I made some calls and met a friend for lunch.  I had a margarita (or two). It helped to have someone standing by to help you lick your wounds, in a manner of speaking.  [Roger] Does a cat count?   Oh, that’s right, I don’t have a cat anymore.   Guess it will have to be Pink Floyd, then….  AMIIGAS

Response:

I don’t even know if this post will show (on my server they don’t show), but I’ll ask anyway.  Three weeks from today is our final decree hearing in court for an uncontested divorce.   I am miserable, depressed, lonely, and just reading the "official" wording of this notice starts me on a crying jag. My question is:  Is the day of the decree with both parties in court, an anticlimax, very upsetting, or what?

In my case only one of us had to go to court, so I went.  I did call my ex afterwards to let him know it had gone through OK (he didn’t have a lawyer or anybody else to let him know).  Then I went to work, and had a more or less normal day.  Everybody is different – I suppose I could have taken the day off, but I *wanted* to maintain my normal routine – seemed to make it easier, to me.  YMMV

Response:

I have my final decree for an uncontested divorce coming soon as well. The funny thing is it will be on or about our 7th anniversary. How ironic is that? I wondered the same things as you. I am hopping it will be that final goodbye that I have been looking for so I can fully move on. Thinking about it now I am not sad and actually look forward to it, but I am afraid once I am there and it all comes to reality my emotions may get the better of me. Unfortunately, I think I am more interested in how my STBX will handle the whole thing…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t even know if this post will show (on my server they don’t show), but I’ll ask anyway.  Three weeks from today is our final decree hearing in court for an uncontested divorce.   I am miserable, depressed, lonely, and just reading the "official" wording of this notice starts me on a crying jag. My question is:  Is the day of the decree with both parties in court, an anticlimax, very upsetting, or what? This will be the dissolution of an almost 32 year marriage, so naturally it’s emotional for both me and my soon to be ex husband, but he wanted the divorce after he got caught in an affair. Thanks Tispe

Response:

Tispe said for all posterity… I don’t even know if this post will show (on my server they don’t show), but I’ll ask anyway.  Three weeks from today is our final decree hearing in court for an uncontested divorce.   I am miserable, depressed, lonely, and just reading the "official" wording of this notice starts me on a crying jag. My question is:  Is the day of the decree with both parties in court, an anticlimax, very upsetting, or what? This will be the dissolution of an almost 32 year marriage, so naturally it’s emotional for both me and my soon to be ex husband, but he wanted the divorce after he got caught in an affair.

In my case, it was anticlimatic but somewhat upsetting at the same time.  Neither of us went to court.  I got the papers in the the mail a few days later.  Opening the brown envelope was rather weird. You might enjoy reading this old post from someone named Tispe in reply to someone named Curtis. Look at:  http://tinyurl.com/kkca The sun will shine for you again, too, Tispe. Oh, and by the way, I used to post as Curtis…. Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."

Response:

I don’t even know if this post will show (on my server they don’t show), but I’ll ask anyway.  Three weeks from today is our final decree hearing in court for an uncontested divorce.   I am miserable, depressed, lonely, and just reading the "official" wording of this notice starts me on a crying jag. My question is:  Is the day of the decree with both parties in court, an anticlimax, very upsetting, or what? This will be the dissolution of an almost 32 year marriage, so naturally it’s emotional for both me and my soon to be ex husband, but he wanted the divorce after he got caught in an affair. Thanks Tispe

Response:

My question is:  Is the day of the decree with both parties in court, an anticlimax, very upsetting, or what?

It was a non-event for me, but then, neither of us showed up in court. It happened in another state with relative strangers (read: lawyers) doing whatever it is they do. I got an email that day saying it was done, and official paperwork a day or two later. FWIW, ours was "only" a 10 year marriage. How you react is completely up to you. I’d guess whatever feelings you have will likely be magnified. If you are hurt it may hurt more; if you are glad to be out of the marriage you’ll be even more glad. OTOH, if you are frustrated about the whole divorce process it may be a great relief knowing the paperwork and negotiations are finally over. I suppose if anything, that was the case with me. Negotiations and dealing with lawyers was a real pain in the neck and I was glad to get that part of the whole ordeal over with.

Response:

Can I divorce without an attorney?

Question:

    Are YOU one of the "most" you are referring to? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Brad: Sure you can do it yourself. You’ll save a lot of money…at least until something goes wrong, or you find out the agreement you reached with your wife didn’t cover some very important things (because you didn’t know they should be included). Do yourself a big favor–see a lawyer. Most handle uncontested matters such as this on a flat fee basis. I live in North Dakota and I was wondering how I could get a divorce without hiring a lawyer? I have been living apart from my wife for close to 1 year. There is no property to divide because I  took what I wanted when we started living apart,and she kept what she wanted also.We also have separate bank accounts. We both have agreed on a fair custody arrangement for our child.So I thought it would be less expensive to not hire a lawyer. Any help would be appreciated Brad

Response:

(stuff deleted) We both have agreed on a fair custody arrangement for our child.So I thought it would be less expensive to not hire a lawyer. Any help would be appreciated

It’s good that you have got an agreement, but your spouse could well turn bitter, as mine did. Then the kids turned against me (probably with her help and the grandparents). Get it put in WRITING, and get it stamped by the Family Court. Then you can still have the access and situation you both agree on right now. A lawyer is good to draft the agreement. It won’t cost you thousands, like getting the lawyer to represent you in court. That REALLY co$ts $$$$$$. You can get more info here: Or check this web page for a report on the whole thing: http://www.motzamarketing.com/go/to.cgi?l=divorce Believe me, I’ve been through this stuff. Cover your backside. Cheers, DAVID HARVEY PS: I hope you both stay on good terms. Keep the lines of communication open, whetever you do.

Response:

Yeah,…well I can pass a cue ball out my ass too. So can you,…but I’m not about to try OR recommend it. (Oh, wait,…I did try it, maybe that’s why I wouldn’t recommend it)   (..the lawyer part, I mean…) ;^)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Two people can get a divorce without attorneys. One person cannot. Beg to differ.  One person ~can~ get a divorce without an attorney, but without a waiver of service of process from the other party, that person will need to be well versed in the procedure for serving the other party with a summons or constructively by publication, and setting a hearing.  There are instructions.  [Roger]

Response:

Yes. You can get the court documents and fill them out, or pay a professional document preparer to do so. If you and your spouse agree on everything and there are no financial complications, you can save thousands in attorney’s fees. Be sure you cover provisions like Heath Care and College Tuition responibility for your children in your court documents. You will present the case to the judge and the procedure is fairly simple, just involves the "Yes, Your Honor" response to the judge re: you and your spouse agreeing on most points, and of course agreeing to the dissolution of the marriage. Takes 5 minutes. Best, donna

Response:

Very few lawyers charge $200 an hour for an uncontested divorce. As I said in my post, most handle this sort of thing on a flat fee basis. Failing to have things reviewed by a lawyer can cost a whole lot more than the cost of a lawyer. — Brett * Personal Injury/Malpractice                        Bankruptcy * *                                                               * *                        BRETT WEISS, P.C.                      * *                        Attorneys at Law                       * *                Maryland, D.C. and Federal Bars                * *                  http://www.erols.com/lawyer                  * *                                                               * * Small Business                      Estates & Estate Planning * The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only. It isn’t meant to be legal advice and you shouldn’t treat it as such. If you want legal advice, speak with a local lawyer familiar with your state’s laws who can review *all* of the facts and the law applicable to your situation. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Brad: Sure you can do it yourself. You’ll save a lot of money…at least until something goes wrong, or you find out the agreement you reached with your wife didn’t cover some very important things (because you didn’t know they should be included). Do yourself a big favor–see a lawyer. Most handle uncontested matters such as this on a flat fee basis. He’s *not* doing himself a favor by paying a lawyer effectively $200 an hour.  You know, Brett, this may be hard for you to realize, but not everyone drives a Lexus and can afford it. — Brett * Personal Injury/Malpractice                        Bankruptcy * *                                                               * *                        BRETT WEISS, P.C.                      * *                        Attorneys at Law                       * *                Maryland, D.C. and Federal Bars                * *                  http://www.erols.com/lawyer                  * *                                                               * * Small Business                      Estates & Estate Planning * The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only. It isn’t meant to be legal advice and you shouldn’t treat it as such. If you want legal advice, speak with a local lawyer familiar with your state’s laws who can review *all* of the facts and the law applicable to your situation. I live in North Dakota and I was wondering how I could get a divorce without hiring a lawyer? I have been living apart from my wife for close to 1 year. There is no property to divide because I  took what I wanted when we started living apart,and she kept what she wanted also.We also have separate bank accounts. We both have agreed on a fair custody arrangement for our child.So I thought it would be less expensive to not hire a lawyer. Any help would be appreciated Brad

Response:

Brad: Sure you can do it yourself. You’ll save a lot of money…at least until something goes wrong, or you find out the agreement you reached with your wife didn’t cover some very important things (because you didn’t know they should be included). Do yourself a big favor–see a lawyer. Most handle uncontested matters such as this on a flat fee basis.

He’s *not* doing himself a favor by paying a lawyer effectively $200 an hour.  You know, Brett, this may be hard for you to realize, but not everyone drives a Lexus and can afford it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Brett * Personal Injury/Malpractice                        Bankruptcy * *                                                               * *                        BRETT WEISS, P.C.                      * *                        Attorneys at Law                       * *                Maryland, D.C. and Federal Bars                * *                  http://www.erols.com/lawyer                  * *                                                               * * Small Business                      Estates & Estate Planning * The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only. It isn’t meant to be legal advice and you shouldn’t treat it as such. If you want legal advice, speak with a local lawyer familiar with your state’s laws who can review *all* of the facts and the law applicable to your situation. I live in North Dakota and I was wondering how I could get a divorce without hiring a lawyer? I have been living apart from my wife for close to 1 year. There is no property to divide because I  took what I wanted when we started living apart,and she kept what she wanted also.We also have separate bank accounts. We both have agreed on a fair custody arrangement for our child.So I thought it would be less expensive to not hire a lawyer. Any help would be appreciated Brad

Response:

YooperBoyka pondered a bit and then came up with… Yeah,…well I can pass a cue ball out my ass too. So can you,…but I’m not about to try OR recommend it. (Oh, wait,…I did try it, maybe that’s why I wouldn’t recommend it)   (..the lawyer part, I mean…)

Yow.  And I thought natural child birth was painful. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ;^) Two people can get a divorce without attorneys. One person cannot. Beg to differ.  One person ~can~ get a divorce without an attorney, but without a waiver of service of process from the other party, that person will need to be well versed in the procedure for serving the other party with a summons or constructively by publication, and setting a hearing.  There are instructions.  [Roger]

– Suzanne The best thing about the future is that it comes only one day at a time. –Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)

Response:

Brad: Sure you can do it yourself. You’ll save a lot of money…at least until something goes wrong, or you find out the agreement you reached with your wife didn’t cover some very important things (because you didn’t know they should be included). Do yourself a big favor–see a lawyer. Most handle uncontested matters such as this on a flat fee basis. — Brett * Personal Injury/Malpractice                        Bankruptcy * *                                                               * *                        BRETT WEISS, P.C.                      * *                        Attorneys at Law                       * *                Maryland, D.C. and Federal Bars                * *                  http://www.erols.com/lawyer                  * *                                                               * * Small Business                      Estates & Estate Planning * The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only. It isn’t meant to be legal advice and you shouldn’t treat it as such. If you want legal advice, speak with a local lawyer familiar with your state’s laws who can review *all* of the facts and the law applicable to your situation.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in North Dakota and I was wondering how I could get a divorce without hiring a lawyer? I have been living apart from my wife for close to 1 year. There is no property to divide because I  took what I wanted when we started living apart,and she kept what she wanted also.We also have separate bank accounts. We both have agreed on a fair custody arrangement for our child.So I thought it would be less expensive to not hire a lawyer. Any help would be appreciated Brad

Response:

I meant that usually, a divorce without attorneys can only be accomplished by two cooperative people. (one who doesn’t answer the complaint is "de facto" cooperative)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Two people can get a divorce without attorneys. Is that always true?  When a spouse is missing and abandoned the home? Seems to me it would be easier with an attorney but why not without? Tippy

Response:

Two people can get a divorce without attorneys. One person cannot.

Beg to differ.  One person ~can~ get a divorce without an attorney, but without a waiver of service of process from the other party, that person will need to be well versed in the procedure for serving the other party with a summons or constructively by publication, and setting a hearing.  There are instructions.  [Roger]

Response:

Two people can get a divorce without attorneys. One person cannot. If you can agree to divorce amicably, you may want to reconsider divorce. Otherwise, cover your own ass.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in North Dakota and I was wondering how I could get a divorce without hiring a lawyer? I have been living apart from my wife for close to 1 year. There is no property to divide because I  took what I wanted when we started living apart,and she kept what she wanted also.We also have separate bank accounts. We both have agreed on a fair custody arrangement for our child.So I thought it would be less expensive to not hire a lawyer. Any help would be appreciated Brad

Response:

I live in North Dakota and I was wondering how I could get a divorce without hiring a lawyer? I have been living apart from my wife for close to 1 year. There is no property to divide because I  took what I wanted when we started living apart, and she kept what she wanted also.We also have separate bank accounts. We both have agreed on a fair custody arrangement for our child.  So I thought it would be less expensive to not hire a lawyer.

Many states have adopted procedures and rules designed for non-lawyer divorces.  Check with your local Clerk of Court. They ~may~ have a package of forms and be willing to help you out.  If you can fill out a mortgage application or do your own tax return, you could probably do it using these forms.  BTW, the judge will likely go along with your custody agreement, but he or she is not bound by it.  [Roger]

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in North Dakota and I was wondering how I could get a divorce without hiring a lawyer? I have been living apart from my wife for close to 1 year. There is no property to divide because I  took what I wanted when we started living apart, and she kept what she wanted also.We also have separate bank accounts. We both have agreed on a fair custody arrangement for our child.  So I thought it would be less expensive to not hire a lawyer. Many states have adopted procedures and rules designed for non-lawyer divorces.  Check with your local Clerk of Court. They ~may~ have a package of forms and be willing to help you out.  If you can fill out a mortgage application or do your own tax return, you could probably do it using these forms.  BTW, the judge will likely go along with your custody agreement, but he or she is not bound by it.  [Roger]

…and, if you two are civil and cooperative when dealing with child care issues – make sure you indicate this in the divorce documents (in the same place where you spell out your desired or existing custody arrangements.) John

Response:

I live in North Dakota and I was wondering how I could get a divorce without hiring a lawyer? I have been living apart from my wife for close to 1 year. There is no property to divide because I  took what I wanted when we started living apart,and she kept what she wanted also.We also have separate bank accounts. We both have agreed on a fair custody arrangement for our child.So I thought it would be less expensive to not hire a lawyer. Any help would be appreciated Brad

Response:

You definitely don’t need an attorney to get a divorce.   However, your child is potentially a complicating factor.  Provided you and your wife both agree, there may not be any problem.  However, any private agreements dealing with custody and child support can always be reopened by a court. You may want to speak to a lawyer just to protect yourself.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in North Dakota and I was wondering how I could get a divorce without hiring a lawyer? I have been living apart from my wife for close to 1 year. There is no property to divide because I  took what I wanted when we started living apart,and she kept what she wanted also.We also have separate bank accounts. We both have agreed on a fair custody arrangement for our child.So I thought it would be less expensive to not hire a lawyer. Any help would be appreciated Brad

Response:

Help to start Divorce in NY

Question:

Hi… I’m about to leave my husband and I need help.  I’ve only been married for about six months but at this point I know that I made a terrible mistake and now I just want it to be over with. We don’t have a house or any joint property or children to worry about.  My questions are: what is the quickest, easiest, fastest and cheapest way to get a divorce in New York?  Where should I start?  Are there any websites that could help me? Any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated…. Thank you, Lauren

Response:

Any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated…. Thank you, Lauren

Contact a lawyer.  Cant bring the newsgroup to court with you. Storm

Response:

Cheapest way would be to do it yourself, as a "pro se" divorce – IF you two can agree to everything.  You’ll have to find the forms somewhere – like try the County Clerks Office, or something along those lines. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi… I’m about to leave my husband and I need help.  I’ve only been married for about six months but at this point I know that I made a terrible mistake and now I just want it to be over with. We don’t have a house or any joint property or children to worry about. My questions are: what is the quickest, easiest, fastest and cheapest way to get a divorce in New York?  Where should I start?  Are there any websites that could help me? Any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated…. Thank you, Lauren

Response:

Any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated…. Thank you, Lauren Contact a lawyer.  Cant bring the newsgroup to court with you. Storm

That would be the easiest way, wouldn’t it?  Unfortunately it’s just not financially possible right now and that’s why I came here for help.  I don’t think he will contest it and we don’t have any property or children … aren’t there some resources online where I could get some help on how the process works and where I should start? Thank you, Lauren

Response:

Cheapest way would be to do it yourself, as a "pro se" divorce – IF you two can agree to everything.  You’ll have to find the forms somewhere – like try the County Clerks Office, or something along those lines.

Thank you for replying … I will look into this.  Know of any good websites that could help me get started? Thanks again, Lauren

Response:

That would be the easiest way, wouldn’t it?  Unfortunately it’s just not financially possible right now and that’s why I came here for help.  I don’t think he will contest it and we don’t have any property or children … aren’t there some resources online where I could get some help on how the process works and where I should start? Thank you, Lauren

My experience has been, u still need to contact a lawyer. Tell them you want to file for an uncontested divorce.  Whole process should be 300 bucks or so. You two will come up with a seperation agreement, making the divorce legal after one year.

Response:

Thank you for replying … I will look into this.  Know of any good websites that could help me get started? Thanks again, Lauren

There is good info on the web,,,but, dont rely on it. Mostly things are county specific….and the web will offer to sell u all u need.  You can go to the county office building and learn more in ten minutes, then 10 days on the web.

Response:

Storm said for all posterity… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you for replying … I will look into this.  Know of any good websites that could help me get started? Thanks again, Lauren There is good info on the web,,,but, dont rely on it. Mostly things are county specific….and the web will offer to sell u all u need.  You can go to the county office building and learn more in ten minutes, then 10 days on the web.

One slight exception… your county may be on-line and have some info available.  My county clerk’s office has a pretty good web site. Casey Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

Response:

Cheapest way would be to do it yourself, as a "pro se" divorce – IF you two can agree to everything.  You’ll have to find the forms somewhere – like try the County Clerks Office, or something along those lines. Thank you for replying … I will look into this.  Know of any good websites that could help me get started? Thanks again, Lauren

You can buy a "do it yourself divorce kit" (or lots of other do it yourself legal kits) at office supply stores or their online portions

Response:

Exray said for all posterity… Thank you for replying … I will look into this.  Know of any good websites that could help me get started? You can buy a "do it yourself divorce kit" (or lots of other do it yourself legal kits) at office supply stores or their online portions

True, but the county clerk’s office may have a forms kit that’s county-specific and the cost will be very nominal.  Besides, that’s where the packet has to be filed, anyway. For ten bucks I got about 150 pages of forms and instructions, and the forms already had the proper county and court division names on them. Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."

Response:

Check your local book store.  Mine had a "do it yourself" divorce book that was specific to my state.  It even had copies of the paperwork you would need. Zimm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi… I’m about to leave my husband and I need help.  I’ve only been married for about six months but at this point I know that I made a terrible mistake and now I just want it to be over with. We don’t have a house or any joint property or children to worry about.  My questions are: what is the quickest, easiest, fastest and cheapest way to get a divorce in New York?  Where should I start?  Are there any websites that could help me? Any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated…. Thank you, Lauren

Response:

Dating during divorce

Question:

We are just now married 5 years. I think what I am feeling is the warm comfortable feeling you mention. But then once in a while I I get the feeling of missing being single. Is this normal?

jenn I think what you miss is excitement.  There are other kinds of excitement besides new love and passionate sex.  Find a new challenge.  Take up gardening or computer programming or start volunteering.  Whatever is new and different and interesting to you.  Then you will have something to bring back to the relationship. I would guess the new excitement for most people comes from getting pregnant and raising children.  Children are certainly a challenge. And without children it is easier to bounce from man to man.  There is more to life than chasing men though.   Sally

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [ [Hi, [ [Im a married female from NY. My husband is a great guy. Problem is i [havent felt the right feelings for him in over a yr. When do you decide [that its time to pick ursel up and get a divorce? [ [I feel obligated to stay with him. See he has been taking care of me [since our marriage. I became ill two months after our wedding day and [he has stuck by me. Now that im getting on my feet again i feel like i [would be treating him badly. But if I do stay i feel chocked. [ [HELP! Why do I recognize your name?

Hi, I have no idea why ...yours isnt familiar. As far as your marriage is concerned,if the only problem you have is "feelings" that problem can be resolved with a little motivation and working together.

We have tried therapy..Im willing to try iut again . He is not. Consider that he has been taking care of you through a long illness, and now you are coming out of it.  You were cheated out of a normal relationship, and came to see him as a caregiver instead of a lover.

God..your so right on this point. People think I am nuts when I explain it that way. For 5 yrs we are married..and I became ill 2 months after. I wish we could start oiver but we cant. I guess I have to figure how to start from this point we are at now. Now you no longer need a caregiver and have forgotten the lover you saw before your illness.

We did have fun. I love remembering how we were. That lover is still there in him.  The lady who shared that love is still there in you.  You just both need to get away from the "nurse/ patient" and let the lovers lose again!

) [I did tell him once i wanted one...he said noway. Good.  

Haha...so u agree. Thanks for your advice...I will take it and ponder much what u say.

Thank you so much. huggs, jenn - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Response:

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Any advice from someone in the know would be helpful.  I just met a woman who is fairly recently separated (August 96).  Not legally separated, whatever that means, just separated.  Wheels have just been set in motion on the divorce.  It is uncontested. We would like to date but are just a little nervous about the husband trying to capitolize on that.  Should we be? Weee--elll...it could happen.  At this point you say that it's an uncontested divorce.  Are there details involved (e.g. kids) that could suddenly come into contention because of your presence?  Is her S2BX the type who isn't likely to take the news of her new relationship particularly well?  Is he likely to start all kinds of delaying tactics, deciding that maybe he should contest the action after all, filing Motions From Outer Space? There isn't much information to go on, based on your posting. You're going to have to talk it over with your potential SO and see what kind of relationship she has with her extranged husband... Claude Been There, Done That, And Check Out This Swell T-Shirt "And in the end, the love you take Is equal to the love you make."  --Paul McCartney

It seems kind of too soon to me. This woman hasn't even begun to deal with her current relationship, how could she deal with a new one.. You are going to do what you want to do, just remember you will most likely be the rebound relationship......If thats ok with you,go for it.....

Response:

Levinson) writes: Im a married female from NY. My husband is a great guy. Problem is i havent felt the right feelings for him in over a yr. When do you

decidethat its time to pick ursel up and get a divorce? You can't be euphorically in love forever.  You can't go looking for

a new guy every year because you want to be "head over heels" in love again.  At some point a realtionship becomes warm and comfortable. Thanks for answering Sally We are just now married 5 years. I think what I am feeling is the warm comfortable feeling you mention. But then once in a while I I get the feeling of missing being single. Is this normal?   If you can trust your husband, be grateful. He is a great guy. I can trust him with no problem. Maybe try therapy to sort your feelings out.

We have tried therapy. It didnt work. I have asked to try again. He however doesnt feel we need it and wont go. Are kids involved?

No we are unable to have children. jenn - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -Sally

Response:

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -(David Caswell) writes: Im a married female from NY. My husband is a great guy. Problem is i havent felt the right feelings for him in over a yr. When do you decide that its time to pick ursel up and get a divorce? Go read the old archives of this group. This is one of the most frequently asked questions and never generates any new or interesting information. -- Real men help raise teenagers, not act like one. "Alone in the presence of God with choices to make" Avoid alliteration always. Mail me for info on removing your posts from dejanews archive.

Thank you. jenn

Response:

[Consider that he has been taking care of you through a long illness, [and now you are coming out of it.  You were cheated out of a normal [relationship, and came to see him as a caregiver instead of a lover. [ [God..your so right on this point. People think I am nuts when I explain [it that way. Well, there is the possibility that I am nuts, thus I understand what you are feeling . . . [ For 5 yrs we are married..and I became ill 2 months after. [I wish we could start oiver but we cant. I guess I have to figure how [to start from this point we are at now. That's the trick.  I think you can do it. [Now you no longer need a caregiver and have forgotten the lover you [saw before your illness. [ [ [We did have fun. I love remembering how we were. [ [ [That lover is still there in him.  The lady who shared that love is [still there in you.  You just both need to get away from the "nurse/ [patient" and let the lovers lose again! Uh . . .I meant "loose" . . . [[I did tell him once i wanted one...he said noway. [ [Good.   [ [Haha...so u agree. I am opposed to divorce except when it involves at least one of the Four As (Abuse, Abandoment, Addiction, Adultery). [Thanks for your advice...I will take it and ponder much what u say. [Thank you so much. I hope it helps.

Response:

Hi, Im a married female from NY. My husband is a great guy. Problem is i havent felt the right feelings for him in over a yr. When do you decide that its time to pick ursel up and get a divorce? I feel obligated to stay with him. See he has been taking care of me since our marriage. I became ill two months after our wedding day and he has stuck by me. Now that im getting on my feet again i feel like i would be treating him badly. But if I do stay i feel chocked. HELP! I did tell him once i wanted one...he said noway.

Response:

I know how u feel Jennifer, i have been married for a little over 16yrs and felt the same way u do for over 8, tried to get things going right but just never felt the way i did for her on our weddingday.  She is a nice lady, but u just fall out of love at times.At least i did, dont care if anyone agrees or disagrees but this is how i feel and it did not pop up just on fine day, this has been going on for years.  It just comes a time where you cant take it anymore and you gotta make a change.

Response:

Im a married female from NY. My husband is a great guy. Problem is i havent felt the right feelings for him in over a yr. When do you decide that its time to pick ursel up and get a divorce?

You can't be euphorically in love forever.  You can't go looking for a new guy every year because you want to be "head over heels" in love again.   At some point a realtionship becomes warm and comfortable.  If you can trust your husband, be grateful. Maybe try therapy to sort your feelings out. Are kids involved? Sally

Response:

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Hi, Im a married female from NY. My husband is a great guy. Problem is i havent felt the right feelings for him in over a yr. When do you decide that its time to pick ursel up and get a divorce? I feel obligated to stay with him. See he has been taking care of me since our marriage. I became ill two months after our wedding day and he has stuck by me. Now that im getting on my feet again i feel like i would be treating him badly. But if I do stay i feel chocked. HELP! I did tell him once i wanted one...he said noway.

Hi, to make. If your really undecided, maby some counceling might help the both of you. If he doesn't want to go you go and try and sort out your feelings... P.S. I believe we know in our hearts when it's over, it just takes time for it to get to our head......

Response:

[ [Hi, [ [Im a married female from NY. My husband is a great guy. Problem is i [havent felt the right feelings for him in over a yr. When do you decide [that its time to pick ursel up and get a divorce? [ [I feel obligated to stay with him. See he has been taking care of me [since our marriage. I became ill two months after our wedding day and [he has stuck by me. Now that im getting on my feet again i feel like i [would be treating him badly. But if I do stay i feel chocked. [ [HELP! Why do I recognize your name? As far as your marriage is concerned,if the only problem you have is "feelings" that problem can be resolved with a little motivation and working together. Consider that he has been taking care of you through a long illness, and now you are coming out of it.  You were cheated out of a normal relationship, and came to see him as a caregiver instead of a lover. Now you no longer need a caregiver and have forgotten the lover you saw before your illness. That lover is still there in him.  The lady who shared that love is still there in you.  You just both need to get away from the "nurse/ patient" and let the lovers lose again! [I did tell him once i wanted one...he said noway. Good.   Try Retrouvialle:  http://yarra.vicnet.net.au/~retro

Response:

Any advice from someone in the know would be helpful.  I just met a woman who is fairly recently separated (August 96).  Not legally separated, whatever that means, just separated.  Wheels have just been set in motion on the divorce.  It is uncontested. We would like to date but are just a little nervous about the husband trying to capitolize on that.  Should we be? Thank you in advance.

Response:

Any advice from someone in the know would be helpful.  I just met a woman who is fairly recently separated (August 96).  Not legally separated, whatever that means, just separated.  Wheels have just been set in motion on the divorce.  It is uncontested. We would like to date but are just a little nervous about the husband trying to capitolize on that.  Should we be?

Weee--elll...it could happen.  At this point you say that it's an uncontested divorce.  Are there details involved (e.g. kids) that could suddenly come into contention because of your presence?  Is her S2BX the type who isn't likely to take the news of her new relationship particularly well?  Is he likely to start all kinds of delaying tactics, deciding that maybe he should contest the action after all, filing Motions From Outer Space? There isn't much information to go on, based on your posting. You're going to have to talk it over with your potential SO and see what kind of relationship she has with her extranged husband... Claude Been There, Done That, And Check Out This Swell T-Shirt "And in the end, the love you take Is equal to the love you make."  --Paul McCartney

Response:

Sorry, the above post is from me, although it says "CNR."  Long story. Greg

Response:

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Thanks Greg. Points I hadn't thought about. It can wait since I don't need the emotion of sneaking around either. I'd worry she be calling at home...it can wait. -- Tag You're thanking me??  Wow, thanks for the thank you.  For once I feel I've done someone some good. By the way, I guess I should mention my ex-wife not only dated during our separation, but she had a sexual relationship with a guy.  And I'm talking about more than just one roll in the hay.  These two rolled in the hay so much they smelled like farmers.  Turns out, he's the reason she wanted out of our marriage.  I can't describe the pain I felt when I found out the truth.  I held on for so long, believing her when she said she still loved me and kept my hopes alive that we could get back together soon.  But I was just her pawn all along, someone to fall back on just in case her relationship with him didn't work out.  *sigh* Anyway, this is the big reason I'm against dating during separation.

That's understandable.  I think it's very deceptive for a couple to be "separated" and supposedly "working on the marriage" while one goes and has a relationship with someone else.  What a stab in the back! This is one reason why i don't believe in "trial" separations. IMO, either stay together and work it out, or call it quits.  No "in-between" stuff that hurts everyone, including the kids and any new partners brought into the mix. OTOH, as was my case, the divorce was long and drawn-out for financial/legal/medical reasons.  The ex and i both knew the divorce was going to happen, neither of us was trying to get us "back together".  We all (including the kids) knew it was over.  I did date a little and eventually start a new relationship before the divorce was final. But nobody was being deceived, nothing was being hidden. Something i think was important is that i know i did not "leave for another man".  When we separated and started the divorce nightmare, there was no other person involved on either side.  I'd especially advise anyone not to start dating if someone hasn't even filed yet.

Response:

Emotionally I'd advise you to wait, even tthough the "marriage has been dead for some time".  You've ben faithful for 18 years, what's a few more months? This will also give you time to become centered yourself about what is going on.  Legally, check if your state is a "no fault" state or if you need "grounds" for divorce as you do in new York.  Adultery is considered grounds for divorce.  This  may not make a difference in your situation if you both want the divorce, but you should look into it.  Good also that you're staying in your home until the settlement, as "possession is 9/10th's of the law".  Best of luck to you.   -green

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Hi all, Currently in the process of a divorce. My wife and I are still living in the same house until final settlement which thus far, haven't a clue what she's after. Anyway, word has gotten around at work concerning my situation and a coworker has begun flirting with me and I'd like to ask her out on a date. Other than the emotional aspect of juggling feelings of divorce and dating, are their any legal aspects or some ammo for my wife if she learned of this. I've never cheated on her, but the marriage has been dead for some time now. We've been married for 18 years. TIA. -- Tag

Response:

My 2 cents:  A this time, you are likely to be a mess, emotionally. You need time to rebuild your life, and should not take on another relationship until things are sorted out in your own head. And even if there are no legal repercussions, you should avoid doing anything that might antagonize the s2bx at this delicate time. If she gets wind of someone else, the daggers could come out. But that's not to say that you cannot be "friends for now."  We all need someone to talk to.  IMHO, you could pursue a this on a "lets be friends" -- basis.  I suggest telling the co-worked that you'd like to get to know her better "as a friend... and restrict it to lunches at work, at least until the divorce is final. --Roger-- I've been trying for some time to develop a lifestyle that doesn't require my presence. -- Gary Trudeau

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Hi all, Currently in the process of a divorce. My wife and I are still living in the same house until final settlement which thus far, haven't a clue what she's after. Anyway, word has gotten around at work concerning my situation and a coworker has begun flirting with me and I'd like to ask her out on a date. Other than the emotional aspect of juggling feelings of divorce and dating, are their any legal aspects or some ammo for my wife if she learned of this. I've never cheated on her, but the marriage has been dead for some time now. We've been married for 18 years. TIA. -- Tag

Response:

That happened to me soon after my divorce and I told him, no dates, no kissing, no messing around,  just friendship and after 9 years he's still one of my closest friends. One can never have too many friends. JFTR, he hasn't remarried and I have. But we have things in common that my husband and I don't , like Sooner Football!!! My DH is all right with that. I've always said he's one of my best "girlfriends".

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Hi all, Currently in the process of a divorce. My wife and I are still living in the same house until final settlement which thus far, haven't a clue what she's after. Anyway, word has gotten around at work concerning my situation and a coworker has begun flirting with me and I'd like to ask her out on a date. Other than the emotional aspect of juggling feelings of divorce and dating, are their any legal aspects or some ammo for my wife if she learned of this. I've never cheated on her, but the marriage has been dead for some time now. We've been married for 18 years. TIA. -- Tag

Response:

Tag said... Currently in the process of a divorce. My wife and I are still living in the same house until final settlement which thus far, haven't a clue what she's after. Anyway, word has gotten around at work concerning my situation and a coworker has begun flirting with me and I'd like to ask her out on a date. Other than the emotional aspect of juggling feelings of divorce and dating, are their any legal aspects or some ammo for my wife if she learned of this.

Legal troubles... maybe not. However, your stbx may react emotionally and this could really become a source of trouble for both of you while reaching a final settlement. I could give you the speech about dating someone at work... but I'm sure you've heard it before.  I did it once and I don't recommend it, even though I ended up marrying her later (and divorcing her as well). Casey "It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser."

Response:

Think she is going to try and keep the house on a continuity for the kids. How does that work? I won't get assets until she sells? What about appreciation on my half that stops now?  She's going after 1/2 of 401k. What about the 25k I have borrowed on it? Does she have to share in that, especially since it was for home improvement?

Absent any special equities, in most jurisdictions, you keep a 1/2 interest in any retained (not sold) asset, including any appreciation, unless a valuation as of a date certain is agreed upon for some reason (like one party buying the other out).  Its still your house, but she gets to live there rent-free (unless otherwise agreed)... You should try to get a set off for 1/2 the rental value (what you'd get if it rented).  Also, you should expect her to share in 1/2 the debt on the 401k.  But this is just a wild guess.  These questions are best addressed to an attorney. BTW, you may think that you're ready to date, but you asked & we answered.  IMHO, it would be unwise to fan the flames of this fire, and unfair to get your new squeeze involved B4 this tug o'war is over. [Roger]

Response:

Yeah Tag, that’s a great idea man. While you’re at it, why don’t you just hand her a goddamn loaded bazooka and help her point it at your head. People really do bring some dumb shit down on themselves.  It would seem that you’ve never been a male victim of the divorce industry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, Currently in the process of a divorce. My wife and I are still living in the same house until final settlement which thus far, haven’t a clue what she’s after. Anyway, word has gotten around at work concerning my situation and a coworker has begun flirting with me and I’d like to ask her out on a date. Other than the emotional aspect of juggling feelings of divorce and dating, are their any legal aspects or some ammo for my wife if she learned of this. I’ve never cheated on her, but the marriage has been dead for some time now. We’ve been married for 18 years. TIA. — Tag

Response:

[snip] again with someone. OK, I’ll admit, maybe a little impatient, but screw it. I’m tired of doing the right thing. EXCITEMENT is what I really need.

  So go ride a rollercoaster or take up downhill skiing.   — Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

Response:

I forgot, Toni.  Are you remarried now, or with a S.O.?

I remarried almost two years ago.  But, we’ve only been living together since last February.  He was out of the country and I visited him while waiting for his immigration process to drag on.   We consider ourselves very lucky to have finished the process when we did because INS is more of a mess now than it ever was.  What a wild ride!!

Response:

Roger said: My 2 cents:  A this time, you are likely to be a mess, emotionally. You need time to rebuild your life, and should not take on another relationship until things are sorted out in your own head.

I might be really offtrack here but it always occurs to me that people always say, "Wait!" "Don’t get involved" "It’s too soon" "You need to emotionally recover before getting involved again" "It’s rebound!" and things like that….. What ever happened to letting loose…having a good time….using protection…and well……having a bit of affection in your life! Sometimes it just *does wonders* for the self esteem and hey….if he’s/she’s a great lover…..great for the soul! Dunno – my attitude could be because i’ve just gotten home from taking my sometimes! Temily

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My 2 cents:  A this time, you are likely to be a mess, emotionally. You need time to rebuild your life, and should not take on another relationship until things are sorted out in your own head. And even if there are no legal repercussions, you should avoid doing anything that might antagonize the s2bx at this delicate time. If she gets wind of someone else, the daggers could come out. But that’s not to say that you cannot be "friends for now."  We all need someone to talk to.  IMHO, you could pursue a this on a "lets be friends" — basis.  I suggest telling the co-worked that you’d like to get to know her better "as a friend… and restrict it to lunches at work, at least until the divorce is final. –Roger– I’ve been trying for some time to develop a lifestyle that doesn’t require my presence. — Gary Trudeau Hi all, Currently in the process of a divorce. My wife and I are still living in the same house until final settlement which thus far, haven’t a clue what she’s after. Anyway, word has gotten around at work concerning my situation and a coworker has begun flirting with me and I’d like to ask her out on a date. Other than the emotional aspect of juggling feelings of divorce and dating, are their any legal aspects or some ammo for my wife if she learned of this. I’ve never cheated on her, but the marriage has been dead for some time now. We’ve been married for 18 years. TIA. — Tag

Response:

I think we have to define what we want out of life.  Yes it is "okay" to be alone.  I have been there and most times I am "okay".  Is there really anything wrong with wanting to be better than just okay? The right person can make most experiences richer.  Last weekend, I spent a pleasant evening at the local Barnes and Noble, perusing books, having some coffee, just relaxing.  It was very nice, and a welcome break from my busy life.  I wouldn’t have traded it for anything.  Except… How much nicer it would have been to have someone to share an evening like that with. — Bruce B. "The human adventure is just beginning"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – See here’s another one. Saying you aren’t whole if you are lonley, I just don’t get this way of thinking. Wanting to date or have a relationship doesn’t mean something must be wrong with the person, or they aren’t ‘whole’, or they must not be happy with themselves.

Response:

How bout companionship for starters. Feel so alone at times. Sucks. — Tag You know, it’s not a death sentence to be alone.  Even people who have other people feel *alone* on occassion.  I say,enjoy the solitutde and peace it provides and take the time for some soul searching.  You might find that you like your own company.  Then, when the right person comes along, you’ll be whole all by yourself.

Maybe you can be "whole" all by yourself, w/o the "right (or any) person". Possibly.

Response:

Maybe you can be "whole" all by yourself, w/o the "right (or any) person". Possibly.

Of course it’s possible.  You guys all know that I spent many years alone after my divorce and hadn’t even considered the possibility of re marriage.  I was content with my life the way it was.  Wasn’t looking for anything else. Especially after the kids were up and out.  It could be the same for anyone who open their mind to the idea.

Response:

I forgot, Toni.  Are you remarried now, or with a S.O.? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe you can be "whole" all by yourself, w/o the "right (or any) person". Possibly. Of course it’s possible.  You guys all know that I spent many years alone after my divorce and hadn’t even considered the possibility of re marriage.  I was content with my life the way it was.  Wasn’t looking for anything else. Especially after the kids were up and out. It could be the same for anyone who open their mind to the idea.

Response:

 They are the best thing that has come from my time on earth and that will surely hurt when I cannot share in their daily routines.

I understand.  One of the major reasons i’m still in ASD, even tho i moved out 5 years ago next month. And i’m sorry to say that, at least for me, that loss doesn’t feel any less painful (or it hasn’t yet)… I just cry less about it now….  I still sometimes feel dropped here out of nowhere, completely disoriented, and like "Where are my kids?!" Then reality sets back in, "Oh yeah.  They live there – here’s the telephone, open icq.." Do WHATEVER you can to stay in contact with them as frequently as possible.

Response:

How bout companionship for starters. Feel so alone at times. Sucks. — Tag

You know, it’s not a death sentence to be alone.  Even people who have other people feel *alone* on occassion.  I say,enjoy the solitutde and peace it provides and take the time for some soul searching.  You might find that you like your own company.  Then, when the right person comes along, you’ll be whole all by yourself.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Greg. Points I hadn’t thought about. It can wait since I don’t need the emotion of sneaking around either. I’d worry she be calling at home…it can wait. — Tag Besides, what is the hurry? How bout companionship for starters. Feel so alone at times. Sucks. — Tag

Hey!  It’s not the end of the world!  You have us, ya know!

Response:

Thanks Greg. Points I hadn’t thought about. It can wait since I don’t need the emotion of sneaking around either. I’d worry she be calling at home…it can wait. — Tag

You’re thanking me??  Wow, thanks for the thank you.  For once I feel I’ve done someone some good. By the way, I guess I should mention my ex-wife not only dated during our separation, but she had a sexual relationship with a guy.  And I’m talking about more than just one roll in the hay.  These two rolled in the hay so much they smelled like farmers.  Turns out, he’s the reason she wanted out of our marriage.  I can’t describe the pain I felt when I found out the truth.  I held on for so long, believing her when she said she still loved me and kept my hopes alive that we could get back together soon.  But I was just her pawn all along, someone to fall back on just in case her relationship with him didn’t work out.  *sigh* Anyway, this is the big reason I’m against dating during separation. Greg

Response:

Thanks Greg. Points I hadn’t thought about. It can wait since I don’t need the emotion of sneaking around either. I’d worry she be calling at home…it can wait. — Tag

Besides, what is the hurry?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tag said… Currently in the process of a divorce. My wife and I are still living in the same house until final settlement which thus far, haven’t a clue what she’s after. Anyway, word has gotten around at work concerning my situation and a coworker has begun flirting with me and I’d like to ask her out on a date. Other than the emotional aspect of juggling feelings of divorce and dating, are their any legal aspects or some ammo for my wife if she learned of this. Legal troubles… maybe not. However, your stbx may react emotionally and this could really become a source of trouble for both of you while reaching a final settlement. I could give you the speech about dating someone at work… but I’m sure you’ve heard it before.  I did it once and I don’t recommend it, even though I ended up marrying her later (and divorcing her as well).

Hey, Casey, you and I have something in common: We both married a co-worker and divorced her. That said: Do not, do not, DO NOT date anyone ’til the divorce is final.  As Casey said, your stbx may not emotionally be ready for the news and could cause you trouble. And, from a moral standpoint, it’s adultery.  And yes, you should be concerned about the morality issue…even if the reason you’re divorcing is because your stbx cheated on you.  By committing adultery against your cheating stbx, you’re lowering yourself to his/her level. And you may not care about this issue, but dating before the divorce is a good way to get a bad reputation.  People may assume you’re cheating on your wife, and they may think you’re the reason for the divorce. If you absolutely insist on being together, make sure you do everything possible to keep it a secret.  Cover your tracks.  Talk on the phone, or meet somewhere WAY out of town for the date.  But the best advice is don’t date before the divorce. G.

Response:

Hi all, Currently in the process of a divorce. My wife and I are still living in the same house until final settlement which thus far, haven’t a clue what she’s after. Anyway, word has gotten around at work concerning my situation and a coworker has begun flirting with me and I’d like to ask her out on a date. Other than the emotional aspect of juggling feelings of divorce and dating, are their any legal aspects or some ammo for my wife if she learned of this. I’ve never cheated on her, but the marriage has been dead for some time now. We’ve been married for 18 years. TIA.

Beware of some coworker who starts flirting with you as soon as word has gotten out that your are in the process of divorce.  Does this coworker know you still live with your wife???   I’d be careful.  You don’t need more pain.

Response:

online divorce

Question:

Anyone know anything about online divorces?? I found one that is either operated or supported by Robert Shapiro (OJ Simpson fame). So I figure its legit. It will cost 300.00 for an uncontested. They send it to me and tell me where to send it in my city/state. I assume there will be court costs or something, Im sure the state is gonna want something. Anyone know about what I can expect to pay total and how quick it can be done? I’m poor!

JE,    I happen to know of this site. It’s who I used to draw up my papers, and worked just fine here in Ca. Of course, my circumstances helped. We both agreed, and there wasn’t any contesting of the final papers. Total cost was somewhere around $700. It was $300 for the paperwork, $190 filing fee, and another $190 to waive appearances. I had a few snags with the paperwork, like I forgot to list the vin and licenses numbers of my vehicles on our declarations, and from the time I started the paperwork until I finally filed, a form had been superseded. I contacted the company, and they sent me out new forms. I made quite a few trips to the courthouse filing papers, mostly due to my errors, but all in all, it was a learning experience. I too am not rich, so it worked out nicely, and I had three kids, custody and alimony issues. Let me know if you have any other questions. Gif

Response:

$300? Is that for a Summary Divorce or Regular uncontested divorce? Anyone know anything about online divorces?? I found one that is either operated or supported by Robert Shapiro (OJ Simpson fame). So I figure its legit. It will cost 300.00 for an uncontested. They send it to me and tell me where to send it in my city/state. I assume there will be court costs or something, Im sure the state is gonna want something. Anyone know about what I can expect to pay total and how quick it can be done? I’m poor!

It also might not be a bad idea to run your plan by a clerk of courts office, legal aid office (if you have one), a lawyer who does pro-bono work (if you can find one), or something similar. The key being, some entity like that in your area that has experience dealing with the local Judges. It always helps to know what the Judges in your area allow and like to see. For example, all the paperwork provided by some online divorce "thingy" may be perfectly legal, but there’s always the arbitrary judicial factor to consider – the little extras one Judge may like to see but another doesn’t care about. What additional hoops do they like self representing complainants to jump through? How do they like the documents formatted? etc… Based on my own experience (which has no bearing in your area, but is given just as an example), when someone wanted to represent themself before the court, the judges would make extra sure all the "i’s" were dotted and "t’s" crossed. I wasn’t sure if it was because the Judges disliked people representing themselves or if it was a CYA thing. It shouldn’t be a big deal nor much of an expense on your part – just extra homework/legwork for you to keep from having to re-do things to suit a nit-picky Judge. — -=jd=- "What can not be remedied, must be endured"  -a time worn adage from Mexico "Who are you going to believe, me or your lyin’ eyes?"  -Groucho Marx [spam-trap: when replying, un-CLOG the "To:" address]

Response:

$300? Is that for a Summary Divorce or Regular uncontested divorce?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know anything about online divorces?? I found one that is either operated or supported by Robert Shapiro (OJ Simpson fame). So I figure its legit. It will cost 300.00 for an uncontested. They send it to me and tell me where to send it in my city/state. I assume there will be court costs or something, Im sure the state is gonna want something. Anyone know about what I can expect to pay total and how quick it can be done? I’m poor!

Response:

Anyone know anything about online divorces?? I found one that is either operated or supported by Robert Shapiro (OJ Simpson fame). So I figure its legit. It will cost 300.00 for an uncontested. They send it to me and tell me where to send it in my city/state. I assume there will be court costs or something, Im sure the state is gonna want something. Anyone know about what I can expect to pay total and how quick it can be done? I’m poor!

Response:

International Divorce – confused

Question:

Can I file for a divorce in Arkansas even though I don’t live there and never have (we lived in Boston before being sent to Europe)?

——- Maybe.  While all states have a residency requirement, in Arkansas, apparently either the petitioner or the respondent can meet the residency requirement (60 days). Which steps do I need to follow? Can I do this myself? When do you need to show up in person? Which forms need to be filed? How expensive is all of this? And, my biggest worry, if I discuss my wish to start a new life with my husband, do I need to give him the divorce paperwork…

——- An uncontested divorce, where there are no property or child custody issues to be decided, can be done ~pro se~.  Often the Clerk of the Court where you file will have a set of forms and help you fill them out.  If you file without a lawyer, all you would need to Usually, the papers are served by a Deputy Sheriff or other process server, not by you personally. Here are a couple of links that might help you  out: http://www.arlegalservices.org/forms_info/ http://www.rylawfirm.com/RYlawfirm%20Webpages/Family%20Law/procedure-… l

Response:

My technical question concerns how and where to file for an uncomplicated divorce.

does such a thing exist?

Response:

Hi everyone, I am a first-time poster, and a quite confused one… so please bear with me. My technical question concerns how and where to file for an uncomplicated divorce. What reasons need to be given? Which timeframes need to be observed? For background info, my husband is a US citizen, while I am a greencard holder currently on assignment outside of the US (for up to 2 years). We don’t have any kids, no assets to speak of, and debt in our separate names from college. My husband and I have been together for almost six years, married for almost three. In April, on a vacation in the US, we had a fall-out, with him accusing me of being the reason for everything that has gone wrong in his life. I broke down, and the only reason I got out of the situation is because one of my friends, who wanted to come over and spend the day, got me out to allow both of us a bit of time away from one another. He decided to stay and start a new life, both to get a more challenging job, pull his life together, and to deal with his depression and anger management issues. He now holds a job that leads to a career, is much more stable, and is a much more grounded person. He is living in Arkansas, while I have continued my assignment in Germany. We talk to one another every weekend. After the April incident, I went into therapy and am slowly starting to realize that I have behaved like an abused wife for much of our marriage. My husband has realized that he has serious problems that need tackling as well, but has not gathered the courage to call a therapist yet (though I hope for his sake that he will). He keeps telling me that he is so very sorry for all that happened, loves me very much, and wants me to give up my job and move to Arkansas to live with him. My therapist has cautioned me against this decision, pointing out that unless his condition is treated, his violent streak is likely to progressively intensify in both frequency and degree. Being in the safe space of my therapy, I have tentative thoughts about starting a new life on my own, learning to rely on myself, and in the process aim for an amicable divorce. The old mechanisms and abuse patterns that have been established over the years might just be too difficult to shake in our relationship. I am 24 now, and am told that with the therapy, I too could be able to put my life back together. I still love my husband very much, and many a time I wonder whether we can pull through this, forgetting and forgiving everything but sometimes I simply feel so abandoned and hurt that I’d rather make a clean cut and start a new life. What is the best way to get started and find information? I did a little research already, and would prefer a US divorce (as that is where we got married as well). I don’t want anything from him, none of his money, no alimony, we don’t have joint bank accounts or assets, and only have separate college debt. Can I file for a divorce in Arkansas even though I don’t live there and never have (we lived in Boston before being sent to Europe)? Which steps do I need to follow? Can I do this myself? When do you need to show up in person? Which forms need to be filed? How expensive is all of this? And, my biggest worry, if I discuss my wish to start a new life with my husband, do I need to give him the divorce paperwork – I don’t know what he will do then, how he will react, and whether he will not simply tear up all the forms. Any internet websites, and information, any help and support is very much appreciated. Thanks Des

Response:

Divoce Procedure in Bucks County PA

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m filing pro se in Bucks County, PA. I have already filed the Complaint with the Domestic Relations Prothonotary. Can anyone help point me in the right direction? Resources? Can’t help you, bud.  Why not ask the "Prothonotary," whatever the hell that is.  OR check out a book on PA divorce law at a local library or bookstore. How helpful. I heard lawyers say this about pro se litigants:  They know enuf to do mischief, but not enuf to get anything done. Depends on the pro-se litigant.  Most of them don’t follow through after the complaint. Some do. Ray Gordon, GENIUS

(To avoid seeing this message please filter it via the name "ADVISORY") The previous post was made by "Ray Gordon", real name Gordon Roy Parker. Be aware this individual is known to be extremely disruptive in the newsgroups he visits. He makes high volumes of posts sometimes in excess of 60 posts in 24 hours. His actions include:    - being deliberately offensive, inflamatory, provocative and antagonistic    - spamming Usenet with advertisements for his website and products    - making accusations and claims of conspiracies, insisting he      has proof, but not providing any    - threatening people with lawsuits and litigation on an almost      DAILY BASIS. He has threatened people with legal action literally      hundreds, perhaps thousands, of times. (In eight years he only      actually sued one person from Usenet. While seeking thousands      of dollars in judgement, he eventually accepted a $250 settlement offer)    - claiming he is in contact with numerous law enforcement agencies      and that action against his detractors is imminent and will be      "beyond their imagination". (Nothing has materialized after 8 years)    - contradicting himself and lying    - claiming he was Jesus in a past life Some individuals have also reported being harassed by him offline, with complaints being sent to the abuse department of their ISP’s or having their employers contacted by phone. Mr Parker is known to be 35 years old and living with his mother. * * * Ray shows symptoms of the following illnesses:    - Narcissistic Personality Disorder      see diagnostic criteria : http://www.psychologynet.org/npd.html    - Bi-polar Disorder (also called manic-depression)      see diagnostic criteria: http://www.psychologynet.org/bipolar1.html      NOTE: Ray has stated he is indeed Bi-polar.    - Obsessive-Compulsive personality disorder      see diagnostic criteria: http://www.psychologynet.org/ocdp.html * * * New readers are encouraged to familiarize themselves with Ray’s posting history, opinions and mental illness. Be sure to check out www.Ray-Gordon.com and click the "RayFaq" button on the top left. The site contains many of his archived posts. The site is NOT affiliated with "Ray", who’s real name is Gordon Roy Parker, and he has made numerous threats of legal action against it. * * * Some other quotes from "Ray Gordon": "There was no significant loss of life in those towers… NOT A ONE"    Ray Gordon, real name: Gordon Roy Parker, September 11 2001 "A bunch of *ASSHOLE* New Yorkers died… don’t grieve"    Ray Gordon, real name: Gordon Roy Parker, September 11 2001 And of course: " … I’ve warned people not to link to that site! "    Ray Gordon in reference to www.Ray-Gordon.com * * * Has "Ray" given you the impression that he runs a successful, profitable business? Or that he commands expensive fees for his work? Then you may be interested to know that he can’t even afford to pay his taxes. The IRS filed a tax lien of OVER TWELVE THOUSAND DOLLARS against him and his Mom (whom he lives with) which they STILL haven’t been able to pay off AFTER SIX YEARS. You can view the official document HERE: (cut and paste the ENTIRE link onto a single line in your browser – will require two separate pastes to get both lines onto single browser line) http://dns2.phila.gov:8080/fjd/owa/zk_fjd_public_qry_03.zp_dktrpt_f rames?case_id=970620114

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m filing pro se in Bucks County, PA. This is an uncontested divorce with no children, no property issues, no support issues. I had all the paperwork prepared by a service, but I’m unsure as to the proper filing steps, etc. I have already filed the Complaint with the Domestic Relations Prothonotary. Can anyone help point me in the right direction? Resources? — Steve

I sure don’t know all the details, but you must file all papers to be signed by a judge with the prothonotary.  At least in York county, you must file the original and three copies (one for you, one for the defendant and one "just in case").  I am told that, again at least in York, that they are very picky on the paperwork and that it may take you a bunch of tries to get it done correctly with them.   It seems like a lot of work and hassle, but when you compare $160 total prothonotaries fees in York vs a minimum $1200.00 for an attorney to file, it makes the hassle worth while. Jon – whose stbx is filing soon in York

Response:

I’m filing pro se in Bucks County, PA. I have already filed the Complaint with the Domestic Relations Prothonotary. Can anyone help point me in the right direction? Resources? Can’t help you, bud.  Why not ask the "Prothonotary," whatever the hell that is.  OR check out a book on PA divorce law at a local library or bookstore.

How helpful. I heard lawyers say this about pro se litigants:  They know enuf to do mischief, but not enuf to get anything done.

Depends on the pro-se litigant.  Most of them don’t follow through after the complaint. Some do. Ray Gordon, GENIUS http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

Response:

    You know, Ray, you are still a jerk. A guy admits he doesn’t know something and you have tojump in and put in your worthless two cents on top of it.     I think you need to take your pansy ass elsewhere, find some girl to marry you, just so she can divorce your worthless carcass so you’ll actully belong here. You certainly have a lot to say about marriage and divorce, and you have been neither married or divorced.     At least we speak from experience, you speak out your ass.     Time for you to go back in my kill filter.     Good Day. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m filing pro se in Bucks County, PA. I have already filed the Complaint with the Domestic Relations Prothonotary. Can anyone help point me in the right direction? Resources? Can’t help you, bud.  Why not ask the "Prothonotary," whatever the hell that is.  OR check out a book on PA divorce law at a local library or bookstore. How helpful. I heard lawyers say this about pro se litigants:  They know enuf to do mischief, but not enuf to get anything done. Depends on the pro-se litigant.  Most of them don’t follow through after the complaint. Some do. Ray Gordon, GENIUS http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

Response:

You know, Ray, you are still a jerk. A guy admits he doesn’t know something and you have tojump in and put in your worthless two cents on top of it.

Up at 6A, thinking about how to deal with my finances… My reply was no more helpful than Ray’s, so I’ve got no beef with him of this score… but I killfiled him (+Ronn) ages ago. In my line of work, I deal with annoying  people in 3-D just about everyday.  So, I feel justified in ignoring them on the net. –Roger–

Response:

   You know, Ray, you are still a jerk. A guy admits he doesn’t know something and you have tojump in and put in your worthless two cents on top of it.

I was responding to YOUR remarks was I not? Who the hell are YOU to tell ME where to post?  That’s funny!    I think you need to take your pansy ass elsewhere, find some girl to marry you, just so she can divorce your worthless carcass so you’ll actully belong here. You certainly have a lot to say about marriage and divorce, and you have been neither married or divorced.

Not marrying is the vogue these days; haven’t you heard of the marriage strike? You sound bitter. Ray Gordon, GENIUS http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    You know, Ray, you are still a jerk. A guy admits he doesn’t know something and you have tojump in and put in your worthless two cents on top of it. I was responding to YOUR remarks was I not? Who the hell are YOU to tell ME where to post?  That’s funny!    I think you need to take your pansy ass elsewhere, find some girl to marry you, just so she can divorce your worthless carcass so you’ll actully belong here. You certainly have a lot to say about marriage and divorce, and you have been neither married or divorced. Not marrying is the vogue these days; haven’t you heard of the marriage strike? You sound bitter. Ray Gordon, GENIUS

Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Schizoid PD The basic dynamic of this particular brand of co-morbidity goes like this: 1.      The Narcissist feels superior, unique, entitled and better than his fellow men. He thus tends to despise them, to hold them in contempt and to regard them as lowly and subservient beings. 2.      The narcissist feels that his time is invaluable, his mission of

Cancel the credit card?

Question:

Ok, most of you know my 6 month marriage (dated for 2.5 years) ended when my new bride decided she would rather go back to the east coast then live in the west with the man she supposedly

Lonewolf… I wonder if this has become a somewhat backward way of keeping in contact with your spouse. That you managed to be nice in this situation speaks well of you. However at some point you need to move along in your life and that’s going to be difficult if you keep yourself tied to this woman.

Response:

All my assets and place of residence are in different country (some might argue it is the 51st. State) from the one where the divorce has been filed. The marriage was less than 6 months long. There were no children of the marriage. I believe the only treaty in place is in regards to income tax and child support. The uncontested divorce has been signed and I await my day in court. This is going to be different as I get to go on a field trip to the US and get to stand before one of your judges. My S2BX will be 3000+ miles away. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When she chose to leave you, she also chose to leave your care. Cancel the dang card already. John, Are you divorced as yet?  If not, you are setting yourself up for being court-ordered to continue to pay, at least for some time. By all means, cancel the cards, but also consider filing for divorce. Depending on which state you are in, decide which to do first.  Talk to an attorney. Best, Bob Robert A. Fink, M.D., FACS, P. C. 2500 Milvia Street   Suite 222 Berkeley, California  94704-2636  USA Telephone:  510-849-2555 FAX:  510-849-2557 <http://www.rafink.com "Ex Tristitia Virtus"

Response:

When she chose to leave you, she also chose to leave your care. Cancel the dang card already.

John, Are you divorced as yet?  If not, you are setting yourself up for being court-ordered to continue to pay, at least for some time. By all means, cancel the cards, but also consider filing for divorce. Depending on which state you are in, decide which to do first.  Talk to an attorney. Best, Bob Robert A. Fink, M.D., FACS, P. C. 2500 Milvia Street   Suite 222 Berkeley, California  94704-2636  USA Telephone:  510-849-2555 FAX:  510-849-2557 <http://www.rafink.com "Ex Tristitia Virtus"

Response:

John, I am not sure cash or check would be the best idea.  What will stop her from spending it for other things and calling you halfway home with more hard luck stories.   Don’t they have prepaid gas cards that you can buy for her?  Just calculate about how much gas money she will need and add any if you feel generous to the total.  Once she spends that amount, you have kept your word.  She will have to learn to care for herself after that.  And you would not be on the hook to extend the limit. sam Don’t push the red button, Never push the red button!       Daffy Duck

I think you nailed it! She ask if I could help her just until she went

back to work (next week I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – believe) as she had major surgery last month. I will cancel her gas card then and tell her I will give her the needed cash just before she goes. John My 2 cents:  I’d calculate how much gas it would cost for her to get back home and arrange for her to be able to charge that amount (or better yet, send her a check), and cancel the card — ===Roger===

Response:

When she chose to leave you, she also chose to leave your care. Cancel the dang card already. (I’m not a little bitter – I’m a lot bitter!) G – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, most of you know my 6 month marriage (dated for 2.5 years) ended when my new bride decided she would rather go back to the east coast then live in the west with the man she supposedly loves. Since Sept 11th. I bought her some furniture (used), paid for most of her groceries (for a few months) and endured approximately $300.00 per month on my gas card. I cancelled her Visa (she maxed out), and closed the joint account (she emptied over time). Now don’t get me wrong, I am not broke here. I have let her drain these things in a controlled manor in hopes it would help her get set in her single life. It is now 5 months later and all she has left is a gas card that she uses for gas, cigarettes (milk she says) and booze. I lowered the gas cards limit by 2/3 to control my losses. She has maxed it out twice now. I know most of the purchases are not gas as she has a smaller car and lives just minutes from work where I have to drive 40 minutes yet my charges pail next to hers. I do not want to make her suffer but am I stupid for continuing to help her? She called me a few days ago and asked if she could use the card to drive the 3200 miles across the continent. I made a promise to her I would help her get home in the event it did not work out, but considering how much I have already covered over the last 5 months am I wrong in thinking enough is enough. She seem to see nothing wrong in taking this money from me (says allot about her I guess.) I know the answer but I will keep helping her as I am such a sap! I think I will let the balance remain at the limit until I get a bill and only pay the minimum balance just to keep things in control. John

Response:

I think you nailed it! She ask if I could help her just until she went back to work (next week I believe) as she had major surgery last month. I will cancel her gas card then and tell her I will give her the needed cash just before she goes. John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My 2 cents:  I’d calculate how much gas it would cost for her to get back home and arrange for her to be able to charge that amount (or better yet, send her a check), and cancel the card — ===Roger=== Its never too late to be the person you could have been.    – George Elliot  Ok, most of you know my 6 month marriage (dated for 2.5 years) ended when my new bride decided she would rather go back to the east coast then live in the west with the man she supposedly loves. Since Sept 11th. I bought her some furniture (used), paid for most of her groceries (for a few months) and endured approximately $300.00 per month on my gas card. I cancelled her Visa (she maxed out), and closed the joint account (she emptied over time). Now don’t get me wrong, I am not broke here. I have let her drain these things in a controlled manor in hopes it would help her get set in her single life. It is now 5 months later and all she has left is a gas card that she uses for gas, cigarettes (milk she says) and booze. I lowered the gas cards limit by 2/3 to control my losses. She has maxed it out twice now.  I know most of the purchases are not gas as she has a smaller car and lives just minutes from work where I have to drive 40 minutes yet my charges pale next to hers. I do not want to make her suffer but am I stupid for continuing to help her? <snip

Response:

My 2 cents:  I’d calculate how much gas it would cost for her to get back home and arrange for her to be able to charge that amount (or better yet, send her a check), and cancel the card — ===Roger=== Its never too late to be the person you could have been.    – George Elliot

 Ok, most of you know my 6 month marriage (dated for 2.5 years) ended when my new bride decided she would rather go back to the east coast then live in the west with the man she supposedly loves. Since Sept 11th. I bought her some furniture (used), paid for most of her groceries (for a few months) and endured approximately $300.00 per month on my gas card. I cancelled her Visa (she maxed out), and closed the joint account (she emptied over time). Now don’t get me wrong, I am not broke here. I have let her drain these things in a controlled manor in hopes it would help her get set in her single life. It is now 5 months later and all she has left is a gas card that she uses for gas, cigarettes (milk she says) and booze. I lowered the gas cards limit by 2/3 to control my losses. She has maxed it out twice now.  I know most of the purchases are not gas as she has a smaller car and lives just minutes from work where I have to drive 40 minutes yet my charges pale next to hers. I do not want to make her suffer but am I stupid for continuing to help her? <snip

Response:

Glad to hear that Mr. Bank, I mean John. Just kiddin Lori Mc

Trust me, she is not getting anymore than what I have indicated in my

previous posts. I don’t care if her tranny falls out half way across the USA she is only getting gas money from me. Actually the car is covered bumper to bumper for 4 more years so this was a bad example John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can’t keep bailing her out, if she messes her finances up let it go or she’ll never learn how to take care of herself. If  she knows you will give her money she has no need to keep her spending controlled. Lori Mc If she got a roommate she could keep the car (that I put the down payment on), or she would need to get rid of the car. Either way she is financially over her head right now. At 40 years old she has so much to learn. No I do not want her back in my life. If I had not jumped into a relationship right after my first divorce I might have seen she was not what I was looking for in a life partner. She is a good lady and I would have been happy to have spend the rest of my life with her. But a lot of cold water has flowed under the bridge since then, I took some time to splash some of it on my face and I have a much clearer picture of what I want in my future now. Fortunately for my heart and sanity she is not in it as my partner anymore. John If you stop helping her then what? Down deep are you hoping that if you are nice she will come back? Not picking on you here but I don’t quite understand why you want to help this person much more. You have given above and beyond. Can’t she support herself? That says something about her, not you my friend. My answer is cut her off.. Denise Ok, most of you know my 6 month marriage (dated for 2.5 years) ended when my new bride decided she would rather go back to the east coast then live in the west with the man she supposedly loves. Since Sept 11th. I bought her some furniture (used), paid for most of her groceries (for a few months) and endured approximately $300.00 per month on my gas card. I cancelled her Visa (she maxed out), and closed the joint account (she emptied over time). Now don’t get me wrong, I am not broke here. I have let her drain these things in a controlled manor in hopes it would help her get set in her single life. It is now 5 months later and all she has left is a gas card that she uses for gas, cigarettes (milk she says) and booze. I lowered the gas cards limit by 2/3 to control my losses. She has maxed it out twice now. I know most of the purchases are not gas as she has a smaller car and lives just minutes from work where I have to drive 40 minutes yet my charges pail next to hers. I do not want to make her suffer but am I stupid for continuing to help her? She called me a few days ago and asked if she could use the card to drive the 3200 miles across the continent. I made a promise to her I would help her get home in the event it did not work out, but considering how much I have already covered over the last 5 months am I wrong in thinking enough is enough. She seem to see nothing wrong in taking this money from me (says allot about her I guess.) I know the answer but I will keep helping her as I am such a sap! I think I will let the balance remain at the limit until I get a bill and only pay the minimum balance just to keep things in control. John —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Trust me, she is not getting anymore than what I have indicated in my previous posts. I don’t care if her tranny falls out half way across the USA she is only getting gas money from me. Actually the car is covered bumper to bumper for 4 more years so this was a bad example John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can’t keep bailing her out, if she messes her finances up let it go or she’ll never learn how to take care of herself. If  she knows you will give her money she has no need to keep her spending controlled. Lori Mc If she got a roommate she could keep the car (that I put the down payment on), or she would need to get rid of the car. Either way she is financially over her head right now. At 40 years old she has so much to learn. No I do not want her back in my life. If I had not jumped into a relationship right after my first divorce I might have seen she was not what I was looking for in a life partner. She is a good lady and I would have been happy to have spend the rest of my life with her. But a lot of cold water has flowed under the bridge since then, I took some time to splash some of it on my face and I have a much clearer picture of what I want in my future now. Fortunately for my heart and sanity she is not in it as my partner anymore. John If you stop helping her then what? Down deep are you hoping that if you are nice she will come back? Not picking on you here but I don’t quite understand why you want to help this person much more. You have given above and beyond. Can’t she support herself? That says something about her, not you my friend. My answer is cut her off.. Denise Ok, most of you know my 6 month marriage (dated for 2.5 years) ended when my new bride decided she would rather go back to the east coast then live in the west with the man she supposedly loves. Since Sept 11th. I bought her some furniture (used), paid for most of her groceries (for a few months) and endured approximately $300.00 per month on my gas card. I cancelled her Visa (she maxed out), and closed the joint account (she emptied over time). Now don’t get me wrong, I am not broke here. I have let her drain these things in a controlled manor in hopes it would help her get set in her single life. It is now 5 months later and all she has left is a gas card that she uses for gas, cigarettes (milk she says) and booze. I lowered the gas cards limit by 2/3 to control my losses. She has maxed it out twice now. I know most of the purchases are not gas as she has a smaller car and lives just minutes from work where I have to drive 40 minutes yet my charges pail next to hers. I do not want to make her suffer but am I stupid for continuing to help her? She called me a few days ago and asked if she could use the card to drive the 3200 miles across the continent. I made a promise to her I would help her get home in the event it did not work out, but considering how much I have already covered over the last 5 months am I wrong in thinking enough is enough. She seem to see nothing wrong in taking this money from me (says allot about her I guess.) I know the answer but I will keep helping her as I am such a sap! I think I will let the balance remain at the limit until I get a bill and only pay the minimum balance just to keep things in control. John —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I think you have been very honorable to her…..and then some. I would have cut someone off long ago….you are much nicer than I am! Denise

If she got a roommate she could keep the car (that I put the down payment

on), or she would need to get rid of the car. Either way she is financially over her head right

now. At 40 years old she has so much to learn. No I do not want her back in my life. If I had not jumped into a relationship right after my first divorce I might have seen she was not

what I was looking for in a life partner. She is a good lady and I would have been happy to have

spend the rest of my life with her. But a lot of cold water has flowed under the bridge since

then, I took some time – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – to splash some of it on my face and I have a much clearer picture of what I want in my future now. Fortunately for my heart and sanity she is not in it as my partner anymore. John If you stop helping her then what? Down deep are you hoping that if you are nice she will come back? Not picking on you here but I don’t quite understand why you want to help this person much more. You have given above and beyond. Can’t she support herself? That says something about her, not you my friend. My answer is cut her off.. Denise Ok, most of you know my 6 month marriage (dated for 2.5 years) ended when my new bride decided she would rather go back to the east coast then live in the west with the man she supposedly loves. Since Sept 11th. I bought her some furniture (used), paid for most of her groceries (for a few months) and endured approximately $300.00 per month on my gas card. I cancelled her Visa (she maxed out), and closed the joint account (she emptied over time). Now don’t get me wrong, I am not broke here. I have let her drain these things in a controlled manor in hopes it would help her get set in her single life. It is now 5 months later and all she has left is a gas card that she uses for gas, cigarettes (milk she says) and booze. I lowered the gas cards limit by 2/3 to control my losses. She has maxed it out twice now. I know most of the purchases are not gas as she has a smaller car and lives just minutes from work where I have to drive 40 minutes yet my charges pail next to hers. I do not want to make her suffer but am I stupid for continuing to help her? She called me a few days ago and asked if she could use the card to drive the 3200 miles across the continent. I made a promise to her I would help her get home in the event it did not work out, but considering how much I have already covered over the last 5 months am I wrong in thinking enough is enough. She seem to see nothing wrong in taking this money from me (says allot about her I guess.) I know the answer but I will keep helping her as I am such a sap! I think I will let the balance remain at the limit until I get a bill and only pay the minimum balance just to keep things in control. John

Response:

You can’t keep bailing her out, if she messes her finances up let it go or she’ll never learn how to take care of herself. If  she knows you will give her money she has no need to keep her spending controlled. Lori Mc

If she got a roommate she could keep the car (that I put the down payment

on), or she would need to get rid of the car. Either way she is financially over her head right

now. At 40 years old she has so much to learn. No I do not want her back in my life. If I had not jumped into a relationship right after my first divorce I might have seen she was not

what I was looking for in a life partner. She is a good lady and I would have been happy to have

spend the rest of my life with her. But a lot of cold water has flowed under the bridge since

then, I took some time – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – to splash some of it on my face and I have a much clearer picture of what I want in my future now. Fortunately for my heart and sanity she is not in it as my partner anymore. John If you stop helping her then what? Down deep are you hoping that if you are nice she will come back? Not picking on you here but I don’t quite understand why you want to help this person much more. You have given above and beyond. Can’t she support herself? That says something about her, not you my friend. My answer is cut her off.. Denise Ok, most of you know my 6 month marriage (dated for 2.5 years) ended when my new bride decided she would rather go back to the east coast then live in the west with the man she supposedly loves. Since Sept 11th. I bought her some furniture (used), paid for most of her groceries (for a few months) and endured approximately $300.00 per month on my gas card. I cancelled her Visa (she maxed out), and closed the joint account (she emptied over time). Now don’t get me wrong, I am not broke here. I have let her drain these things in a controlled manor in hopes it would help her get set in her single life. It is now 5 months later and all she has left is a gas card that she uses for gas, cigarettes (milk she says) and booze. I lowered the gas cards limit by 2/3 to control my losses. She has maxed it out twice now. I know most of the purchases are not gas as she has a smaller car and lives just minutes from work where I have to drive 40 minutes yet my charges pail next to hers. I do not want to make her suffer but am I stupid for continuing to help her? She called me a few days ago and asked if she could use the card to drive the 3200 miles across the continent. I made a promise to her I would help her get home in the event it did not work out, but considering how much I have already covered over the last 5 months am I wrong in thinking enough is enough. She seem to see nothing wrong in taking this money from me (says allot about her I guess.) I know the answer but I will keep helping her as I am such a sap! I think I will let the balance remain at the limit until I get a bill and only pay the minimum balance just to keep things in control. John

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

If she got a roommate she could keep the car (that I put the down payment on), or she would need to get rid of the car. Either way she is financially over her head right now. At 40 years old she has so much to learn. No I do not want her back in my life. If I had not jumped into a relationship right after my first divorce I might have seen she was not what I was looking for in a life partner. She is a good lady and I would have been happy to have spend the rest of my life with her. But a lot of cold water has flowed under the bridge since then, I took some time to splash some of it on my face and I have a much clearer picture of what I want in my future now. Fortunately for my heart and sanity she is not in it as my partner anymore. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you stop helping her then what? Down deep are you hoping that if you are nice she will come back? Not picking on you here but I don’t quite understand why you want to help this person much more. You have given above and beyond. Can’t she support herself? That says something about her, not you my friend. My answer is cut her off.. Denise Ok, most of you know my 6 month marriage (dated for 2.5 years) ended when my new bride decided she would rather go back to the east coast then live in the west with the man she supposedly loves. Since Sept 11th. I bought her some furniture (used), paid for most of her groceries (for a few months) and endured approximately $300.00 per month on my gas card. I cancelled her Visa (she maxed out), and closed the joint account (she emptied over time). Now don’t get me wrong, I am not broke here. I have let her drain these things in a controlled manor in hopes it would help her get set in her single life. It is now 5 months later and all she has left is a gas card that she uses for gas, cigarettes (milk she says) and booze. I lowered the gas cards limit by 2/3 to control my losses. She has maxed it out twice now. I know most of the purchases are not gas as she has a smaller car and lives just minutes from work where I have to drive 40 minutes yet my charges pail next to hers. I do not want to make her suffer but am I stupid for continuing to help her? She called me a few days ago and asked if she could use the card to drive the 3200 miles across the continent. I made a promise to her I would help her get home in the event it did not work out, but considering how much I have already covered over the last 5 months am I wrong in thinking enough is enough. She seem to see nothing wrong in taking this money from me (says allot about her I guess.) I know the answer but I will keep helping her as I am such a sap! I think I will let the balance remain at the limit until I get a bill and only pay the minimum balance just to keep things in control. John

Response:

    Figure the time, the gas, and let her know that the card will be cancelled on such and such a date, hence disallowing for any playing around on the way, side trips, or her reneging on going home. Call it your last time of helping her, then send her packing.     It’s cold, cruel, but real with no chance to play any longer. You’ll have kept your word.

Ok, most of you know my 6 month marriage (dated for 2.5 years) ended when

my new bride decided she would rather go back to the east coast then live in the west with the man she supposedly loves. Since Sept 11th. I bought her some furniture (used), paid for most

of her groceries (for a few months) and endured approximately $300.00 per month on my gas card.

I cancelled her Visa (she maxed out), and closed the joint account (she emptied over time). Now

don’t get me wrong, I am not broke here. I have let her drain these things in a controlled manor in hopes it would help her get set in her single life. It is now 5 months later and all she

has left is a gas card that she uses for gas, cigarettes (milk she says) and booze. I lowered the gas cards limit by 2/3 to control my losses. She has maxed it out twice now. I know most of

the purchases are not gas as she has a smaller car and lives just minutes from work where I have to drive 40 minutes yet my charges pail next to hers. I do not want to make her suffer but am I stupid for continuing to help her? She called me a few days ago and asked if she

could use the card to drive the 3200 miles across the continent. I made a promise to her I would

help her get home in the event it did not work out, but considering how much I have already

covered over the last 5 months am I wrong in thinking enough is enough. She seem to see nothing

wrong in taking this money from me (says allot about her I guess.) I know the answer but I will

keep helping her as I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – am such a sap! I think I will let the balance remain at the limit until I get a bill and only pay the minimum balance just to keep things in control. John

Response:

If you stop helping her then what? Down deep are you hoping that if you are nice she will come back? Not picking on you here but I don’t quite understand why you want to help this person much more. You have given above and beyond. Can’t she support herself? That says something about her, not you my friend. My answer is cut her off.. Denise

Ok, most of you know my 6 month marriage (dated for 2.5 years) ended when

my new bride decided she would rather go back to the east coast then live in the west with the man she supposedly loves. Since Sept 11th. I bought her some furniture (used), paid for most

of her groceries (for a few months) and endured approximately $300.00 per month on my gas card.

I cancelled her Visa (she maxed out), and closed the joint account (she emptied over time). Now

don’t get me wrong, I am not broke here. I have let her drain these things in a controlled manor in hopes it would help her get set in her single life. It is now 5 months later and all she

has left is a gas card that she uses for gas, cigarettes (milk she says) and booze. I lowered the gas cards limit by 2/3 to control my losses. She has maxed it out twice now. I know most of

the purchases are not gas as she has a smaller car and lives just minutes from work where I have to drive 40 minutes yet my charges pail next to hers. I do not want to make her suffer but am I stupid for continuing to help her? She called me a few days ago and asked if she

could use the card to drive the 3200 miles across the continent. I made a promise to her I would

help her get home in the event it did not work out, but considering how much I have already

covered over the last 5 months am I wrong in thinking enough is enough. She seem to see nothing

wrong in taking this money from me (says allot about her I guess.) I know the answer but I will

keep helping her as I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – am such a sap! I think I will let the balance remain at the limit until I get a bill and only pay the minimum balance just to keep things in control. John

Response:

The minute she gets home, cancel the card!! Then you have kept your word. Just say no, cancel the card. Lori Mc

Ok, most of you know my 6 month marriage (dated for 2.5 years) ended when

my new bride decided she would rather go back to the east coast then live in the west with the man she supposedly loves. Since Sept 11th. I bought her some furniture (used), paid for most

of her groceries (for a few months) and endured approximately $300.00 per month on my gas card.

I cancelled her Visa (she maxed out), and closed the joint account (she emptied over time). Now

don’t get me wrong, I am not broke here. I have let her drain these things in a controlled manor in hopes it would help her get set in her single life. It is now 5 months later and all she

has left is a gas card that she uses for gas, cigarettes (milk she says) and booze. I lowered the gas cards limit by 2/3 to control my losses. She has maxed it out twice now. I know most of

the purchases are not gas as she has a smaller car and lives just minutes from work where I have to drive 40 minutes yet my charges pail next to hers. I do not want to make her suffer but am I stupid for continuing to help her? She called me a few days ago and asked if she

could use the card to drive the 3200 miles across the continent. I made a promise to her I would

help her get home in the event it did not work out, but considering how much I have already

covered over the last 5 months am I wrong in thinking enough is enough. She seem to see nothing

wrong in taking this money from me (says allot about her I guess.) I know the answer but I will

keep helping her as I am such a sap! I think I will let the balance remain at the limit until I get a bill and only pay the minimum balance just to keep things in control. John

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Ok, most of you know my 6 month marriage (dated for 2.5 years) ended when my new bride decided she would rather go back to the east coast then live in the west with the man she supposedly loves. Since Sept 11th. I bought her some furniture (used), paid for most of her groceries (for a few months) and endured approximately $300.00 per month on my gas card. I cancelled her Visa (she maxed out), and closed the joint account (she emptied over time). Now don’t get me wrong, I am not broke here. I have let her drain these things in a controlled manor in hopes it would help her get set in her single life. It is now 5 months later and all she has left is a gas card that she uses for gas, cigarettes (milk she says) and booze. I lowered the gas cards limit by 2/3 to control my losses. She has maxed it out twice now. I know most of the purchases are not gas as she has a smaller car and lives just minutes from work where I have to drive 40 minutes yet my charges pail next to hers. I do not want to make her suffer but am I stupid for continuing to help her? She called me a few days ago and asked if she could use the card to drive the 3200 miles across the continent. I made a promise to her I would help her get home in the event it did not work out, but considering how much I have already covered over the last 5 months am I wrong in thinking enough is enough. She seem to see nothing wrong in taking this money from me (says allot about her I guess.) I know the answer but I will keep helping her as I am such a sap! I think I will let the balance remain at the limit until I get a bill and only pay the minimum balance just to keep things in control. John

Response:

Who can handle the paperwork in a dissolusionment?

Question:

Since my wife and I are going to split and it will (God willing) be a civilized matter, and we both agree on how things will be split up, no kids (a dog that she hated from day one, that shouldv’e been a clue), no fight over assets, and we’ve only been married 8 months, who can do the paper work (legal work)?  Does a lawyer have to do it?  Can any lawyer do it (my cousin

My rule of thumb is that there are three things that say you need a lawyer or atleast good legal advice.. 1. Kids (custody issues) 2. Large debts 3. Large assets If you missed all three and as you both want a divorce one party could contact a lawyer and split the costs between you. A uncontested divorce can run as cheap as 800.00 with a lawyer pushing the paper for you. is in business law)?  Or, can I do it myself (I don’t really want to)?  I don’t feel there will be a need for both of us to get a lawyer, we don’t have the money for both of us to get one.  Who can I get to do the paperwork?  I’d like to avoid using my cousin if I know he can’t do it, simply because I’m not ready to tell the whole family the situation.  And I realize that theres the whole attorney client privlage thing but come on…he’s family, and no one in my family is divorced (er dissolved, is there a difference?).

As to the family my advice is to take them aside one at a time and tell them.

Response:

    I never thought to look, but do you think they might have the court rules and procedures available for different states. If it’s one thing I did learn, it’s that you can’t play the game if you don’t know the rules. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you go to a Barnes and Noble or Borders they will have do-it-yourself divorce books. People can do their own divorces. You have to be careful that you follow all the local court rules. And, any attorney can do it I believe. I am not aware of any State that restricts dissolution proceedings to family law practitioners. Denise Since my wife and I are going to split and it will (God willing) be a civilized matter, and we both agree on how things will be split up, no kids (a dog that she hated from day one, that shouldv’e been a clue), no fight over assets, and we’ve only been married 8 months, who can do the paper work (legal work)?  Does a lawyer have to do it?  Can any lawyer do it (my cousin is in business law)?  Or, can I do it myself (I don’t really want to)? I don’t feel there will be a need for both of us to get a lawyer, we don’t have the money for both of us to get one.  Who can I get to do the paperwork?  I’d like to avoid using my cousin if I know he can’t do it, simply because I’m not ready to tell the whole family the situation. And I realize that theres the whole attorney client privlage thing but come on…he’s family, and no one in my family is divorced (er dissolved, is there a difference?). Rob

Response:

I’d be interested in finding out more about that one too. My ex dropped his lawyer after our separation because of his inability to pay off his existing legal bills. I want to pursue the divorce but what happens when one is not represented? I’m in the Province of Ontario. Anyone know? Johanne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well Barb, it’s in Hamilton County that I’ll be divorced so maybe I will pay my lawyer cousin a visit and let him go over the forms and handle all that biz, but I thought there was something about if I were to seek legal counsel then she had to also because of unfair advantage.  I dunno…theres a form in there that is a waiver of legal counsel.  SO CONFUSED…AARRGGGHHH. Rob Rob, Be careful — that packet doesn’t necessarily contain everything you need.  Individual counties can also require certain forms. My lawyer was agreeable to accepting all the forms I’d filled out, reducing my overall costs.  She *did* cross out certain things and write in something different, and there was at least one form not in the Ohio book that Hamilton Country required.  And she added language to other forms that protected me in ways I would not have known about. Short answer:  my lawyer added value.  Not least of which was in taking the business side of the divorce burden off my shoulders so I could concentrate on the emotional aspects. Barb Well Denise, I was lucky enough to find an "Ohio Dissolusionment of Marriage (no fault divorce) Law packet at Barnes and Noble.  It seems to contain all the legal forms and even allows me to download semi complete forms from the internet.  I’m going to look over it now and I’ll let you all know what I think of it later. Rob The court rules aren’t at Barnes and Noble…….not even sure they are online unless you subscribe to a service. I suppose if there was a legal book store in the town…but there isn’t one here anymore. Denise     I never thought to look, but do you think they might have the court rules and procedures available for different states. If it’s one thing I did learn, it’s that you can’t play the game if you don’t know the rules. If you go to a Barnes and Noble or Borders they will have do-it-yourself divorce books. People can do their own divorces. You have to be careful that you follow all the local court rules. And, any attorney can do it I believe. I am not aware of any State that restricts dissolution proceedings to family law practitioners. Denise message Since my wife and I are going to split and it will (God willing) be a civilized matter, and we both agree on how things will be split up, no kids (a dog that she hated from day one, that shouldv’e been a clue), no fight over assets, and we’ve only been married 8 months, who can do the paper work (legal work)?  Does a lawyer have to do it?  Can any lawyer do it (my cousin is in business law)?  Or, can I do it myself (I don’t really want to)? I don’t feel there will be a need for both of us to get a lawyer, we don’t have the money for both of us to get one.  Who can I get to do the paperwork?  I’d like to avoid using my cousin if I know he can’t do it, simply because I’m not ready to tell the whole family the situation. And I realize that theres the whole attorney client privlage thing but come on…he’s family, and no one in my family is divorced (er dissolved, is there a difference?). Rob

Response:

Well Barb, it’s in Hamilton County that I’ll be divorced so maybe I will pay my lawyer cousin a visit and let him go over the forms and handle all that biz, but I thought there was something about if I were to seek legal counsel then she had to also because of unfair advantage.  I dunno…theres a form in there that is a waiver of legal counsel.  SO CONFUSED…AARRGGGHHH. Rob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rob, Be careful — that packet doesn’t necessarily contain everything you need.  Individual counties can also require certain forms. My lawyer was agreeable to accepting all the forms I’d filled out, reducing my overall costs.  She *did* cross out certain things and write in something different, and there was at least one form not in the Ohio book that Hamilton Country required.  And she added language to other forms that protected me in ways I would not have known about. Short answer:  my lawyer added value.  Not least of which was in taking the business side of the divorce burden off my shoulders so I could concentrate on the emotional aspects. Barb Well Denise, I was lucky enough to find an "Ohio Dissolusionment of Marriage (no fault divorce) Law packet at Barnes and Noble.  It seems to contain all the legal forms and even allows me to download semi complete forms from the internet.  I’m going to look over it now and I’ll let you all know what I think of it later. Rob The court rules aren’t at Barnes and Noble…….not even sure they are online unless you subscribe to a service. I suppose if there was a legal book store in the town…but there isn’t one here anymore. Denise     I never thought to look, but do you think they might have the court rules and procedures available for different states. If it’s one thing I did learn, it’s that you can’t play the game if you don’t know the rules. If you go to a Barnes and Noble or Borders they will have do-it-yourself divorce books. People can do their own divorces. You have to be careful that you follow all the local court rules. And, any attorney can do it I believe. I am not aware of any State that restricts dissolution proceedings to family law practitioners. Denise message Since my wife and I are going to split and it will (God willing) be a civilized matter, and we both agree on how things will be split up, no kids (a dog that she hated from day one, that shouldv’e been a clue), no fight over assets, and we’ve only been married 8 months, who can do the paper work (legal work)?  Does a lawyer have to do it?  Can any lawyer do it (my cousin is in business law)?  Or, can I do it myself (I don’t really want to)? I don’t feel there will be a need for both of us to get a lawyer, we don’t have the money for both of us to get one.  Who can I get to do the paperwork?  I’d like to avoid using my cousin if I know he can’t do it, simply because I’m not ready to tell the whole family the situation. And I realize that theres the whole attorney client privlage thing but come on…he’s family, and no one in my family is divorced (er dissolved, is there a difference?). Rob

Response:

Well Denise, I was lucky enough to find an "Ohio Dissolusionment of Marriage (no fault divorce) Law packet at Barnes and Noble.  It seems to contain all the legal forms and even allows me to download semi complete forms from the internet.  I’m going to look over it now and I’ll let you all know what I think of it later. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The court rules aren’t at Barnes and Noble…….not even sure they are online unless you subscribe to a service. I suppose if there was a legal book store in the town…but there isn’t one here anymore. Denise     I never thought to look, but do you think they might have the court rules and procedures available for different states. If it’s one thing I did learn, it’s that you can’t play the game if you don’t know the rules. If you go to a Barnes and Noble or Borders they will have do-it-yourself divorce books. People can do their own divorces. You have to be careful that you follow all the local court rules. And, any attorney can do it I believe. I am not aware of any State that restricts dissolution proceedings to family law practitioners. Denise message Since my wife and I are going to split and it will (God willing) be a civilized matter, and we both agree on how things will be split up, no kids (a dog that she hated from day one, that shouldv’e been a clue), no fight over assets, and we’ve only been married 8 months, who can do the paper work (legal work)?  Does a lawyer have to do it?  Can any lawyer do it (my cousin is in business law)?  Or, can I do it myself (I don’t really want to)? I don’t feel there will be a need for both of us to get a lawyer, we don’t have the money for both of us to get one.  Who can I get to do the paperwork?  I’d like to avoid using my cousin if I know he can’t do it, simply because I’m not ready to tell the whole family the situation. And I realize that theres the whole attorney client privlage thing but come on…he’s family, and no one in my family is divorced (er dissolved, is there a difference?). Rob

Response:

The court rules aren’t at Barnes and Noble…….not even sure they are online unless you subscribe to a service. I suppose if there was a legal book store in the town…but there isn’t one here anymore. Denise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I never thought to look, but do you think they might have the court rules and procedures available for different states. If it’s one thing I did learn, it’s that you can’t play the game if you don’t know the rules. If you go to a Barnes and Noble or Borders they will have do-it-yourself divorce books. People can do their own divorces. You have to be careful that you follow all the local court rules. And, any attorney can do it I believe. I am not aware of any State that restricts dissolution proceedings to family law practitioners. Denise Since my wife and I are going to split and it will (God willing) be a civilized matter, and we both agree on how things will be split up, no kids (a dog that she hated from day one, that shouldv’e been a clue), no fight over assets, and we’ve only been married 8 months, who can do the paper work (legal work)?  Does a lawyer have to do it?  Can any lawyer do it (my cousin is in business law)?  Or, can I do it myself (I don’t really want to)? I don’t feel there will be a need for both of us to get a lawyer, we don’t have the money for both of us to get one.  Who can I get to do the paperwork?  I’d like to avoid using my cousin if I know he can’t do it, simply because I’m not ready to tell the whole family the situation. And I realize that theres the whole attorney client privlage thing but come on…he’s family, and no one in my family is divorced (er dissolved, is there a difference?). Rob

Response:

Try the Library, Check out the book, find the right documents, fill in blanks, type it out, both sign it, file it at the circuit clerks office, pay the fee. They will give you a court date, show up with papers, talk to judge, sign more papers, you are divorced. That’s how it worked for me .  Fee was somewhere at $150.-$200. We had no children together all bills and property already agreed upon, may be wise to get lawyer if children are involved. Lori Mc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you go to a Barnes and Noble or Borders they will have do-it-yourself divorce books. People can do their own divorces. You have to be careful that you follow all the local court rules. And, any attorney can do it I believe. I am not aware of any State that restricts dissolution proceedings to family law practitioners. Denise Since my wife and I are going to split and it will (God willing) be a civilized matter, and we both agree on how things will be split up, no kids (a dog that she hated from day one, that shouldv’e been a clue), no fight over assets, and we’ve only been married 8 months, who can do the paper work (legal work)?  Does a lawyer have to do it?  Can any lawyer do it (my cousin is in business law)?  Or, can I do it myself (I don’t really want to)? I don’t feel there will be a need for both of us to get a lawyer, we don’t have the money for both of us to get one.  Who can I get to do the paperwork?  I’d like to avoid using my cousin if I know he can’t do it, simply because I’m not ready to tell the whole family the situation. And I realize that theres the whole attorney client privlage thing but come on…he’s family, and no one in my family is divorced (er dissolved, is there a difference?). Rob

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since my wife and I are going to split and it will (God willing) be a civilized matter, and we both agree on how things will be split up, no kids (a dog that she hated from day one, that shouldv’e been a clue), no fight over assets, and we’ve only been married 8 months, who can do the paper work (legal work)?  Does a lawyer have to do it?  Can any lawyer do it (my cousin is in business law)?  Or, can I do it myself (I don’t really want to)?  I don’t feel there will be a need for both of us to get a lawyer, we don’t have the money for both of us to get one.  Who can I get to do the paperwork?  I’d like to avoid using my cousin if I know he can’t do it, simply because I’m not ready to tell the whole family the situation.  And I realize that theres the whole attorney client privlage thing but come on…he’s family, and no one in my family is divorced (er dissolved, is there a difference?). Rob

Most if not all States and Provinces allow self divorces. Look in the yellow pages under divorces for companies that will fill in the self divorce documents for you at a cost of between $45.00 to $200.00 (note they do not give legal advice.) Be ware that in some places if one party seeks the help of a lawyer to file then the other party is obligated to do the same. Something about unfair advantage….. (just a way to give the lawyers more money.) If you are both in agreement this may be the best way to dissolve the marriage. I have concluded two marriages (one of 13+ years with children) in this way. John

Response:

Go to any bookstore and go to the legal section.  There should be a book called something like "How to do your own divorce in xx state" which should include the forms you need. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where did the book come from?  If it’s simple fill in the blank that would be great! Since my wife and I are going to split and it will (God willing) be a civilized matter, and we both agree on how things will be split up, no kids (a dog that she hated from day one, that shouldv’e been a clue), no fight over assets, and we’ve only been married 8 months, who can do the paper work (legal work)?  Does a lawyer have to do it?  Can any lawyer do it (my cousin is in business law)?  Or, can I do it myself (I don’t really want to)? I don’t feel there will be a need for both of us to get a lawyer, we don’t have the money for both of us to get one.  Who can I get to do the paperwork?  I’d like to avoid using my cousin if I know he can’t do it, simply because I’m not ready to tell the whole family the situation. And I realize that theres the whole attorney client privlage thing but come on…he’s family, and no one in my family is divorced (er dissolved, is there a difference?). Rob I did my own divorce paperwork.  I bought a book for $20 with all the fill-in-the-blank forms for my state, typed them up, filed, and showed up to court 3 months later.  It was very simple.  If you don’t want to do your own forms, then I’ve seen ads in the newspaper for uncontested divorces for people without children for as low as $100-$150 plus court fees.

Response:

Curtis If you don’t mind could you e-mail me and let me know who you went through for the fill in the blank thing.  It would be really helpful.  If it’s specific to the state or something maybe not but it would give me good ideas to actually e-mail). Rob

@NO_SPAMexcite.com says… Most if not all States and Provinces allow self divorces. Look in the yellow pages under divorces for companies that will fill in the self divorce documents for

you at a cost of between $45.00 to $200.00 (note they do not give legal advice.) Be ware that in

some places if one party seeks the help of a lawyer to file then the other party is obligated to

do the same. Something about unfair advantage….. (just a way to give the lawyers more money.) If you are both in agreement this may be the best way to dissolve the marriage. I have

concluded two marriages (one – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – of 13+ years with children) in this way. I’m doing the ’self divorce’ right now.  I’m using a ‘fill in the blanks’ company that also files the papers.  I didn’t go to a lawyer so she wouldn’t feel like she had to.  My marriage was 15 years (well, the last few don’t really count) and we have one child. Basically, if the two parties can be friendly and agree on everything, it can be relatively painless.  Otherwise… Curtis

Response:

Where did the book come from?  If it’s simple fill in the blank that would be great!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since my wife and I are going to split and it will (God willing) be a civilized matter, and we both agree on how things will be split up, no kids (a dog that she hated from day one, that shouldv’e been a clue), no fight over assets, and we’ve only been married 8 months, who can do the paper work (legal work)?  Does a lawyer have to do it?  Can any lawyer do it (my cousin is in business law)?  Or, can I do it myself (I don’t really want to)? I don’t feel there will be a need for both of us to get a lawyer, we don’t have the money for both of us to get one.  Who can I get to do the paperwork?  I’d like to avoid using my cousin if I know he can’t do it, simply because I’m not ready to tell the whole family the situation. And I realize that theres the whole attorney client privlage thing but come on…he’s family, and no one in my family is divorced (er dissolved, is there a difference?). Rob I did my own divorce paperwork.  I bought a book for $20 with all the fill-in-the-blank forms for my state, typed them up, filed, and showed up to court 3 months later.  It was very simple.  If you don’t want to do your own forms, then I’ve seen ads in the newspaper for uncontested divorces for people without children for as low as $100-$150 plus court fees.

Response:

The last line of my response addressed that. I don’t know of ANY State that restricts what areas lawyers can practice in. That doesn’t mean there isn’t one……and what State do you live in????? Now, your cousin may not feel comfortable doing it if he has not done one before. I know I wouldn’t do any kind of real property law because I have never done it. Denise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But do they have to be in family law?  I’m pretty sure that if I asked my cousin would help me despite the fact he’s in bizness law.  Will the courts accept that?  I guess I’ll have to ask him, I just dread the whole family calling me after I talk to him…I have a relatively close family despite the fact that my parents and I don’t talk much…mostly cuz of my schedule not because we don’t care. Rob If you go to a Barnes and Noble or Borders they will have do-it-yourself divorce books. People can do their own divorces. You have to be careful that you follow all the local court rules. And, any attorney can do it I believe. I am not aware of any State that restricts dissolution proceedings to family law practitioners. Denise Since my wife and I are going to split and it will (God willing) be a civilized matter, and we both agree on how things will be split up, no kids (a dog that she hated from day one, that shouldv’e been a clue), no fight over assets, and we’ve only been married 8 months, who can do the paper work (legal work)?  Does a lawyer have to do it?  Can any lawyer do it (my cousin is in business law)?  Or, can I do it myself (I don’t really want to)? I don’t feel there will be a need for both of us to get a lawyer, we don’t have the money for both of us to get one.  Who can I get to do the paperwork?  I’d like to avoid using my cousin if I know he can’t do it, simply because I’m not ready to tell the whole family the situation. And I realize that theres the whole attorney client privlage thing but come on…he’s family, and no one in my family is divorced (er dissolved, is there a difference?). Rob

Response:

But do they have to be in family law?  I’m pretty sure that if I asked my cousin would help me despite the fact he’s in bizness law.  Will the courts accept that?  I guess I’ll have to ask him, I just dread the whole family calling me after I talk to him…I have a relatively close family despite the fact that my parents and I don’t talk much…mostly cuz of my schedule not because we don’t care. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you go to a Barnes and Noble or Borders they will have do-it-yourself divorce books. People can do their own divorces. You have to be careful that you follow all the local court rules. And, any attorney can do it I believe. I am not aware of any State that restricts dissolution proceedings to family law practitioners. Denise Since my wife and I are going to split and it will (God willing) be a civilized matter, and we both agree on how things will be split up, no kids (a dog that she hated from day one, that shouldv’e been a clue), no fight over assets, and we’ve only been married 8 months, who can do the paper work (legal work)?  Does a lawyer have to do it?  Can any lawyer do it (my cousin is in business law)?  Or, can I do it myself (I don’t really want to)? I don’t feel there will be a need for both of us to get a lawyer, we don’t have the money for both of us to get one.  Who can I get to do the paperwork?  I’d like to avoid using my cousin if I know he can’t do it, simply because I’m not ready to tell the whole family the situation. And I realize that theres the whole attorney client privlage thing but come on…he’s family, and no one in my family is divorced (er dissolved, is there a difference?). Rob

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since my wife and I are going to split and it will (God willing) be a civilized matter, and we both agree on how things will be split up, no kids (a dog that she hated from day one, that shouldv’e been a clue), no fight over assets, and we’ve only been married 8 months, who can do the paper work (legal work)?  Does a lawyer have to do it?  Can any lawyer do it (my cousin is in business law)?  Or, can I do it myself (I don’t really want to)?  I don’t feel there will be a need for both of us to get a lawyer, we don’t have the money for both of us to get one.  Who can I get to do the paperwork?  I’d like to avoid using my cousin if I know he can’t do it, simply because I’m not ready to tell the whole family the situation.  And I realize that theres the whole attorney client privlage thing but come on…he’s family, and no one in my family is divorced (er dissolved, is there a difference?). Rob

I did my own divorce paperwork.  I bought a book for $20 with all the fill-in-the-blank forms for my state, typed them up, filed, and showed up to court 3 months later.  It was very simple.  If you don’t want to do your own forms, then I’ve seen ads in the newspaper for uncontested divorces for people without children for as low as $100-$150 plus court fees.

Response:

If you go to a Barnes and Noble or Borders they will have do-it-yourself divorce books. People can do their own divorces. You have to be careful that you follow all the local court rules. And, any attorney can do it I believe. I am not aware of any State that restricts dissolution proceedings to family law practitioners. Denise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since my wife and I are going to split and it will (God willing) be a civilized matter, and we both agree on how things will be split up, no kids (a dog that she hated from day one, that shouldv’e been a clue), no fight over assets, and we’ve only been married 8 months, who can do the paper work (legal work)?  Does a lawyer have to do it?  Can any lawyer do it (my cousin is in business law)?  Or, can I do it myself (I don’t really want to)?  I don’t feel there will be a need for both of us to get a lawyer, we don’t have the money for both of us to get one.  Who can I get to do the paperwork?  I’d like to avoid using my cousin if I know he can’t do it, simply because I’m not ready to tell the whole family the situation.  And I realize that theres the whole attorney client privlage thing but come on…he’s family, and no one in my family is divorced (er dissolved, is there a difference?). Rob

Response:

Since my wife and I are going to split and it will (God willing) be a civilized matter, and we both agree on how things will be split up, no kids (a dog that she hated from day one, that shouldv’e been a clue), no fight over assets, and we’ve only been married 8 months, who can do the paper work (legal work)?  Does a lawyer have to do it?  Can any lawyer do it (my cousin is in business law)?  Or, can I do it myself (I don’t really want to)?  I don’t feel there will be a need for both of us to get a lawyer, we don’t have the money for both of us to get one.  Who can I get to do the paperwork?  I’d like to avoid using my cousin if I know he can’t do it, simply because I’m not ready to tell the whole family the situation.  And I realize that theres the whole attorney client privlage thing but come on…he’s family, and no one in my family is divorced (er dissolved, is there a difference?). Rob

Response:

Pension and Property Settlement

Question:

Trying to work through uncontested divorce in Indiana going  through single attorney.  Conflicting information received regarding division of pension in property settlement.  Attorney indicates that value of pension is just another asset lumped in with other assets and liabilities to be equally divided between my wife and I.  Seems reasonable.  Several friends we have talked to who have been through divorce indicate, however, that they were forced to give up 50 % of pension benefit to ex even after ex had received well over half of remaining assets.  Sounds like 50/50 division of pension is required regardless of how the remaining assets and liabilities are split.  It’s obviously to my benefit to take attorney’s advice, but we’re trying to be fair in agreeing to a settlement and don’t want either of us to feel like they’ve been cheated out of something down the road.

A related issue: Suppose a divorcing couple has a $150,000 IRA and $100,000 as home equity and no other assets. The wife who is the primary caretaker for the children, wants to keep the home. The husband plans to liquidate his share of assets to buy a home. In which case, the husband has to pay taxes and penalty on his share of the IRA. How should the IRA be divied up, assuming a 50-50 division of all assets?

Response:

Trying to work through uncontested divorce in Indiana going  through single attorney.  Conflicting information received regarding division of pension in property settlement.  Attorney indicates that value of pension is just another asset lumped in with other assets and liabilities to be equally divided between my wife and I.  Seems reasonable.  Several friends we have talked to who have been through divorce indicate, however, that they were forced to give up 50 % of pension benefit to ex even after ex had received well over half of remaining assets.  Sounds like 50/50 division of pension is required regardless of how the remaining assets and liabilities are split.  It’s obviously to my benefit to take attorney’s advice, but we’re trying to be fair in agreeing to a settlement and don’t want either of us to feel like they’ve been cheated out of something down the road.

This is something I wrote a million years ago ….. This post is about how property division during divorce can become more civilized. I am writing about property mainly from the perspective of someone living in a community property state (U.S.). As background, laws in community property states (U.S.) are based on Napoleanic (sp?) Code. The rest of the states follow English Common Law which, historically, is much less progressive with regard to the property rights of women. In community property states, the general principal is that assets acquired before marriage are separate property and assets acquired during the marriage are community property and are to be divided evenly. Exceptions are inheritances and gifts which are separate property. There is much said about the issue of co-minging of separate and community property, and how that can convert separate property into community property. In practice, if the assets can be documented, allowance is generally made for that separate property. Texas and California (community property states) both have provisions by which spouses can partition community property by mutual agreement. I suspect that other states allow for this. As long as the division is fair and not coerced, the courts will accept such divisions. Incidentally, such partitioning can be done at any time, and it need not be part of a divorce. The initial step, then, would logically be to identify and value the assets and determine whether they are community or separate property. Most investment assets are easily valued on date of separation. Homes should be appraised. Household items can be assigned values by mutual agreement and, where there is disagreement, are probably worth about 50% of retail. Cars can be valued by bluebook average of trade-in/retail. Pensions are valued according to the "time rule" whereby months married divided by months on the job = % community. IRAs and such can follow the same rule. I will write more about pension valuation below. So, here is what you can do. Create a spreadsheet that lists the items, values, ownership, etc, as follows: Column 1: Identify item – also include debts and mortgages. Column 2: Type of property (his separate, her separate, community, mixed. If mixed, give a footnote showing % community and % separate. Column 3: Value of Item (enter debts as negative numbers) – put sum at bottom. Column 4: Value of his separate property Column 5: Value of her separate property Column 6: Value of community property (note that some items will have entries in both column 6 and either 4 or 5). Sum of these columns should equal sum of col. 3 Column 7: His amount under state law = col. 4 plus 50% col. 6. Column 8: His amount under state law = col. 5 plus 50% col. 6. Sum of these columns should equal sum of col. 3 Column 9: What he gets. Column 10: What she gets. Leave these blank until all other data are complete. Now, one item at a time, start deciding who gets what. No party can get more than the sum of his/her column 7/8. If there is an imbalance, then cash needs to change hands to settle things out. Some principles about property division. Like-type assets should be traded for like-type assets. With regard to future taxes due on pensions and IRAs, those items should be discounted accordingly (BTW, this differs from state law, but it is reasonable). Along similar lines, the value of the home should be discounted by about 9% to account for costs of sale (also contrary to state law, but reasonable). Another principle is that retirement assets and IRAs should, as much as possible, be taken by the person whose name is associated with the asset. This will reduce legal costs of transferring those assets. One of the problems typically revolves around the home when home equity constitutes the bulk of assets. Here is one solution, if one party is capable of paying the mortgage. Both parties continue to own the house, but the person taking possession is required to rent the half owned by the other party. Rent should be set at 1/2 of fair market rent, and adjusted annually using standard indicators (check average for apartments in your area, or with Bureau of Labor Statistics – Cost of Living Indicators for your region). Rent should be offset by half of mortgage payments, repairs, insurance and property taxes paid by the party taking possession. To protect the person not taking possession, have all the statements and notices sent to him/her so he/she will know if payments are not being made. Agree to sell the property in 10 years. And agree that all non-emergency repairs costing more than $250 require mutual agreement. Alternatives to the housing solution are: (1) sell the house, and (2) the person giving up the house provides owner financing to the other party via a second mortgage. As above, the persons giving up the house should receive the statements. Also, he/she should provide financing using "contract for deed" whereby the persons taking possession gets full title only when all the mortgages are paid. A note for men … where there are children and a home, there woman often wants both uncompensated use of the home AND child support. This is BS. Child support is covered by child support. If she also wants the home, she should compensate you for your equity. Do not pay child support twice. On valuing pensions Money due in the future is worth less than money due today. Economists use a discount of about 4.5% per year (get more precise figures from the Pension Benefit Corp over the internet). This is different than an interest rate because the objective is not to profit, but simply to account for our preference for cash today over cash tomorrow. So … The calculation comes to: Present Value (PV) = .955 x Future Value (FV).  If I am calculating PV of $100 due to me in 2 years, then the formula is .955 x .955 x FV = .955^2 x FV. Therefore, in calculating for 3 years, the formula is .955^3 x FV. So, here is how to value a pension …. look at your pension plan book to see the earliest date you can retire with unreduced benefits. Assume that you quit work on the date of separation, and calculate your expected annual benefit (unreduced, even if you are not yet vested). For example, if you have a plan that accrues a benefit of 2% of annual salary per year of service, and you earn $40,000 with 5 years of service, then your expected annual benefit is $4,000. Look at standard life tables (see Vital and Health Statistics) to determine expected year of death for a person of your age and gender. So, for example, if you are female and age 45, and you can retire at age 55 with unreduced benefits, and you are expected to live until about about age 85 (sample figures only). Then you can expect about 30 years of benefits (say $10,000/year) starting in 10 years. So PV of your benefit at age 55 = .955^10 x $10,000. PV of your benefit at age 56 = .955^11 x $10,000. PV of your benefit at age 57 = .955^12 x $10,000. Etc, etc up through age 85 where PV of your benefit = .944^45 x $10,000. Sum up all those figures and that is the present value of your pension. Discount for taxes due should be made at your marginal tax rate (tax rate on the next $ earned). Then, allocate according to the "time rule". BTW, pension benefits can be valued through companies over the internet. The methods will be very similar to what I am describing. Also, note that, if there is no agreement to buy-out a pension benefit, then the pension benefit is paid to both parties when it acually received. Some added considerations. If you can complete columns 1-8 before you hire attorneys, you will save a fortune on "discovery". Also, you will vastly reduce the amount of subsequent arguement about division of assets. So, I am not necessarily arguing that this is a do-it-yourself deal. Even if you have lawyers, you will both save a lot of money and emotional strain. Roy

Response:

Trying to work through uncontested divorce in Indiana going  through single attorney.  Conflicting information received regarding division of pension in property settlement.  Attorney indicates that value of pension is just another asset lumped in with other assets and liabilities to be equally divided between my wife and I.  Seems reasonable.  Several friends we have talked to who have been through divorce indicate, however, that they were forced to give up 50 % of pension benefit to ex even after ex had received well over half of remaining assets.  Sounds like 50/50 division of pension is required regardless of how the remaining assets and liabilities are split.  It’s obviously to my benefit to take attorney’s advice, but we’re trying to be fair in agreeing to a settlement and don’t want either of us to feel like they’ve been cheated out of something down the road.

Response:

Sorry, but I wasn’t able to exactly follow the question. First of all, if you listen to every divorce story you hear you won’t get any advice. What a judge orders and what the two of you agree to may be two different things. So, try to decide what is fair and do that no matter what other people tell you. If you do what the two of you think is fair, what does it matter? Denise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Trying to work through uncontested divorce in Indiana going  through single attorney.  Conflicting information received regarding division of pension in property settlement.  Attorney indicates that value of pension is just another asset lumped in with other assets and liabilities to be equally divided between my wife and I.  Seems reasonable.  Several friends we have talked to who have been through divorce indicate, however, that they were forced to give up 50 % of pension benefit to ex even after ex had received well over half of remaining assets.  Sounds like 50/50 division of pension is required regardless of how the remaining assets and liabilities are split.  It’s obviously to my benefit to take attorney’s advice, but we’re trying to be fair in agreeing to a settlement and don’t want either of us to feel like they’ve been cheated out of something down the road.

Response:

Trying to work through uncontested divorce in Indiana going  through single attorney.  Conflicting information received regarding division of pension in property settlement.  Attorney indicates that value of pension is just another asset lumped in with other assets and liabilities to be equally divided between my wife and I.  Seems reasonable.  Several friends we have talked to who have been through divorce indicate, however, that they were forced to give up 50 % of pension benefit to ex even after ex had received well over half of remaining assets.  Sounds like 50/50 division of pension is required regardless of how the remaining assets and liabilities are split.  It’s obviously to my benefit to take attorney’s advice, but we’re trying to be fair in agreeing to a settlement and don’t want either of us to feel like they’ve been cheated out of something down the road.

My ex had a retirement thing thru the county he works for.  We also had another investment account thing started from before that.  Rather than split stuff we just did "you take this, i’ll take that"… Fair or not, i don’t know (or care, i know he came out ahead), but we really didn’t have a lot of money anyway..  But at least now i don’t have to go digging into his retirement when the time comes.  Kids or no kids, his living expenses are much higher than mine anyway, becuz he’s always needing to buy new things…

Response:

Attorney indicates that value of pension is just another asset lumped in with other assets and liabilities to be equally divided between my wife and I.  Seems reasonable.  Several friends we have talked to who have been through divorce indicate, however, that they were forced to give up 50 % of pension benefit to ex even after ex had received well over half of remaining assets.

If your entire work career was while you were married and that’s when you earned the pension, it should be divided 50/50.  However, DO NOT give her 50% NOW, you give her the 50% of its value upon retirement.  That way if the pension goes up or down, it’s divided correctly.  If you are still earning a pension from this company now that you are getting divorced, THAT portion of the money is YOURS alone and that’s where it gets tricky. In my case (in california), my ex and I separated at about the same time that the company laid me off to move to denver.  So, the pension is not being mucked with.  It’s up to her (I kindof agreed to this, being the bitch that she is), that she can determine when to take the retirement money, like "I’ll" retire whenever she decides.  However, she only gets half the money. Joe

Response: